Tournament Directors Playing

[ratskrad]

If my only choice is playing my home course or working, the result may be no tournament for anyone. "Get a TD (who will work and not play)" isn't always an option.

But, heck, I'm not a professional TD, anyway, just a volunteer.

I wonder how many who think the TD shouldn't be playing in their local tournament have volunteered to take his place---to drop out of the tournament and TD for him so he can play.

Our club has a number of officials. We prefer to have the TD not play, so we all work together putting the tournaments together, but rotate TDing duties so it's not one person who always has to sit out.

note: this is just the way we do it and it works for us. I have no problem with TDs playing (as long as they follow the rules )

 

[mashnut]

Did you read the section of the competition manual you're arguing about? Looks like the penalty is 1 throw no matter how many throws are taken between the 2 minute warning and the signal to tee off. Sounds like a pretty harmless thing to me if they want to accept the stroke penalty, 2 minutes of practice throws aren't that big a deal. It's not any different than someone who purposely takes a practice throw during the round. It's against the rules and should be penalized accordingly, but that doesn't mean someone should be DQed for it.

 

[_MTL_]

Even when the person you have already warned and stroked is continuing to throw under the impression that there is nothing else you can do?

The fact that it is a TD doing it is what makes it a big deal to me. If the one person who has the final say on any rules violations is knowingly and intentionally breaking the rules before the tournament even starts, I would have to wonder how many other rules are being ignored just because the TD doesn't think they're that big of a deal.

First one is warning.
Second one and each shot afterward is a stroke.

If the TD refuses to take the strokes, get witnesses, report him to the PDGA after the event.

 

[DavidSauls]

Our club has a number of officials. We prefer to have the TD not play, so we all work together putting the tournaments together, but rotate TDing duties so it's not one person who always has to sit out.

note: this is just the way we do it and it works for us. I have no problem with TDs playing (as long as they follow the rules )

Fair enough. Many places don't have a collection of willing TDs---willing helpers, yes, but not willing TDs. It can be hard enough to find a non-TD willing to sit around and guard the fort. It's these places I'm thinking of.

Hopefully more places will be like yours as the sport grows.

 

[mashnut]

First one is warning.
Second one and each shot afterward is a stroke.

If the TD refuses to take the strokes, get witnesses, report him to the PDGA after the event.

Nope. From the Competition Manual:

A loud noisemaker, such as an air horn, shall be used to indicate that there are two minutes remaining until tee off. This signal shall be a series of short blasts. At this time, players are to end practice and all practice shots and move promptly to their teeing areas. A throw by a player between the two minute signal and the start of the round shall receive a warning if observed by two or more players or an official. After being warned, subsequent throws by the player during this period, if observed by two or more players or an official, shall result in one penalty throw added to the player's score, regardless of the number of throws.

One stroke for any number of throws after the two minute warning and before the round.

 

[ratskrad]

One stroke for any number of throws after the two minute warning and before the round.

^this is correct

but also from the competition manual:

3.3 Player Misconduct
A. The PDGA adopts a strict policy of
appropriate behavior and comments to
the media. Any conduct deemed to be
unprofessional is subject to disqualification
by the Tournament Director, and may also
be subject to further disciplinary actions
from the PDGA.

B. Players are expected to behave in a
professional and sportsmanlike manner
while participating in a PDGA sanctioned
event. Actions that are in violation of this
conduct include but are not limited to:

(5) Cheating: a willful attempt to circumvent
the rules of play

If a person has been warned and stroked and is still throwing . . .

 

[_MTL_]

One stroke for any number of throws after the two minute warning and before the round.

The manual says... (I've highlighted the important part you missed)

Any throw by a player between the two minute signal and the start of the round shall receive a warning if observed by two or more players or an official. After being warned, subsequent throws by the player during this period, if observed by two or more players or an official, shall result in one penalty throw added to the player's score, regardless of the number of throws.

You are 100% wrong. It is a warning for the throw. And then it is a stroke for each shot AFTER the warning.

 

[DavidSauls]

I'm with Mashnut. Subsequent throws (the ones generating the penalty) shall result in ONE penalty throw, regardless of the number of (subsequent) throws.

 

[_MTL_]

My bad...I see what you are saying now. I thought you were saying there was no warning before the stroke. My bad.

 

[_MTL_]

And yes, you are correct.

I think I misunderstood the situation being discussed in this thread.

My bad and apologies!!

 

[DavidSauls]

Back to the topic, I'll backtrack on my previous statements a bit as I recall one incident of a TD playing and, well, a little questionable.

I recall a case where the 2nd round started about 10 minutes late, as the TD and assistant TD took their warmup putts. Of course, it could be that their watch, which had been accurate for the first round, had lost 10 minutes. But it sure seemed they were delaying the 2 minute warning until they got their putts in.

One accepted drawback of being a playing TD is that you may not get the practice time everyone else does. I say, live with it.

 

[PhillyMatt]

I wonder how many who think the TD shouldn't be playing in their local tournament have volunteered to take his place---to drop out of the tournament and TD for him so he can play.

Probably more then you think.

This is a biased question anyway. If you've had 0 problems with TDs playing in tournies, you are fine with it. If you have had problems, you aren't.

No need to start pointing the finger at people you don't know/have ever met.

Back to the topic, I'll backtrack on my previous statements a bit as I recall one incident of a TD playing and, well, a little questionable.

This was posted during the time i was writing my response. My points are still valid.

 

[Martin Dewgarita]

What about the TD's that choose not to play because of the free keg and then is incoherent by the time the last card comes in.

 

[PhillyMatt]

that sounds about right lol

 

[DavidSauls]

This is a biased question anyway. If you've had 0 problems with TDs playing in tournies, you are fine with it. If you have had problems, you aren't.

Honestly, my bias is towards cutting volunteers some slack.

 

[PhillyMatt]

the ones who deserve it, sure

 

[KenTyburski]

I'm sitting around for the 21 hole salute while everyone else is playing. I want this tournament to be as smooth as possible and I feel like I'd need to be available at all times. I've also seen new TDs try to run and play tournaments and it can become an awful experience.

I'll be playing in this event. I'll be sure to be extra thankful to you for your efforts. I'm looking forward to it, as a prep for Worlds.

 

[DavidSauls]

the ones who deserve it, sure

Which volunteers---which volunteer TDs---which volunteer TDs doing lots of work so others can play---don't deserve to be cut some slack?

 

[araytx]

I was a spotter during the the rounds yesterday(and TD the rest of the time).

1. Had 3 players fail to show up for round 2...... I needed to be available and NOT playing.
2. Laptop decided to get all weird for my wife while she was doing payouts during 2nd round....... I needed to be available and NOT playing.
3. Water levels in the creek receeded DURING the course of the day, changing the OB lines.........I needed to be available and NOT playing.

I decided last year that i was gonna quit trying to do the combo TD/Player thing and so far the tourneys have run much smoother. Plus my tourney game has improved.

It seems to me ... just like several people postulated, that this was a planning issue, not a playing one. *Three players failed to show could have been dealt with if there was an "assistant TD" holding down the fort at HQ; *laptop malfunction could be avoided by having multiple computers available; water levels changing could be avoided by striping the creek before the tournament. *As a TD at one local course, we have a creek that drains fast and the water level changes all the time, so we mark the safe creek boundaries with white striping paint before the tourney.

 

[PhillyMatt]

Which volunteers---which volunteer TDs---which volunteer TDs doing lots of work so others can play---don't deserve to be cut some slack?

The ones that suck at it.