The Official 'Ask Paul McBeth' Thread

[New013]

I think the excuse of drugs holding the sport back is partly correct and incorrect. Does it give off a certain stereotype to a lot of people who don't really know what the sport is? Yes. Though I think that has more to do with the stereotype of the Frizbee itself and not so much disc golf. I think disc golf just got lumped in to the hippy/frizbee culture because we're throwing discs. How can you say people that don't even really know what disc golf is also know it's just a bunch of stoners? I think it's just association with the culture that popularized the Frizbee itself.

Secondly the idea that if people associate athletes in a sport with drug use means that sport can't be big is a false assumption. Baseball players in its heyday were all on amphetamines and that didn't stop the sport from becoming our national past time; even today it's plagued with allegations of steroid use and that's not stopping it from being the second most popular sport in America. Everyone associates NBA players with drug use and it's no secret that a lot of those players smoke, that's not hurting their image.

So I think to just say well it's players faults for giving off that image and that's why disc golf isn't getting big is kind of a cop out. Is it helping no, but is it the smoking gun of why disc golf can't grow? I don't think so. Again I'm not saying it should be condoned or that it's not having any negative effects. I'm saying I wish people would stop using that as the only reason disc golf isn't growing faster, there's a lot of factors.

 

[PMcBeth]

So dgers should find a way to create a cleaner image so budwieser will sponser events? Someone had to say it. I agree and disagree. I have recently been playing with the pros at events and I don't see drugs with any of those guys. Its all in the intermediate /advance divisions were its guys that work hard all week(are not trying to make a profession) and want to enjoy there weekend. All I see is pot for the most part and pro athletes in almost every sport do that occasionnally(more then you think). I like that the pdga is not like the nfl or pga. I maybe a hippie I guess

i think we need those steps to get BIG sponsors to sponsor events, i think players will be sponsorsed before the events which helps individuals more than the sport.

 

[PMcBeth]

What do you think is the best disc that is understable and has a lot of glide

valkyrie is a pretty good one, slow but still had the record till blizzard came out.

 

[sidewinder22]

i know it's and issue and i've been a huge supporter or drug testing. I've never touched the stuff including cigs and other smoke related products, I have always cared about my body why poison my lungs or help for a temporary "good" feeling. i know a lot of the younger players feel the same way (Will S. and Ricky W) off the top of my head. You can see how those 2 and myself are pushing the Clean imagne to the best of our ability not to mention we are currently 1-2-3 in the world. I think if we want to be taken seriously the top players should be drug tested. If we want to make it our profession we should lead by example and not just push this "hippie" imagne anymore. I honestly wouldn't allow drugs on my card i won't shy away from informing a TD, Cigs bug me enough i always give Feldberg a hard time everytime he pulls one out. I'm with you 100% on this issue.

I think it's fine you guys promote a clean image, however, how many players would you have left for events if testing was introduced? There's a big difference from image, and invasive testing. I agree that the image could be improved, the no-smoking at NTs I actually like. The image problems mostly stem from the rec players that everybody sees at their local pitch and putt course, and a lack of exposure from the top players and courses to the general public. Nobody outside the disc golf world knows who Paul McBeth is, or even Ken Climo.

You may want to check into the PGA's testing which is basically just for show/image. As Andre Agassi said, "Image is everything". http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/player-has-been-caught-pga-tours-drug-testing-program-working I've heard that as much as 50% of the PGA tour use non-PEDs, and that is why their test results are undisclosed to the public.

I don't think testing is the issue with getting sponsors, obviously Budweiser was a big sponsor, as was Wham-o. I think the issue is the whole concept of, we are just throwing frisbees thing, that big sponsors don't really care for as well as a marketing numbers game that they will not get a good enough return on their investment. Disc golfers are about as cheap a market as you can get, thats why most of us got into disc golf. Also testing will increase the cost of playing, and being a PDGA member. As if most people didn't already think the PDGA membership was high enough.

Disc golf will have to prove first that there is a market for major sponsors. Like good nationally televised ratings must be shown before any expensive house cleaning can be feasibly done. Testing is more for the top players than anyone else, and finding ways around those tests. The controversy and speculation attract more interest from non-athletes than anything else. The MLB benefited from the home run race that was littered with PEDs. Who would know anything about cycling without Lance Armstrong? There's also the Tiger Woods speculation about PEDs? Who really cares about PEDs in disc golf anyways? I don't think there is a rampant PED issue in the PDGA, and cracking down on non-peds is a big joke, like the war on drugs. ESPN headlines read "PDGA cracks down on pot while the rest of the world relaxes pot laws". "PDGA says no to throwing frisbees on PEDs."
*roll on snare*
*everybody laughs*

 

[Buchajs1]

valkyrie is a pretty good one, slow but still had the record till blizzard came out.

Thx, I might have to pick up one, what plastic would you recommend

 

[PMcBeth]

I think the excuse of drugs holding the sport back is partly correct and incorrect. Does it give off a certain stereotype to a lot of people who don't really know what the sport is? Yes. Though I think that has more to do with the stereotype of the Frizbee itself and not so much disc golf. I think disc golf just got lumped in to the hippy/frizbee culture because we're throwing discs. How can you say people that don't even really know what disc golf is also know it's just a bunch of stoners? I think it's just association with the culture that popularized the Frizbee itself.

Secondly the idea that if people associate athletes in a sport with drug use means that sport can't be big is a false assumption. Baseball players in its heyday were all on amphetamines and that didn't stop the sport from becoming our national past time; even today it's plagued with allegations of steroid use and that's not stopping it from being the second most popular sport in America. Everyone associates NBA players with drug use and it's no secret that a lot of those players smoke, that's not hurting their image.

So I think to just say well it's players faults for giving off that image and that's why disc golf isn't getting big is kind of a cop out. Is it helping no, but is it the smoking gun of why disc golf can't grow? I don't think so. Again I'm not saying it should be condoned or that it's not having any negative effects. I'm saying I wish people would stop using that as the only reason disc golf isn't growing faster, there's a lot of factors.

i would never say it THE reason, but there are many reasons but that is just one to help move the sport forward. the reason i think that one is the one that gets brought up the most is because it is disc golfs main stereotype. if we can move away from that the other problems shouldn't be a problem to move past.

 

[PMcBeth]

I think it's fine you guys promote a clean image, however, how many players would you have left for events if testing was introduced? There's a big difference from image, and invasive testing. I agree that the image could be improved, the no-smoking at NTs I actually like. The image problems mostly stem from the rec players that everybody sees at their local pitch and putt course, and a lack of exposure from the top players and courses to the general public. Nobody outside the disc golf world knows who Paul McBeth is, or even Ken Climo.

You may want to check into the PGA's testing which is basically just for show/image. As Andre Agassi said, "Image is everything". http://www.golf.com/tour-and-news/player-has-been-caught-pga-tours-drug-testing-program-working I've heard that as much as 50% of the PGA tour use non-PEDs, and that is why their test results are undisclosed to the public.

I don't think testing is the issue with getting sponsors, obviously Budweiser was a big sponsor, as was Wham-o. I think the issue is the whole concept of, we are just throwing frisbees thing, that big sponsors don't really care for as well as a marketing numbers game that they will not get a good enough return on their investment. Disc golfers are about as cheap a market as you can get, thats why most of us got into disc golf. Also testing will increase the cost of playing, and being a PDGA member. As if most people didn't already think the PDGA membership was high enough.

Disc golf will have to prove first that there is a market for major sponsors. Like good nationally televised ratings must be shown before any expensive house cleaning can be feasibly done. Testing is more for the top players than anyone else, and finding ways around those tests. The controversy and speculation attract more interest from non-athletes than anything else. The MLB benefited from the home run race that was littered with PEDs. Who would know anything about cycling without Lance Armstrong? There's also the Tiger Woods speculation about PEDs? Who really cares about PEDs in disc golf anyways? I don't think there is a rampant PED issue in the PDGA, and cracking down on non-peds is a big joke, like the war on drugs. ESPN headlines read "PDGA cracks down on pot while the rest of the world relaxes pot laws". "PDGA says no to throwing frisbees on PEDs."
*roll on snare*
*everybody laughs*

if pros really wanted to play professionally i'm sure most will quit smoking for the chance to live their dream job.

sorry for the short answer

 

[PMcBeth]

Thx, I might have to pick up one, what plastic would you recommend

whatever you perfer mostly they all fly similar the but i would suggest chamiom or star

 

[Pwingles]

Waiting patiently for "why cant we leave dg the way it is?" guy...

Although it is only 1pm is, might be too early for them..opcorn:

 

[811rv]

Bolf have about 15,700 courses in USA, 25.7 million players and 463 million rounds played (2011 figures, peak year was 2000 with 518 million rounds). Disc golf have like about 4,000 courses, how many players? and how many rounds played? We definitely need to keep building new courses so we have more players, "Build it and they will come..." kind of thing. Focus on grassroots kind of thing to the point where market will be attractive enough for sponsors. We need growing fan base that loves to follow top players.

It is true that PGA Tour have like $5 or so million in purse basically almost every weekend due to big sponsors as they have huge fan base. We need to get execs of big companies to play disc golf rather than bolf so they can start to sponsor us more. "Let's make business deals at disc golf!"

 

[tbird888]

Bolf have about 15,700 courses in USA, 25.7 million players and 463 million rounds played (2011 figures, peak year was 2000 with 518 million rounds). Disc golf have like about 4,000 courses, how many players? and how many rounds played? We definitely need to keep building new courses so we have more players, "Build it and they will come..." kind of thing. Focus on grassroots kind of thing to the point where market will be attractive enough for sponsors. We need growing fan base that loves to follow top players.

It is true that PGA Tour have like $5 or so million in purse basically almost every weekend due to big sponsors as they have huge fan base. We need to get execs of big companies to play disc golf rather than bolf so they can start to sponsor us more. "Let's make business deals at disc golf!"

Execs won't ever play disc golf unless there's a clubhouse they can drink at and use to clean up to go back to work.

 

[Buchajs1]

whatever you perfer mostly they all fly similar the but i would suggest chamiom or star

Thank you

 

[Deebo4Discs]

Paul,

How do you feel about private/pay-to-play courses? 99.99% of the courses here in Maine are private and ptp. I enjoy the fact that everyone there is to play disc golf and not picnic, walk their dog, etc...

 

[sidewinder22]

if pros really wanted to play professionally i'm sure most will quit smoking for the chance to live their dream job.

sorry for the short answer

 

[BirdmanCR]

I agree if disc golf is going to go anywhere it will have to have rules of similar sports(That make alot of money). Drug testing, fines for breaking rules, and larger payouts.

 

[wake911]

I think the excuse of drugs holding the sport back is partly correct and incorrect. Does it give off a certain stereotype to a lot of people who don't really know what the sport is? Yes. Though I think that has more to do with the stereotype of the Frizbee itself and not so much disc golf. I think disc golf just got lumped in to the hippy/frizbee culture because we're throwing discs. How can you say people that don't even really know what disc golf is also know it's just a bunch of stoners? I think it's just association with the culture that popularized the Frizbee itself.

Secondly the idea that if people associate athletes in a sport with drug use means that sport can't be big is a false assumption. Baseball players in its heyday were all on amphetamines and that didn't stop the sport from becoming our national past time; even today it's plagued with allegations of steroid use and that's not stopping it from being the second most popular sport in America. Everyone associates NBA players with drug use and it's no secret that a lot of those players smoke, that's not hurting their image.

So I think to just say well it's players faults for giving off that image and that's why disc golf isn't getting big is kind of a cop out. Is it helping no, but is it the smoking gun of why disc golf can't grow? I don't think so. Again I'm not saying it should be condoned or that it's not having any negative effects. I'm saying I wish people would stop using that as the only reason disc golf isn't growing faster, there's a lot of factors.

I agree with a majority of this. But, other sports have had to deal with this as well. The 2 biggest I can think of, that pertain to us, is Skateboarding and Snowboarding. Both are relatively inexpensive (especially skateboarding). Both have an image of "slacker", "stoner", etc. But both have become HUGE!!!.

How did they do it? How did they shed those negative images? Or did they just ignore, and push the stronger more positive images (Tony Hawk is a pretty good "straight"(as in not stoner) skater, that helped the image of the sport to the common public)

Is it really on the shoulders of the folks like Paul, Ricky, Will, and other younger, "clean" players? Or even older players that also are clean? Is it a matter of getting a rich guy to buy space on ESPN 2 to play a 1 hr edited worlds review (or some other very well put together show) to get the word out to folks, and show how cool it is?

I'm going to try to figure out a tournament this year in Indy to get my cousin's husband to come take some video of. He works for a local TV station as a camera guy, so he might be able to edit together a 2 minute section or something like that. I figure, that can't hurt right? damn, honestly an Ice Bowl would be the best place to do it, since it's for charity and would help out with creating a "good image"..... might have to text him about this.

 

[_MTL_]

I can prove out sport infact does have a drug problem in one sentence.

We label players who are clean instead of the other way around.

The biggest overall issue facing our sport is numbers. We simply don't have enough people who play or are interested in it to generate support. There are multiple factos that are in play that affect those numbers, drugs / image being one of them.

 

[Cgkdisc]

The problem for the pro development of the sport is lack of spectators. One would be hard pressed to prove that our lack of spectators is directly related to a perception the sport is stoner heavy especially when getting spectators is not a problem for rock groups perceived to be stoners and more. It's primarily the perceived entertainment value that attracts spectators whatever the activity. DG doesn't cut it for spectators in comparison to actually playing it versus watching.

 

[tbird888]

The spectators that would watch are playing at the same event. If there were separate events, I imagine an audience would start appearing.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Ams who cash are many times "held hostage" as spectators to watch a Final 9 before they can get their merch prizes.