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The Perfect Anhyzer/Hyzer

This off season I increased my distance from 280' with a max of 315' to an average of 310' with a max of 350'. All of this was done with forum advice from mainly SW22 and HUB. I am new to the game and willing to try new things. I tried the OP's grip suggestions and instantly lost all the gain I made this winter. It did not work for me .
 
I'm still trying to figure out how we have 11 pages arguing grip with someone who makes at 300.
 
This thread, the Pro's switching sponsors thread, and the damn ADGT thread...all train wrecks that I keep going back to. I need a new hobby.
 
Look, anything is possible. I agree, without video it's hard to say exactly what is happening at the most energetic moment o the drive, but I still doubt it's as you describe. Take my regular, non-tilted drive. If I throw it right, it leaves my grip flat to the ground. If I've got enough snap, it flies dead straight (ish) fand fades for around 300' total distance. My Wave doesn't tend to S-curve with good snap. Because the disc is rarely more than 4 or 5' above the ground for its entire flight, and the visual cues, I'd say it's not nose up or off axis. When I have screwed up and release nose up at an angle other than my arm is moving, it climbs immediately, quickly stalling out, and plummets to the left. When I mess my drive up, I'm far more likely to just have my arm angle too high (reaching back a little low and releasing higher) and the disc goes too high. Though it's angled up and it's flight is shorter, I wouldn't call that nose up because I did release the disc on its own plane, it's just the plane is angled too high.
Nose angle is relative to its trajectory and can change throughout its flight. You can throw upward with the nose down(this is where the real distance is, throwing nose down through the apex of flight). You can throw downward with the nose up(air bounce/break). If you throw a flat trajectory with the disc level, it's going to rise because the nose is not down. Drivers typically require a couple degrees nose down to remain on a level trajectory as has been discussed in the articles linked in your understability thread and shown in the wind tunnel results.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/angles.shtml
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/distancelines.shtml

the moment the disc leaves the grip. for me, it's at or just before 3 O'clock, give or take a few minutes. Earlier and its slipped out of my grip, Later and I've griplocked it.
This is common for having sequence/acceleration and posture issues aka strong arming/slipping. You should be later than 3 preferably around 4 to 5 at the rip. This is not something you achieve by trying to hold on later, but it is a byproduct of the proper swing mechanics to bring the edge of the disc around forward further.

I only mentioned rolling the wrist under by way of acknowledging that some accomplish anhyzer doing it. I'm not one of them.
I agree with you that in your OP stated you don't roll the wrist to change shots. However your post later mentioned you get some spin by rolling the wrist. Now again you say you don't roll. So?

To be clear, when you say some people roll under for anhyzer, you do mean pronate? What happens if you roll over/supinate? Would it go flat, hyzer, or roller?

The angles in your reachback are opposite of what pretty much everybody considers them.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/telegraphing.shtml

Timing anything to occur during an instant of the the split second it takes to drive is nigh impossible for me. Things like turning the wrist under, or not tightening your grip until right at the hit, while I'm sure some do these things, are beyond me.
IMO this is because your weightshift sequence and timing mechanics are incorrect.

My philosophy is get the set up right, slowly start things moving in the right sequence, then explode. Currently I'm driving from a stand still instead of using a run-up or x-step. I used an x-step for a while when I was learning, but I wasn't happy with my lack of accuracy, so I figured I'd back off to a standing drive until I had it optimized. When I hit the wall that says I'm not going to improve until I add in an x-step, I'll work on that, but I definitely think there's benefit in maximizing your standing drive first.
That is a fantastic philosophy, I also believe in it! :thmbup:

Now if only you would change your philosophy on the mechanics. :\

I think a lot of new players could benefit from doing this.

The order i do things is:
1. Line up my feet, hips and shoulders in line with my target
2. Extend my disc arm towards the target and set my grip and arm and disc angle
3. reach back 180 degrees, weight on the back foot, rotating the hips and off shoulder back.
4. Pause and verify everything is correct such as balance, grip firmness, arm height and disc angle.
5. Start shifting the hips forward and opening them up, slowly.
6 Begin pulling with the shoulder,slowly, starting the torso turning, weight starts to shift forward.
7 Accelerate with the elbow, weight shifts onto forward leg. At this point I know what's happening, but I'm not able to affect it much because it's happening too fast. The elbow reaches its limit and the forearm is catapulted around horizontally. Just before the arm reaches the apex, the wrist opens up and the disc rips out of the grip.
8. Follow through with rotation until back leg is now in front and off arm is pointing at the target.
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with some of ^ that.

Firstly the setup stance should be slightly closed with the front foot heel inline to the rear toes.

Secondly at #4 you are going to lose a lot of power and accuracy and momentum pausing in the transition between the backswing and forward swing, if you were fully loaded from the ground up it's one continuous fluid move back and forth that can't be stopped. You never see a golfer stop at the top of the backswing or a pitcher, pretty much every sport has a continuous windup phase and transition forward. Pelvis should be shifting forward during the end of backswing into the transition and squatting into the rear leg with the pelvis internally rotating into the rear femur, then the rear plantar flexion drives the rear femur/hip opening/externally rotates turning the pelvis as most of your weight shifts into a braced front leg from toe to heel, the pelvis turns internally into the braced front femur with the front knee straightening, putting most of your weight on the front hip and clearing it out of the way.

The way you have labelled the rest of the upstairs through #7 is in sequential order, but they each should overlap some in a fluid swing. The weightshift is also late in your sequence. A scary part is how you mention the elbow reaching it's limit and the forearm coming around it, so it sounds like your elbow is a static pivot point(If that is the case I suspect that is where your elbow pain you mentioned sometimes happens in previous thread before comes from). The shoulder/elbow should clear out to the right some to release the lower arm and disc straight through forward to the target for the most part(there is some arcing outside mostly when the disc is brought around at the end).

8. Follow through balanced on the front leg with the rear leg moving forward behind the front leg as the arm swings all the way around. The rear shoulder should finish straight through inline(both shoulders inline) to the target line apex, while the rear arm may vary from 60 to 180 past the target line apex. The rear leg may get pulled through as well, depends on the shot and balance and momentum.

There is a bit more happening during the throw, but what the hell do I know? I'm just a loud mouthed shnook.
 
Nose angle is relative to its trajectory and can change throughout its flight. You can throw upward with the nose down(this is where the real distance is, throwing nose down through the apex of flight). You can throw downward with the nose up(air bounce/break). If you throw a flat trajectory with the disc level, it's going to rise because the nose is not down. Drivers typically require a couple degrees nose down to remain on a level trajectory as has been discussed in the articles linked in your understability thread and shown in the wind tunnel results.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/angles.shtml
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/distancelines.shtml


This is common for having sequence/acceleration and posture issues aka strong arming/slipping. You should be later than 3 preferably around 4 to 5 at the rip. This is not something you achieve by trying to hold on later, but it is a byproduct of the proper swing mechanics to bring the edge of the disc around forward further.


I agree with you that in your OP stated you don't roll the wrist to change shots. However your post later mentioned you get some spin by rolling the wrist. Now again you say you don't roll. So?

To be clear, when you say some people roll under for anhyzer, you do mean pronate? What happens if you roll over/supinate? Would it go flat, hyzer, or roller?

The angles in your reachback are opposite of what pretty much everybody considers them.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/dgr/resources/articles/telegraphing.shtml


IMO this is because your weightshift sequence and timing mechanics are incorrect.


That is a fantastic philosophy, I also believe in it! :thmbup:

Now if only you would change your philosophy on the mechanics. :\


I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with some of ^ that.

Firstly the setup stance should be slightly closed with the front foot heel inline to the rear toes.

Secondly at #4 you are going to lose a lot of power and accuracy and momentum pausing in the transition between the backswing and forward swing, if you were fully loaded from the ground up it's one continuous fluid move back and forth that can't be stopped. You never see a golfer stop at the top of the backswing or a pitcher, pretty much every sport has a continuous windup phase and transition forward. Pelvis should be shifting forward during the end of backswing into the transition and squatting into the rear leg with the pelvis internally rotating into the rear femur, then the rear plantar flexion drives the rear femur/hip opening/externally rotates turning the pelvis as most of your weight shifts into a braced front leg from toe to heel, the pelvis turns internally into the braced front femur with the front knee straightening, putting most of your weight on the front hip and clearing it out of the way.

The way you have labelled the rest of the upstairs through #7 is in sequential order, but they each should overlap some in a fluid swing. The weightshift is also late in your sequence. A scary part is how you mention the elbow reaching it's limit and the forearm coming around it, so it sounds like your elbow is a static pivot point(If that is the case I suspect that is where your elbow pain you mentioned sometimes happens in previous thread before comes from). The shoulder/elbow should clear out to the right some to release the lower arm and disc straight through forward to the target for the most part(there is some arcing outside mostly when the disc is brought around at the end).

8. Follow through balanced on the front leg with the rear leg moving forward behind the front leg as the arm swings all the way around. The rear shoulder should finish straight through inline(both shoulders inline) to the target line apex, while the rear arm may vary from 60 to 180 past the target line apex. The rear leg may get pulled through as well, depends on the shot and balance and momentum.

There is a bit more happening during the throw, but what the hell do I know? I'm just a loud mouthed shnook.

There's a lot here, and I don't have the patience to break down each section and respond to it. I can't argue with throwing high but nose down since I see the pros do it. I'm not there yet. If I throw 'properly' at my level, I throw flat and low and get the most distance being a tad nose down. I know I'm missing out on a big distance boost here, but, again, I'm not there yet. As I understand it, the only reason nose down helps is that it reduces lift - lift being the primary cause of drag after OAT.

I have to disagree about the grip being later than 3PM on the disc/clock at release. If anything, the pros seem to release earlier, not later, but I could be wrong about that. Slowed down, top down video is rare, and hard to interpret sometimes.

As for pausing to make sure I have everything lined up and balanced properly, you're probably right that I lose something, but, with my current methodology, it ensures a better throw than what I achieve rushing the movements. Throwing from a stand still is not optimal - I know that, but it gives one the chance to learn some proper movements and accuracy that the run-up and x-step don't (at least not as easily). Blacksmiths tap the anvil periodically between striking their work because it keeps the pendulum rhythm of hammer movements going while giving them a moment to consider what to do next - nothing takes more energy than stopping and starting again. You may have described exactly my next step - reach back and throw without pause. I'm letting my results dictate when I've hit a wall and need to alter what I'm doing. I'm just not there yet.

I agree that the remaining steps overlap - a bit hard to show in sequential steps, though I tried by using wording such as 'starting' to imply it continues through the next steps.

Either I misspoke or you misread, I don't roll the wrist - wouldn't even know how to begin to get that split section action into my throw, except by starting really slow and working the speed up. But I don't think I ever said that - if I did, I misspoke.

Appreciate the feedback - far better than the 'you're wrong and you're stupid' approach taken earlier. Thank you.
 
I have to disagree about the grip being later than 3PM on the disc/clock at release. If anything, the pros seem to release earlier, not later, but I could be wrong about that. Slowed down, top down video is rare, and hard to interpret sometimes.

You're wrong about that. Go back and look at the diagrams on page 9 of this thread.
 
20131012214524_fn1602.jpg


I think the problem here, is that you're saying stuff with authority... and you are not correct. We work very hard to figure this stuff out, share it patiently with fellow players and give credit to the players who have shared their insights with us.

If you came to the forum, and were throwing 500-800' and had discovered some unorthodox fundamentals - then I truly believe that we'd be all ears. But you're self admitting to being stuck at a typical beginner / intermediate plateau and suggesting that the core mechanics that are used by people throwing 500'+ are regurgitated and blah, blah, blah.

I strongly suggest you take a moment to read / process / develop your skills.
 

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