Top card pure push putters

[Alexplz]

Hey.

I've been working on my putting form lately after starting the season attempting a pure push/shovel putt ala Feldberg. I have switched to more of a spush putt, allowing my elbow and wrist to break, while sticking with a low stroke.

I've noticed that all the disc golf I've watched on Jomez and CCDG has involved lead cards with 3-4 players who either throw a pure spin putt, or an arguable spush like McBeth or Ricky.

Seems like the putting form gurus preach pure push putting, but the proof is in the pudding on these lead cards. What's the deal?

 

[chris540]

I could have created this thread myself. I have been working on push putting the last few weeks.

I headed up to Cincy to watch the Idlewild Open and hung out near the practice basket for several hours. I didn't see even one pro pure push putting.

It's really giving me some pause on spending tons of time on it seeing as the guys who do this for cash must not think the benefits of push putting are worth the drawbacks.

 

[BrotherDave]

I think a lot of this boils down to how much time you have to devote to practice. Spin putting is arguably a superior style *IF* you practice it religiously. Otherwise you'll either be super hot or super cold. Push putting is a better style for players wanting quick improvement without as much practicing to get a consistent feel. The top pros are doing this for a living so the edge that spin putting has is worth the effort. Push putting is a bit more slump-proof so it's preferable for a lot of players that really struggle with consistency, less moving parts, etc.

 

[New013]

The top guys tend to encounter wind a fair amount. Spin putting is far superior in the wind than push putting. I'd guess that has something to do with it. I'd say most of them spush which is a mixture, I vote go with that.

 

[DougCrawford]

I went through this about a year ago, and am still trying to settle on a definitive style. What I have found is that what Feldberg describes in his clinics and what he does are two different things, and no top pros use a strictly push style. I think the closest you may find is Barry Schultz. Bottom line is your putt will need some sort of spin to stabilize its flight. How much is up to you and your comfort level. I tried to make the strictly push work for a while. I was great inside 20ft, iffy from 20-30, and almost couldn't get it to the basket outside 30. I started to incorporate more wrist and a more aggressive snap and that helped quite a bit. Accuracy went down at first but with practice it got better. As mentioned before, as you have time to work on your accuracy, and it takes practice, incorporating more spin is beneficial. I like Ricky's style as it incorporates the leg muscles and weight shift to propel the disc forward instead of straight spin stabilization like MJ, Simon, Eagle, or Kj Nybo. I'm using a mostly Ricky style putt now and my accuracy is about the same from 20-50 ft, inside I just have to think about releasing lower.

 

[@iDiscGolf]

Ricky's putt is much more of a push putt than a spin putt, no? Not sure I'd even call it a spush

 

[Countchunkula]

I think the rise of the spin putters (if that's even what's happening), has a lot to due with the evolution of basket design. When I think of push putters, I'm thinking Climo, Schultz and Feldy. When those guys started playing, there were still a lot of 1st and 2nd generation baskets out there. Some or most of these had a single layer of chains. If your putt was coming down as it contacted the chains, there was a greater likelihood of it sticking. The faster spin putt, with a flatter trajectory, was riskier with the baskets of the day.

 

[DougCrawford]

Ricky's putt is much more of a push putt than a spin putt, no? Not sure I'd even call it a spush

The prep is definitely push, but the release is a low spin.

 

[Moose33]

Ricky's is the closest to a push, but his wrist action has some snap.

The most pure push guy is Feldburg but with his injuries and whatnot he's not been playing as much.

 

[bnbanbury]

This is a topic that i have thought about a lot because I feel like the push putting philosophy that certain pros... push (heh) screwed me up for a long time.

People like Stokely or Feldberg who have said that push putting is superior to spin putting and the only real way to putt are just wrong. Straight up. When people like Feldberg were preaching push putt or die, Anthon was winning putting championships with pure spin putts. As far as i can tell there's not an increase in the number of guys spin putting, there have been really good spin putters for a long time they just weren't as vocal about it.

I gave up the push putt, have more spin in my spush these days, and my putting is much better for it.

 

[Broken Shoulder]

The prep is definitely push, but the release is a low spin.

The real difference is how the spin is generated. Instead of elbow and wrist hinging, Ricky gets his spin from finger spring. What's interesting to me is that I can get a lot more velocity on a Ricky style putt than I can a conventional spin putt, unless I line up sideways and rifle it.

 

[Discette]

I think the rise of the spin putters (if that's even what's happening), has a lot to due with the evolution of basket design. When I think of push putters, I'm thinking Climo, Schultz and Feldy. When those guys started playing, there were still a lot of 1st and 2nd generation baskets out there. Some or most of these had a single layer of chains. If your putt was coming down as it contacted the chains, there was a greater likelihood of it sticking. The faster spin putt, with a flatter trajectory, was riskier with the baskets of the day.

I think this explains a lot. When I started 20 years ago, this was good logic. The goal was to have your putts dropping at the chains because those single chain targets would not handle a hard spin putt. (This was also best style for playing on cone targets.) 20 years later, my soft floating putting style doesn't work as well on the cross chain targets so I am working to add more oomph on my putts or should I say more splush...

 

[da Crippler]

I went through this about a year ago, and am still trying to settle on a definitive style. What I have found is that what Feldberg describes in his clinics and what he does are two different things, and no top pros use a strictly push style.

This is exactly why I don't watch putting clinic videos any more. :\

 

[Golden Tuna]

It's just another arrow in the quiver...

I primarily spin putt. But, there are situations where a push putt is a better option. The beauty of spin putting is, when I'm on, I can hit putts from considerably longer distances. The down side is when I'm off, the misses tend to glide past the basket and create harder come backs...

When I do have time to practice putting, I practice "real world" putting scenarios, which includes spin putts, push putts, and different stances, such as straddle putts, etc. In my opinion, this creates a well-rounded game that can adapt to a variety of situations if one or more style is not "on" that day.

This is what works for me, I have no evidence that would support this approach would work for the OP or anyone else...

 

[Alexplz]

I think the point made that baskets have changed over the years makes a lot of sense. Look at all these chainstar spit outs at Ledgestone, and more recently at that private course that CCDG filmed, Black Falcon. Putting with a little more lob makes sense when a perfectly good putt in the heart of the chains can bounce off the pole and end up out.

Personally, it made very little sense to me to actually lock my elbow to keep things straight - what other athletic motion is improved by locking one's elbow? So now instead of throwing the baby out with the bath water, I've kept my improved weight shift and wind up that I've learned from pursuing the push putt, and gone back to a low spin as I mentioned previously.

Interestingly, in pursuing the push, I learned a lot about the mechanics of putting that I don't think would have been illuminated if I had stuck with my previous form. My previous form was terrible and basically combined the drawbacks of push and spin putting with the advantages of neither.

 

[Shamis]

A pure push putt is incapable of hitting the kinds of long range putts that these guys regularly hit, which is why even though it looks like ricky is doing a pure push putt, I'm pretty sure it's more of a spush.

 

[Dingus]

I don't seem to remember ANY pros push putting in the past. The first in my memory is Feldberg. But now that Barry is mentioned I realize his was a pure push putt.

At any rate the most popular putts back in the day were nose down spin puts, not push putts IMO. Realize that putting evolved using putters that would not fly well without spin. Can you imagine push putting an 86 softie?

The adage on old baskets was "without spin it won't go in".

 

[Alexplz]

I just thought of another thing - the claims of one putting style being more/less consistent than another... none of this stuff has really been studied scientifically or even statistically. "Spin putting is streaky; some days you're on, some you're off." "Push putting is bad in the wind... push putting was better for the old baskets." All these claims are 100% anecdotal! Keep in mind that what's best for a pro may or may not be best for me, a causal player who wouldn't mind feeling a little less frustrated missing so many 20 footers on weekend outings with the fam.

 

[dehaas]

I'd agree with whoever said Ricky's spin is coming from his finger tips. I think my putt most resembles his (really using the legs to generate power for the push forward) and the disc just kinda ejects off the finger tips. I really don't focus on and spin, it just kind of slides out. Now getting out further in distance you have to add a little bit, but that's to get the disc to the basket. From like 50 or so my putt straightens out a lot because I'm at the range where my legs alone won't get the disc to where it needs to go.

 

[Shamis]

I just thought of another thing - the claims of one putting style being more/less consistent than another... none of this stuff has really been studied scientifically or even statistically. "Spin putting is streaky; some days you're on, some you're off." "Push putting is bad in the wind... push putting was better for the old baskets." All these claims are 100% anecdotal! Keep in mind that what's best for a pro may or may not be best for me, a causal player who wouldn't mind feeling a little less frustrated missing so many 20 footers on weekend outings with the fam.

It's not anecdotal at all. Spin put engages more joints in motion. That's more points of failure. That means it's harder to be consistent. A push put at longer distances has to have a lob on it, that means it will be more susceptible than a perfectly flat spin put.