TruBank Des Moines Challenge

[txmxer]

I agree that is likely the reason, but my thinking is if a few select players have a skill that others do not, why can't they be rewarded for that on one hole? Course the reality is even that is a risky shot which honestly brings bogey into play as well, so it is just a different risk/reward play.

Plus, I think viewers and especially spectators enjoy these (as much as the camera can follow them), so I think they should get rid of those 'eliminate the spike hyzer' forced mandos.

They said it was one of the easiest holes on the course based on scoring.

Given the line is pretty large, I don't imagine many would want to go over the top.

 

[RowingBoats]

The final round on Jomez was so fun to watch holy moly.

 

[WD09]

Plus, I think viewers and especially spectators enjoy these (as much as the camera can follow them), so I think they should get rid of those 'eliminate the spike hyzer' forced mandos.

I think speed of play becomes a big factor here. Lots of spike hyzers leads to lots of looking for discs in and behind trees, lots of difficult lies among trees, so lots of slow play by the lower cards (and maybe also the top cards). That might be part of what was involved in the decision to establish a double mando there.

 

[shakatak]

I agree that is likely the reason, but my thinking is if a few select players have a skill that others do not, why can't they be rewarded for that on one hole?

That hole is only 260'. Every single MPO player could easily reach it with a spike hyzer.

 

[nothinbuttree]

That hole is only 260'. Every single MPO player could easily reach it with a spike hyzer.

But how many are precise enough with it to want to try it? Quite a few trees in the way as I remember.

Holes 7 and 9 at Idlewild (last year's hole numbers) are two that come to mind for me in this discussion.

Hole 7--KJ and maybe others found this massive sky hyzer to the right that crashed through, and usually left a fairly routine birdie, because it was close to the circle. But...few had the power to get the shot there, so it was rewarding these few with a birdie on a tough hole. The next year, there was a mando (IIRC), that advantage lost. I get that Idlewild is more a finesse course than a power one (for the pros anyway--it is both and then some for me), but still...

Hole 9--fairly easy RH turnover or RHFH, but a tight gap. Saw KJ (again) with a massive sky hyzer (pick your term) that again, seemed to twice be very successful for him--did not notice many, if any, others trying that, and there is still no mando on the hole I am aware of.

I do not recall the exact dimensions of the hole in question at Des Moines, but I wonder how many would even be trying a big hyzer if the mando was not there. Next time I watch a round there I will pay attention more.

 

[shakatak]

But how many are precise enough with it to want to try it? Quite a few trees in the way as I remember.
I do not recall the exact dimensions of the hole in question at Des Moines, but I wonder how many would even be trying a big hyzer if the mando was not there. Next time I watch a round there I will pay attention more.

I've played it a few times and I would bet there would be plenty of pros throwing the hyzer on that hole without a mando. Having said that, I'm not exactly sure why there's a mando. I was just replying to someone who said a select few players had the skill to reach that basket with a hyzer.

 

[biscoe]

IMO spike hyzers are the least interesting shot in the sport by a fairly wide margin. YMMV.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

I've played it a few times and I would bet there would be plenty of pros throwing the hyzer on that hole without a mando. Having said that, I'm not exactly sure why there's a mando. I was just replying to someone who said a select few players had the skill to reach that basket with a hyzer.

One of the reasons for the mando could be that spectators and players are walking through trails near that hole that are not visible off the tee.

I also agree that a good deal of players would take the hyzer if available. I've seen a few people throw that line before they even realized there is a mando on the hole.

 

[_MTL_]

IMO spike hyzers are the least interesting shot in the sport by a fairly wide margin. YMMV.

The counter argument to a hole like hole 12 is so few people have the ability to do it. Let's not forget that throwing a crazy high spike hyzer or overhand is NOT lucky, its a skill. Just as some people can throw sidearms and others cant, some players can do this and others cannot.

I'm not a fan or limiting shot options off the tee, but that's just my personal preference. IMHO, the "well we don't want someone throwing over the top" isn't a valid argument for why a Mando is added.

 

[nothinbuttree]

I've played it a few times and I would bet there would be plenty of pros throwing the hyzer on that hole without a mando. Having said that, I'm not exactly sure why there's a mando. I was just replying to someone who said a select few players had the skill to reach that basket with a hyzer.

For this course, it appears you have me beat in times played by 'a few', (I sit at zero) so I will defer to that for this particular hole.

 

[mittbull]

I think it has to be a safety issue...at least on the right side of the fairway, going up above the tree line at Pickard is asking for trouble with wind almost always present and any shot not making it back to the fairway is going to have a hard time even pitching out.

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

Simply as a viewer, I think this is a really good example of a pro-level parks-style course that rewards angle control and hitting landing zones, and, on some shots, line shaping. Any course where players have to throw on a variety of angles and run into some natural penalties for poor shot execution is one I will watch. I really think, for the amount of open air on this course, the course provides the best shot shaping challenges that plot of land allows. It's not as strenuous as DGLO, as narrow as some of Idlewild, or a disc-golf specific property like Jonesboro. But, for a parks course, it is stellar.

And, as an added thing, judging only from the coverage, it seems to accommodate media well and shows well on coverage. Not a top-5 course on tour, but I'd watch it over most of the non-wooded courses. Plus, it's in Iowa; my ill-informed assumption would be that a course in Iowa would be closer in style to an Emporia course. I would think the DGPT has to love having this course and tournament on the schedule.

 

[Nick Pacific]

The final round on Jomez was so fun to watch holy moly.

Simon's salute to the crowd before the winning putt even landed was the one of the coolest things I've ever seen on Jomez.

 

[Jolt]

Speaking of putting, Simon was 100% C1x . .he did not miss a single inside putt in the entire tournament . . .thats HARD to do

 

[biscoe]

The counter argument to a hole like hole 12 is so few people have the ability to do it. Let's not forget that throwing a crazy high spike hyzer or overhand is NOT lucky, its a skill. Just as some people can throw sidearms and others cant, some players can do this and others cannot.

I'm not a fan or limiting shot options off the tee, but that's just my personal preference.

Nor am I. Options and creativity are part of the game.

IMHO, the "well we don't want someone throwing over the top" isn't a valid argument for why a Mando is added.

Does that change when you have a course full of opportunities for a given shot and very few places where a different given shot is truly required though? I honestly have little opinion one way or another- every designer's opinion will be different. I wonder if these mandos exist every day or if they were added for DGPT. In permanent course design there are ways to take away shots without the mandos, less so when you are just coming in for the weekend.

 

[_MTL_]

Does that change when you have a course full of opportunities for a given shot and very few places where a different given shot is truly required though? I honestly have little opinion one way or another- every designer's opinion will be different. I wonder if these mandos exist every day or if they were added for DGPT. In permanent course design there are ways to take away shots without the mandos, less so when you are just coming in for the weekend.

That is a fair point for sure. I think where you see that effective is 7 at USDGC. Still the best design mando I've ever seen.

And on one of the closeups of the mando sign you can see both the DGPT mando sign and a permanent one, so my assumption (can't stress that word enough) is that the course always has them on this hole.

 

[Steve West]

...

I'm not a fan or limiting shot options off the tee, but that's just my personal preference. IMHO, the "well we don't want someone throwing over the top" isn't a valid argument for why a Mando is added.

Paradoxically, the only way to increase the variety of throws used on a course is to limit the choices available on each hole.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

And, as an added thing, judging only from the coverage, it seems to accommodate media well and shows well on coverage. Not a top-5 course on tour, but I'd watch it over most of the non-wooded courses. Plus, it's in Iowa; my ill-informed assumption would be that a course in Iowa would be closer in style to an Emporia course. I would think the DGPT has to love having this course and tournament on the schedule.

While there are some open Emporia style courses, I find the majority of the courses in Iowa are pretty heavily wooded.

Wildcat Bluff, Big Woods, Walnut Ridge, Big Creek, Shaver, Dubuque Veteran's Memorial, are all excellent wooded courses I play often. There are several more as well.

I wonder if these mandos exist every day or if they were added for DGPT. In permanent course design there are ways to take away shots without the mandos, less so when you are just coming in for the weekend.

This hole was created specifically for the Challenge and was not part of the original design. I don't think it is always playable, so I would imagine the mando is always in play from this tee. Even with the mando, its got to be one of the easier holes on the course.

 

[dmoore1998]

While there are some open Emporia style courses, I find the majority of the courses in Iowa are pretty heavily wooded.

Wildcat Bluff, Big Woods, Walnut Ridge, Big Creek, Shaver, Dubuque Veteran's Memorial, are all excellent wooded courses I play often. There are several more as well.



This hole was created specifically for the Challenge and was not part of the original design. I don't think it is always playable, so I would imagine the mando is always in play from this tee. Even with the mando, its got to be one of the easier holes on the course.

In theory, all the holes will always be playable going forward with the addition of more pins that are staying in the Gold Layout and additional pins for the other layouts.

I would say the majority of courses in Iowa are NOT heavily wooded...but the majority of the highly rated courses are wooded. The majority of courses are open, park-style courses. Not particularly long, etc. But those are EVERYWHERE. It seems to be if you're going to bother putting one in the woods...it gets pretty good treatment because otherwise you wouldn't bother.

It also might be a bit of a stretch to call some of those "heavily" wooded? I wouldn't consider Walnut Ridge to be heavily wooded. I'd call it a 50/50 course.

A lot of the nicer courses with woods tend to be taken care of by larger entities. You put a course into a location (like a state park) that already has conservation resources behind it and dedicated teams to maintaining the area...and you tend to get a lot better upkeep than if you're just relying on a small town or small team of volunteers to keep the woods trimmed up during the summer storms.