What rules infractions do you call in Tournament play?

[araytx]

I've never called any violations in my three tournaments. I did have a foot fault called on me in my first ever tournament, by somebody not in my division, because I misunderstood the rule. It is interesting to point out, however, that the people who called didn't make me re-putt - so they called the rule but didn't properly assess the penalty.

I personally think it's really ****ty to expect everyone to call every violation they ever see, even if is the "right" thing to do. Because disc golf is such a mental game, and I have a mind that won't shut up, calling a violation isn't so simple as just call it and move on. It would get into my head, for a few different reasons, and affect my ability to play my best. Screw that!

Calling time violations seems like the hardest thing for to call. It would take a large amount of concentration away from my game (rather than thinking about my next shot, I'm watching a stopwatch) and it could be somewhat difficult to "prove" in certain circumstances.

Not very many of us who advocate for enforcing the rules are saying "call every violation you ever see,...." Quite the contrary, our objective is to prevent violations from occurring at all so there's no need to call a bunch of stuff, rather than try to police violations all the time without letting people know or helping them get it right. Again, a little preventative work, giving an unofficial warning between holes, can deal with that. You can now find a way to not be in violation and still keep your focus. And it should be appreciated.

Wonder how many tournaments he had played and how many foot faults he had committed in those tournaments because no one had called him on it before? That's part of the trouble with folks not saying anything (no friendly reminders, no official warnings/calls, nothing) when they see violations...people don't learn. In the long run, that guy's better off for having been called on it because now he can address and fix it.

I played a casual round this morning with a couple guys. Both relatively new, just finishing their first year of competing seriously in tournaments. Noticed on the first hole that one of them stepped off the front of the box on his tee shot. It was one of those instances where he planted at the very edge of the pad and pivoted on his heel so that most of his foot was in the dirt at or just after release. Close call...didn't say anything as it was just a fun game and all. Two holes later, he did it again. Then a third time. On the fourth time he did it, it wasn't even close as his entire foot was completely off the front of the tee even before he pivoted. So I asked him if he knew he was faulting when he did that. He didn't know he was even doing it at all, let alone against the rules. No one had ever said anything about it before and the other guy with us, who plays with him more often, confirmed he's seen him do it a few times a round but never said anything.

He'd been playing MA2 all year and is planning to make the jump to MA1 for next year. He was glad I pointed it out and is going to work on correcting it so he doesn't get called in tournaments in the future. I'm equally surprised and not surprised that he's played 6-7 tournaments already this year and he was never called on it, friendly warning or otherwise. It's the culture of the game, unfortunately.

See... in reality it is appreciated -- NOT policing, but getting people to know, understand, and follow the rules..

 

[Pbmercil]

I personally think it's really ****ty to expect everyone to call every violation they ever see, even if is the "right" thing to do. Because disc golf is such a mental game, and I have a mind that won't shut up, calling a violation isn't so simple as just call it and move on. It would get into my head, for a few different reasons, and affect my ability to play my best. Screw that!

Calling time violations seems like the hardest thing for to call. It would take a large amount of concentration away from my game (rather than thinking about my next shot, I'm watching a stopwatch) and it could be somewhat difficult to "prove" in certain circumstances.

Sounds like you need to work on your mental game.

Time violations are tough. I generally lean on the friendly reminder for those, and so far it has worked fine. I did have on guy this year get super mad and refuse to speak to me the rest of the round, but he sped up. So it was all good in my book

 

[BogeyNoMore]

DL:

Maybe I should give you a scenario and how I handle it, and you'll see that there is a way (at least in my mind) to be sure everyone plays by the rules to the best of your ability without being a jerk about it.

I learned preventive officiating from my days as a football referee. After play when it was close we might say, "hey #62, your hands are starting to creep outside the defenses body when you're blocking. If that happens at the point of attack it's gonna be a holding penalty." Or, tell the DB, "#42, remember you can't use your hands to impede the receiver more that 10 yards out if your not playing the ball. Luckily that wasn't a pass play, but be sure not to on a pass or they'll get an automatic first down." So then if a few plays later #62 got his hands outside the body, we'd call holding; if #42 is still chucking the receive way downfield on pass, he'd gonna get an illegal use of hands.

Same basic concept. I don't let someone continually blatantly break rules. But there are players in tournaments, even some who've been playing a long while, that might not know the rule or might not realize they are breaking one or coming close to breaking one. I know I sometimes break a rule, but unintentionally. Telling someone privately between holes, "hey man whenever you take a long run up you seem to plant your foot past your marker and way right, so be careful to put it down right within the 11+ inches behind the marker," is preventive officiating. Now if he still does it, I've tried to let him know not to -- I'll even show him what I'm talking about if he asks. I appreciate it if other players tell me the same.

And similarly with other violations that can be handled "preventively."

This, my friends, is the right way to handle things. You needn't be a jerk. Just matter of factly (or perhaps even politely) inform them of what they're doing wrong (or coming dangerously close to doing wrong).
The bit about telling them privately helps avoid embarrassment and can potentially keep things from escalating.

 

[Mr. Butlertron]

I give an unofficial warning from time to time if it the act is questionable. That usually keeps the possibly offending player from putting themselves in a callable situation further into the round. If the PDGA showed some backbone with their international payout standards there would actually be some incentive to make more calls. As is, it's not worth the trouble.

 

[JoakimBL]

One thing I find particularly hard to call, but see a lot, is players standing too close to their mini. When rocking back and forth, they often touch with the tip of the shoe, sometimes it hard to tell on the actual putt, if the toe touches before or after release, but it's so avoidable, and there is nothing gained by standing so close to your marker on a putt, as opposed to standing 2 cm's further back and remove all doubt. I often warn players, and it usually works for a couple of holes, but then they return to their usual habits. It's such a minor thing, and no advantage gained, but it could and maybe should be called, I just don't really like to do so. And I do call foot faults in general.

 

[mark996]

If it's an ongoing, blatant foot fault, I'll mention it, and blatant courtesy violations. I play Intermediate, so I'm not too worried about calling things unless its pretty bad. I may talk with the guy about it or bring it up if they seem open to conversation. I figured after 2016, and if I go up to advanced, it'll be a different ballgame.

 

[CrazieJ]

You have to learn how to call people out. You get better at it over time, with experience. You learn how to deliver it, your tone, you body language. At first you may feel bad for calling them. It gets easier. You gotta start somewhere. I had to. I will squash it right away, because if I don't, its gonna eat at me the whole round. As an experienced tournament player, I also feel obligated to educate newer players about the rules as well as uphold the rules out of respect for our sport. Usually, when you call a rule violation, it turns into a rules lesson for the whole group free of charge. Really everybody wins when we call rule violations.

 

[Reniger]

Courtesy Violations! Don't be a dick.

If "He who has the most fun wins" than, he who ruins the most fun should be DQ'd.

 

[Steve West]

Courtesy Violations! Don't be a dick.

If "He who has the most fun wins" than, he who ruins the most fun should be DQ'd.

Which is why "Repeated violations of courtesy rules may result in disqualification..."

Unless you like playing with players who throw when they are not certain that the thrown disc will not distract another player or potentially injure anyone present; don't watch the other members of their group throw in order to aid in locating errant throws and to ensure compliance with the rules; produce auditory or visual distractions while other players are throwing, including shouting, cursing, freestyling, striking course equipment, throwing out of turn, throwing or kicking golf bags, throwing minis, and advancing on the fairway beyond the away player; and who refuse to perform an action expected by the rules, such as assisting in the search for a lost disc, moving discs or equipment, or keeping score properly; litter, and allow their smoke to disturb other players, and dispose of cigarette butts by dropping them on the ground.

 

[araytx]

My point about the body enforcing rules was pertaining to the pencilwhipper still playing in sanctioned events while the body, the PDGA, turns a blind eye to it.

You are correct in saying we, hands & feet of the body, so to speak, are responsible for calling infractions during rounds.

Sorry for so many anatomy references.

I'd like to give this poster a hand; his/her argument is right on the nose. It is up to us to shoulder the burden of calling the rules. The integrity of the sport may waist away if we do not.

Not nice making extrapolations, spreading gossip, etc. Unless you have evidence of a documented pencil-whipping, a documented report to the TD, and a documented report to the PDGA.

 

[araytx]

Courtesy Violations! Don't be a dick.

If "He who has the most fun wins" than, he who ruins the most fun should be DQ'd.

Which is why "Repeated violations of courtesy rules may result in disqualification..."

Unless you like playing with players who throw when they are not certain that the thrown disc will not distract another player or potentially injure anyone present; don't watch the other members of their group throw in order to aid in locating errant throws and to ensure compliance with the rules; produce auditory or visual distractions while other players are throwing, including shouting, cursing, freestyling, striking course equipment, throwing out of turn, throwing or kicking golf bags, throwing minis, and advancing on the fairway beyond the away player; and who refuse to perform an action expected by the rules, such as assisting in the search for a lost disc, moving discs or equipment, or keeping score properly; litter, and allow their smoke to disturb other players, and dispose of cigarette butts by dropping them on the ground.

True dat, Steve! And who says you can't have the most fun following rules! It ain't pee-wee football...

 

[Smigles]

We are all not only players, but also referees. I can't understand why some people have such a hard time enforcing the rules of the game. Pussies, i'd say.

 

[BrotherDave]

I'll call a rules violation when I see a rule that makes a chit violated. I'll let you control freaks stress out over inches too far away from invisible lines.

 

[smyith]

ive called foot faults in both categories, and courtesy violations. the latter always after several warnings/notices.

the other two i have only warned about. letting someone do either of those then calling a violation should be a courtesy violation on the person who knowingly let you do it just to be a nob.

 

[halfchub]

We are all not only players, but also referees. I can't understand why some people have such a hard time enforcing the rules of the game. Pussies, i'd say.

Its dg, this hobby is laughable.

 

[Three Putt]

We are all not only players, but also referees. I can't understand why some people have such a hard time enforcing the rules of the game. Pussies, i'd say.

I don't sign up to be a referee, so I generally don't pay any attention to the other people on my card. I call what I see, but I'm not going out of my way to watch what you do like a referee would. While you are foot-faulting in the fairway I'm at my lie looking at my shot; I really don't give a flying what you are doing. As a result all I generally see is people stepping off the tee or stance violations around the basket, and I call those. Usually when somebody on my card calls something other than those things I can't second because I honestly wasn't watching.

 

[TheOtherBill]

I wasn't the original foot fault caller but had to 2nd it once made; player was knowingly releasing the disc while in the air, and he said he had been practicing doing so for weeks without knowing it was illegal (and his daughter-in-law is a former world champ). We had to pull out a rule book and show him, but he was (and always is) a good sport about it and won the division anyway.

 

[JC17393]

I don't sign up to be a referee, so I generally don't pay any attention to the other people on my card. I call what I see, but I'm not going out of my way to watch what you do like a referee would. While you are foot-faulting in the fairway I'm at my lie looking at my shot; I really don't give a flying what you are doing. As a result all I generally see is people stepping off the tee or stance violations around the basket, and I call those. Usually when somebody on my card calls something other than those things I can't second because I honestly wasn't watching.

Except that we all do sign up to be a "referee".

801.04
B. Players should watch the other members of their group throw in order to aid in locating errant throws and to ensure compliance with the rules. ​

You shouldn't be off at your lie worrying about your throw while someone else is throwing. You should be watching your fellow competitors throw, not just for rules enforcement purposes, but as the rule states, to aid in locating errant throws as well.

I don't think the expectation or obligation is for everyone to stand nearby and stare at the throwing player like a baseball umpire preparing to call balls and strikes, but it is certainly to take your observations of your fellow players a step or two above "I really don't give a flying what you are doing".

I'll admit I'm not as good at this as I should be, like most everyone else, and I'm guilty of wandering off in search of my disc or someone else's and missing other player's throws in the process. It's not always intentional, but it is still not a good habit. I'm not about to rationalize it away as "not my problem" either. Everyone could be a bit better at complying with the rules...all the rules, not just the ones that are convenient or socially acceptable.

 

[BrotherDave]

Should and have to are two different things. I'm not paying money to work, I'm paying to enjoy some disc golf. If I wanted to play referee I should get paid for it (or pay nothing at all), not the other way around. So if I don't see something egregious I'm not calling it.

 

[DavidSauls]

Should and have to are two different things. I'm not paying money to work, I'm paying to enjoy some disc golf. If I wanted to play referee I should get paid for it (or pay nothing at all), not the other way around. So if I don't see something egregious I'm not calling it.

You're paying money to be part of a tournament. That involves enjoying some disc golf, and other duties. One of the duties is being a referee.

When you pay to play a casual round on a private course, you're paying just to enjoy some disc golf.

I suppose, at some point, someone could run a tournament with paid referees, and relieve players of this duty. I suspect this will involve significantly higher entry fees than we pay now.