Throwing Slow Discs Further

[slowplastic]

I find as I've been adding arm speed that has been helping my faster and OS drivers, my mids and putters don't seem to see as much of a distance increase. For example, I lately am fixing a timing issue (thanks to several people here) and am noticing an increase in arm/disc speed already. This is most evident with overstable discs, that need that extra speed in order to see any increase in distance...like a Firebird or XCal/Destroyer type disc. More neutral fairway drivers see a bit more flight, but at the same time I don't feel confident laying into them as hard as a Firebird.

But when it comes to mids and putters, I feel like their useable range is still the same for me. I can throw putters 275' somewhat comfortably, and have thrown them 300'...but that is not something I would ever count on. On the course, if it's over 250' on flat ground I would go to a mid and just not risk it. For mids I have thrown them ~330', but I find they get touchier for me past ~300' and I then really need to hyzer flip (I mostly throw Buzzz type mids). So although I "can" throw them a bit further than 300', I find it's often not worth it...I'd rather just throw a 70% power mellower hyzer flip and get it out to 300' and know it won't turn over, and throw a fairway driver also at a mellow power at anything past that.

I know there's nothing wrong with that approach. But we've all seen videos of guys throwing putters 375-400', and McBeth has used Roc3's on 375' flat holes on a straight line...obviously he has tons of confidence he won't turn it over.

So is this extra stability in this further range due to a "full hit" or whatever you want to call it, giving extra snap/spin on the disc? How useful is it to throw mids 350'+? With my current form it's not worth it to throw mids past ~300' on the course, but I just want to know how guys can throw them straight for 50'+ further than that. I mean I have the ability to throw ~400' and I am backing off on the mids, but if I throw too much harder they start to flip more late in the flight...so that's why I'm thinking it's a spin thing.

 

[sidewinder22]

It's just a cleaner swing plane and more speed.

 

[slowplastic]

It's just a cleaner swing plane and more speed.

So just throw harder and don't OAT?

Do you believe in all the half-hit and full-hit stuff or do you feel it's just several issues that add together to make the transition to big power?

 

[horsethief]

With Roc's, I've never had to worry about how hard I throw it, even into a headwind, unless it was a well seasoned one.

IMO the difference between a full hit/half hit/no hit is this:

No Hit: All arm. Not much more to say than that :\

Half Hit: Timing is pretty good, the shoulder timing is correct which is why the launch speeds are higher. Since your shoulders/torso can get your arm moving faster than just your arm by itself, this is why the speeds are higher.

Full hit: Correct timing for the shoulders, but you add the wrist on top of it -- even higher launch speeds.

 

[sidewinder22]

Pronate your arm to induce OAT(not the bad kind) and throw harder, or for the pedantic, off intended disc plane torque. See thumb push/pronation:


I don't know about half vs full hitting. I can tell that I haven't nearly maxed out the power of my hips/rear leg on my BH compared to the power I get from my FH and it's largely due to balance(lack of rear leg balance/practice), or lack of doing "the move" part 1 as powerfully. It's still like trying to throw lefty, but I'm starting to get the hang of it.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

The main reason I like throwing a driver 350' on a hyzer line is that it gets to the ground faster. If I throw a mid 350' (like a roc) it's in the air longer (potentially) affected by the wind longer. I feel like relying on glide to get the distance is a risk I don't need to take.

How many times have you seen a disc elevator to the ground? Throwing the projectile driver, it's more predictable. Throwing a drone in a little wind 275' is insanely predictable.

I know exactly what you are asking though, and it's that the hit will accelerate the disc without adding any unwanted turn, and without going to a hyzer flip. Personally, I can't trust that I will dial up a perfect hit on a dead flat release and get a mid 350'. I know 100%that I can put a teeBird or a tern on a hyzer and get there.

Even if I could get very confident in a reproducible 350' mid, right now at least, I say disc up and power down and use as much hyzer as space allows.

Now, all that said... I'm talking about rounds you care about the score. If it's more of a fun game, I disc down at every chance and try to blast mids or polecats or anodes or my Condor.

I love slow discs strolling across the sky.

 

[slowplastic]

Thanks for the feedback.

That crush the cans video was a really good way to show the obvious timing of the weight transfer, and it helped me fully realize I was way too late on the shift. Changing that helped out, but I know I have a few weeks of throwing to get this newer form automatic, as I still have to think about a few things before most drives. But I can tell it's way better. I've also moved to the arm swing to get into the backswing...it just flowed the first time I tried it and works great for me. Thanks for doing those videos.

The whole pronate/wrist roll thing is pretty foreign seeming to me. I try to keep everything on the same plane as best I can until well into the follow through, so I'm certainly not doing that on purpose at the moment. Is that something that is done to help "tug" the disc at the last second, like a different way to tell your body to do the wrist extension? I'm guessing I'll get a lot of noob turnovers trying that out for a while...

Here's a recent still shot (I know my balance arm is too far out...got to fix that) that shows I am holding the disc real late for the half hit. I guess I just need to figure out how to get that extension or tug or whatever magic it is, so that I can get that last bit of spin/snap/speed/everything on the disc so I get the ridiculous bombs with high speed stuff and long straight putter shots.

Oh, and I do agree that Rocs can take a bit more power than the Buzzz style stuff, but I still think that my mids should be able to go 350' or so one day...

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

It's tough to tell from a snap shot which direction you're throwing , but to my eyes your plant foot is too open.

That bump visible on your thumb is a tell tail sign you aren't nose down enough. It should be more coffee pouring (flat from forearm to top of thumb).

To feel the feelings of the full hit / wrist opening - play with the wide rail. It moves forces around and helped me to feel things in a different way. Sw and I may disagree on this, but I think there's a way to visualize hammering to the right (or a late hammer) to promote the wrist.

 

[akray21]

To feel the feelings of the full hit / wrist opening - play with the wide rail. It moves forces around and helped me to feel things in a different way. Sw and I may disagree on this, but I think there's a way to visualize hammering to the right (or a late hammer) to promote the wrist.

One of the two things I learned from field work yesterday was that the wide pull works for me. Somehow I feel that it helps my wrist get into the right position easier as it creates somewhat of a shortcut. I was spraying things a little to the right with the wide pull, but the release felt so much better and was, for the most part, OAT free. How do I adjust my throw to stop spraying right?

 

[garublador]

Another thing to consider is with slower discs you also need more height. Throwing high without a stall out can take a bit of practice, even if you're half hitting. I don't know if this is actually the issue or not, but it's worth mentioning.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

^that's a big part of it for sure, especially with slower putters and mids. Some faster mids these days can fly pretty far on a lower line but getting a putter out past 325' will take a different throw than a driver-- really good point to make.


RE: stop spraying right-- close your stance. I'd bet you are in-line with the target | vs \ (rhbh)

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

One of the two things I learned from field work yesterday was that the wide pull works for me. Somehow I feel that it helps my wrist get into the right position easier as it creates somewhat of a shortcut. I was spraying things a little to the right with the wide pull, but the release felt so much better and was, for the most part, OAT free. How do I adjust my throw to stop spraying right?

Close your stance or aim left of your line. Seems crazy, but aiming 15-20 degrees left was exactly what I did

I can't believe this just dawned on me, but "hammering to the right" in my lingo is just forcing wrist extension!

It was a way for me to trick my mind into putting force into the wrist opening right at the last second. I figured this out by standing still looking at my wrist in a hammer forward vs a hammer right.

I can't stress this enough: I'm not trying to throw the disc to the right. Everything is moving forward targetward, then towards the end of the extension, the focus is to "sling right" which in reality is "open wrist".

I really think this is one way to take advantage of full hitting, without screwing everything up by focusing on one body part - when you can use a more over-all sensation which promotes that body part.

Now my wife is going to murder me for typing posts when I am supposed to be taking the kids to school.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Another thing to consider is with slower discs you also need more height. Throwing high without a stall out can take a bit of practice, even if you're half hitting. I don't know if this is actually the issue or not, but it's worth mentioning.

High in the sky if you want your putter to fly!!! Simon lizotte is a crazy example throwing the damn things nearly as high as some of us put out drives :| This is a very understable putter at just over 300' that even finishes with a little turn/skip

 

[slowplastic]

It's tough to tell from a snap shot which direction you're throwing , but to my eyes your plant foot is too open.

That bump visible on your thumb is a tell tail sign you aren't nose down enough. It should be more coffee pouring (flat from forearm to top of thumb).

Thanks for the tips, but I think I have those two issues ok with my current form. I am throwing down the soccer field at the opposite goal, so you can see my front foot is parallel to that goal that's behind me, and at 90 degrees to my aim. I definitely learned that I should place the camera slightly differently next time; it's perpendicular to my aim but definitely not perpendicular to my body.

As for the thumb bump, I do the Avery Jenkins style grip with the tip of my thumb pressed down and my thumb joint at a 90 degree bend to induce that...so my wrist is flat and the nose is definitely down. I know this because I get long turnovers that keep holding right, and I also was throwing "too" nose down about a month ago where my discs were way too flippy and I was also getting dives into the ground very frequently (like flat to the ground 200' away...not flipping into the ground). I'm able to throw ~30' high hyzer flip turnovers that carry right with a Vulcan with my current grip and wrist orientation so I'm quite certain I'm nose down enough.

The height could be an issue as well, as I am typically throwing these mid shots about 12-15' high on hyzer flip line drives. I often am more likely to get too floaty if I throw them higher but maybe that's where I need to practice it as well. That being said...if I need to throw them 20-30' up there to hit 350'+, then I'd rather just cruise a Teebird there at under 10' high. But it would still be a fun practice field shot.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Good! Good! Good!

I realized when I looked at that image on a bigger screen that the angle was probably culprit. Looking very strong. Wish we all lived together to throw fieldwork. I can't talk people into the torture chamber around here...

 

[slowplastic]

Good! Good! Good!

I realized when I looked at that image on a bigger screen that the angle was probably culprit. Looking very strong. Wish we all lived together to throw fieldwork. I can't talk people into the torture chamber around here...

Cool, thanks! Yeah without knowing the angle and my grip style those things can definitely jump out. I don't want to put up video of that session since it was during my transition to the new timing, and I want to let the motions sink in for a bit so I can get used to them and smooth it out before critique. There's no way I could currently do that form, plus change additional things at this point. For reference that shot was probably a 375-400' Destroyer shot over the other net so it was decent for me. But I know some things to get used to with that form, and I believe it should put me at least 425'+ when I get comfortable with it. Then we'll see where to go from there.

I also wish I could have some field sessions with you and SW and others and get yelled at constantly until I'm hitting 450+.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

 

[bcastello]

Wish we all lived together to throw fieldwork. I can't talk people into the torture chamber around here...

This seems to me pretty common. I don't think I have ever had a real in depth person to person conversation about it. You start getting detailed on form people tend to look at you like your from some alien planet.

 

[wildwing]

Good! Good! Good!

I realized when I looked at that image on a bigger screen that the angle was probably culprit. Looking very strong. Wish we all lived together to throw fieldwork. I can't talk people into the torture chamber around here...

I can't talk people into torturing me around here. I wonder if I can FaceTime you guys...hmmm..

 

[horsethief]

This seems to me pretty common. I don't think I have ever had a real in depth person to person conversation about it. You start getting detailed on form people tend to look at you like your from some alien planet.

the reaction I get from my friends is usually "oh boy, here we go..."

I too think it would be great if we could all get together.

Word of warning: HUB, i was just messing with your hammer to the right and almost busted out a window...