[Innova] V aviar

[SD86]

Not sure if the bottom mold is really Vtech but it kinda feels that way.

V-Tech is a convex rim, i.e. it curves outward. Non-V-Tech would curve inwards or be straight. You can see it pretty easily. Look at a Whale underside vs. an Aviar, or a Wombat vs. a Foxbat.

 

[titovanburen]

this sounds like it would fit into the modern remake line-up... a low profile beadless aviar
There's already a shallower version of a big bead (colt) so this would maybe be like a beadless colt

 

[hurricaine]

thiking this would be a smaller, slower colt-ish disc? maybe a little straighter and flatter than normal dx aviars? also im assuming these are beadless as well

 

[SD86]

thiking this would be a smaller, slower colt-ish disc? maybe a little straighter and flatter than normal dx aviars? also im assuming these are beadless as well

Sounds like we're guessing because of the "V" in the name that it'll be a V-Tech rim, but that doesn't have to be the case. There are big-bead Aviars, also. I do like the idea of a shallower, flattish, Colt-like putter, but that brings up the question "At what point is an Aviar no longer an Aviar?"

 

[VictorB]

I'm guessing lower profile beadless Aviar.

I can get behind this.

 

[hugheshilton]

I do like the idea of a shallower, flattish, Colt-like putter, but that brings up the question "At what point is an Aviar no longer an Aviar?"

I think lots of people asked the same question about the "VRoc" and many people came to the conclusion that a VRoc is not a Roc, although I think there are people who still like the VRoc despite the fact that it is different enough that the name is a little silly. I'm sure if Innova comes out with a VAviar that is an Aviar with a convex rim, there are plenty of people who will say (outraged) "This isn't an Aviar!" but it's still the sort of thing I think Innova would do, and there will probably be some people who like it anyway.

 

[SD86]

I think lots of people asked the same question about the "VRoc" and many people came to the conclusion that a VRoc is not a Roc, although I think there are people who still like the VRoc despite the fact that it is different enough that the name is a little silly. I'm sure if Innova comes out with a VAviar that is an Aviar with a convex rim, there are plenty of people who will say (outraged) "This isn't an Aviar!" but it's still the sort of thing I think Innova would do, and there will probably be some people who like it anyway.

+1 :clap:

You're absolutely correct on this. And it may well be what Innova has in mind. Time will tell; I guess we will find out fairly soon.

I do have one side question that is tangentially related to this: what were Whale sales? Would this disc be considered (by you the posters here, or by the Innova peeps) as a success? a failure? a 'meh'?

 

[hugheshilton]

I do have one side question that is tangentially related to this: what were Whale sales? Would this disc be considered (by you the posters here, or by the Innova peeps) as a success? a failure? a 'meh'?

As far as what sales were, I wouldn't have any idea. However, the fact that Innova has released it in production DX, champion, and XT runs beyond the initial XT CFR run tells me that it's had at least some success. I have no anecdotal evidence as far as how many of them I "see on the course" because I'm not currently playing in a league and I don't stop and ask strangers about their discs very often. To me, the Whale does have a unique feel that's a little different than Innova's other putter offerings, so I'd guess it's the sort of disc that will garner a small but loyal following over time, at least enough to stay in production.

 

[SD86]

As far as what sales were, I wouldn't have any idea. However, the fact that Innova has released it in production DX, champion, and XT runs beyond the initial XT CFR run tells me that it's had at least some success.

My own purely anecdotal observations comes from one of the PIAS stores that I frequent. This store has a lot of F2 discs and used discs, so I drop in fairly often.

Last Spring this PIAS store binge-bought Champion VRocs and XT Whales (many with the first-run star stamping). They've sold some of them but a lot of that inventory has remained on the shelves to this day. IMHO they overbought (sales-pitched into it?) and those that are going to buy already did buy. However, they have not indulged in acquiring any Colts, so they're missing out on that.

The other PIAS store I go to most often madea point to branch out into other brands. I got my Lucid Judge, CB Warden and Prodigy discs from them. They have a more varied selection of Innova discs, also, and a good number of F2 discs. They also are selling DX VRocs, which tempted me but I resisted. This PIAS never had very many Whales at all, but they did stock up on Colts, and appear to be moving those briskly. I would add that the staff at this store listens to customer requests and gets in the discs that disc golfers recommend (there are two major DG courses not far from them, as well, so we're talking some good DG player traffic there).

Again, that is all anecdotal observations and occasionally talking to the staff at the stores there. My thinking in asking the question about Whale sales is its relative success to what Innova is thinking of doing with this V-Aviar. I guess we'll see...

 

[pjhayes7]

My own purely anecdotal observations comes from one of the PIAS stores that I frequent. This store has a lot of F2 discs and used discs, so I drop in fairly often.

Last Spring this PIAS store binge-bought Champion VRocs and XT Whales (many with the first-run star stamping). They've sold some of them but a lot of that inventory has remained on the shelves to this day. IMHO they overbought (sales-pitched into it?) and those that are going to buy already did buy. However, they have not indulged in acquiring any Colts, so they're missing out on that.

The other PIAS store I go to most often madea point to branch out into other brands. I got my Lucid Judge, CB Warden and Prodigy discs from them. They have a more varied selection of Innova discs, also, and a good number of F2 discs. They also are selling DX VRocs, which tempted me but I resisted. This PIAS never had very many Whales at all, but they did stock up on Colts, and appear to be moving those briskly. I would add that the staff at this store listens to customer requests and gets in the discs that disc golfers recommend (there are two major DG courses not far from them, as well, so we're talking some good DG player traffic there).

Again, that is all anecdotal observations and occasionally talking to the staff at the stores there. My thinking in asking the question about Whale sales is its relative success to what Innova is thinking of doing with this V-Aviar. I guess we'll see...

I think I remember you saying you live near me, and if so, I know exactly which PIAS you are talking about. I think all of the whales have sold out, but there are still quite a few vrocs(although they are not the first runs, but a restock. I think this has more to do with people loving to try new putters, but new mids, especially from Innova and Discraft, are just going to be said that they are not as good as Rocs or Buzzzs. My guess, new putter with Aviar in the name will do just fine.

 

[hugheshilton]

Personally, I think Innova botched the VRoc thing a lot. The 2 versions of the VRoc which corresponded to their most popular Rocs were both released as expensive CFRs, namely the champion Roc3 version and the DX Rancho Roc version. Why is it that all these months after this disc was released, I can't go to a store and buy either a champ VRoc3 or a DX VRoc2??? Both molds exist and have been released as CFRs (albeit not in DX). Most of the Roc throwers I know use either DX/KCP Ranchos or champ/McPro Roc3s. I know no one who bags San Marino Rocs, so why is that the only version of the VRoc available in regular production? Not to say the San Marino Roc is awful; I'm sure someone on these forums will tell us that it's their favorite disc. But I don't think anyone can possibly say that it's anything like as popular as Ranchos or Roc3s. Keeping those versions, the ones most likely to strike a cord with Roc throwers, as CFR-only is just stupid. Why did they even try to capitalize on the Roc name if they weren't going to use the Roc molds most people throw? /rant

 

[SD86]

Personally, I think Innova botched the VRoc thing a lot. The 2 versions of the VRoc which corresponded to their most popular Rocs were both released as expensive CFRs, namely the champion Roc3 version and the DX Rancho Roc version. Why is it that all these months after this disc was released, I can't go to a store and buy either a champ VRoc3 or a DX VRoc2??? Both molds exist and have been released as CFRs (albeit not in DX). Most of the Roc throwers I know use either DX/KCP Ranchos or champ/McPro Roc3s. I know no one who bags San Marino Rocs, so why is that the only version of the VRoc available in regular production? Not to say the San Marino Roc is awful; I'm sure someone on these forums will tell us that it's their favorite disc. But I don't think anyone can possibly say that it's anything like as popular as Ranchos or Roc3s. Keeping those versions, the ones most likely to strike a cord with Roc throwers, as CFR-only is just stupid. Why did they even try to capitalize on the Roc name if they weren't going to use the Roc molds most people throw? /rant

Good rant! :thmbup:

But you also bring up a nice point, intended or not, in your rant: just look at how many molds and plastics have the "Roc" name (including the Roc3). This has to be truly confusing to relative newbies, and even more knowledgeable and experienced DG people (i.e. those who read these boards) can get overwhelmed with all that.

The Aviar has also had a number of molds (from "classic" to P&A to "Aviar Driver") and then we get into the plastics such as KC, JL, and Yeti, Star, Champ, McPro, etc. And now they're going to add a "V" Aviar?!?! I'm sure it'll be a good disc and many will like it. In the meantime, I'll take my confused self to the practice basket with my Judges and Warden and try to figure it all out....

 

[hugheshilton]

Good rant! :thmbup:

But you also bring up a nice point, intended or not, in your rant: just look at how many molds and plastics have the "Roc" name (including the Roc3). This has to be truly confusing to relative newbies, and even more knowledgeable and experienced DG people (i.e. those who read these boards) can get overwhelmed with all that.

The Aviar has also had a number of molds (from "classic" to P&A to "Aviar Driver") and then we get into the plastics such as KC, JL, and Yeti, Star, Champ, McPro, etc. And now they're going to add a "V" Aviar?!?! I'm sure it'll be a good disc and many will like it. In the meantime, I'll take my confused self to the practice basket with my Judges and Warden and try to figure it all out....

Lol, right! I think Dave D just loves to tinker with molds and mold pieces, and then they never know when to just call a modified version of a mold something new or some modified version of the original disc name. Seems like with putters and mids, they are more likely to call something a modified version of some original name whereas drivers that share mold pieces with other drivers usually get new names. It is definitely confusing.

 

[SD86]

Lol, right! I think Dave D just loves to tinker with molds and mold pieces, and then they never know when to just call a modified version of a mold something new or some modified version of the original disc name. Seems like with putters and mids, they are more likely to call something a modified version of some original name whereas drivers that share mold pieces with other drivers usually get new names. It is definitely confusing.

On the one hand, I appreciate it that Mr. Dunipace and the Innova crew do try new things, and they've come out with some great stuff over the years, from molds to plastics. Yeah, they have some duds, but that's Edison's idea of learning something when one learns something didn't work.

But you're right about the name confusion. I just hope they don't follow the Coca-Cola mistake and call a new disc the "New Avair"....

 

[Jenga54]

VRoc Wombat and the like are beaded.

Sounds like instead of just putting out the Aviar Driver in DX (really? c'mon man!) they're making a new beaded putter in base plastic.

honestly though, no DX beaded aviar? Do you hate me? I have a P1x because there's no aviar driver dx

 

[brandocommando9]

Dx big beads are very easy to find dgvalues has had them for years.

 

[Jenga54]

Is the DX BB not a production disc so they can make these special ones? Still silly the Aviar Driver isn't a production disc in the base plastic. I can't grip KC in the cold of MN.

The V version I bet has a bead and roundy nose. Even sillier would be a roundy nose right down underneath and no bead.

 

[brandocommando9]

I have a feeling it will be beadless the whale is already pretty much a big bead v aviar. Maybe not though.

 

[titovanburen]

They (innova) gotta keep up with the joneses
Whale to compete with dagger
colt to compete with judge
v aviar to compete with ...pure?

 

[Mulligan]

IDK how retailers even keep up with the shelf space required to keep all these iterations, the cost of purchasing these for them to just sit in the shop forever, or let alone just trying to explain it all to a new player.