Why I switched from Wizards to Ions (long post warning)

[discspeed]

So I just received my two DGR Ion's. Both medium one at 174 and one at 170. First of all I must say they look frickin amazing. Really cool

After all the hype, I was anxious to try them out. Even in this thread Discspeed touts that "they are much better than wizards". So ya cool story, but I dont see it anywhere. Granted I only got to throw them on full shots today, and I "only" got in 20 throws at most with them. While throwing them against an assortment of Wizards and a lone VP.

I was hitting them well and threw them all between 330-360, and all I can say so far, is that I dont see it. Sure its a joy to throw, and I was pleasantly surprised that it wasnt as long as a Spike. (Since I dont like the tweener putters, I like to have a clear distinction between my putters and my mids), but my Wizards flew very nice as well.

So to make a short story short. Nice disc, and Im happy that I can support DGR and Blake this way. But if you believe this disc will get you lower scores (if you already throw Wizards or KC's), all else staying the same, you will be disappointed. Unless the pure belief that this is the hottest thing since sliced bread, gives you more confidence and hence better results. But flightwise I dont see the big win.

This might all sound like I dont like it, which is not true. Its a very nice driving putter, but the difference to the (Wizards/KC) putters is marginal at best.

The Ion should fly farther on lower lines. Perhaps you know your Wizards very well, but you weren't maximizing the Ion's potential? I know those new ones start out overstable, and actually break in to being straighter and more workable in about a month of use (I attribute this to scratching up the bead/overmold). The Ion needs more spin than the Wizard as well.

I also agree with Jubuttib's post...What a Wizard is can be a million different things. Perhaps there are WIzards that are close to Ions in performance, but they are 1/100th of all Wizards.

imo, the Wizard beats out the KC because it's more gyroscopic, and the Ion beats out the Wizard for the same reason. Though I see a more dramatic difference between the Ion and WIzard. Nearly every poster who has tried the Ion has found it longer/better than the Wizard for driving, though some have stuck with baseline discs due to grip.

 

[jubuttib]

Nearly every poster who has tried the Ion has found it longer/better than the Wizard for driving, though some have stuck with baseline discs due to grip.

This was a concern for me at first, but I quickly found out that my grip suck no matter what plastic I use (Zero, R-Pro and Prodiscus Basic being the notable exceptions), so I might as well drop the excess molds. =)

 

[Mike C]

Its a very nice driving putter, but the difference to the (Wizards/KC) putters is marginal at best.

I'd recommend playing a putter round or two with just your Ions at a long, 18 hole course. Throw it on different lines, different distances, different wind conditions and elevations. Throw it on all sorts of putts.

I tried the Ion out 3 times before it clicked for me. It's the type of disc (IMO) that if you don't want to take the time to learn some of its nuances, you'll never see its true potential.

For example on putts I was never too impressed with it at first, but when I added a bit of spin to my putts my 175 Ion was gliding much better than my 166 putting Wizard.

Ions like spin in general, driving or putting. I get better hyzers, anhyzers and straight shots from the Ion than I did my Wizards, and I believe this is largely due to the gyro effect.

 

[Pwingles]

Mike,

Im genuinely interested in how the Ion does for you in the sub 50's and in the snow. I was considering getting some Ions and then having a voodoo in the bag for wet or cold/bad grip days. But maybe the soft will be grippy enough in the cold. What weights and plastics are you currently throwing?

 

[Mike C]

171 Opaque Soft for putts, 171 clear Soft for drives and upshots, 164 M and 175 S opaques for more upshot / drive options. I could do without the 175 since the 171 clear is plenty stable for hyzer drives and some wind, but I like throwing extra shots.

I haven't had a chance to take them out in the snow or sub 50's, but when I do I'll report back.

 

[rehder]

Its a very nice driving putter, but the difference to the (Wizards/KC) putters is marginal at best.

I'd recommend playing a putter round or two with just your Ions at a long, 18 hole course. Throw it on different lines, different distances, different wind conditions and elevations. Throw it on all sorts of putts.

I tried the Ion out 3 times before it clicked for me. It's the type of disc (IMO) that if you don't want to take the time to learn some of its nuances, you'll never see its true potential.

For example on putts I was never too impressed with it at first, but when I added a bit of spin to my putts my 175 Ion was gliding much better than my 166 putting Wizard.

Ions like spin in general, driving or putting. I get better hyzers, anhyzers and straight shots from the Ion than I did my Wizards, and I believe this is largely due to the gyro effect.

Ill see if I can make it out and play a wiz vs. ion round at my home course. It's close to 7100 feet, with a hole avg. of 394 feet. So it should be plenty long

 

[jubuttib]

It'd probably be better if you don't take the Wizard with you at first and focus on the ION. Take the Wizard after a couple of rounds, when you're getting comfortable with the ION.

I revisited my left-over Wizards (along with Ridges etc.) yesterday, and even though they're heavier than my IONs they feel much lighter when I putt with them and it affected my timing. I have to say I prefer the heavy feel of the ION.

 

[rehder]

I have to say I prefer the heavy feel of the ION.

As you say this is a feel based thing, and doesnt have anything to do with the flight of the putter itself. Inside the circle most putters have pretty similar flight characteristics. So for putting its more of a question of finding a putter and the practicing so you putt well. Ofc. if your putting improves because the heavy feel makes you more comfortable use it.

And here I wont change to the ION, because as has been said on here, its plastic is not good when wet, and I prefer the S-line.

It'd probably be better if you don't take the Wizard with you at first and focus on the ION. Take the Wizard after a couple of rounds, when you're getting comfortable with the ION

This is not the point. If the ION is so much better than everything else, it should easily show in a duel (if you will) over 18 holes. The point was not to use a lot of time to throw and hence get used to it. The point was that posts on this forum claim this disc is much better than anything else on the market. If this doesn't show itself over 18 holes I sincerely doubt it would ever prove to be that much better.

 

[discspeed]

This is not the point. If the ION is so much better than everything else, it should easily show in a duel (if you will) over 18 holes. The point was not to use a lot of time to throw and hence get used to it. The point was that posts on this forum claim this disc is much better than anything else on the market. If this doesn't show itself over 18 holes I sincerely doubt it would ever prove to be that much better.

His point is that you need to throw the Ion like an Ion, not like a Wizard. There are many things about the Ion that make it quite a different disc than the Wizard, most notably the weight distribution and thus lines/height/nose angles/spin ratio it likes to be thrown on. It also needs a power grip to get the spin on it. These adjustments would be difficult when you are throwing the Wizard side by side because you are going to keep throwing it like you are your Wizards. You've obviously got 1000s of reps with Wizards and very few with Ions. If you were a die hard Gazelle thrower when the Teebird came out, you would probably have trouble finding the Teebird "better" because it's different enough that you would have to learn it to see it's potential. Same thing was true when the rim widths started getting wider. So the same is true with the Ion. Perhaps since it's not intuitive you may not see the value of learning the Ion as you are happy with your Wizards. I wouldn't discount it as not worth the hype unless you learn it though. There are too many respected posters who agree on the Ion's virtues for you to discount it as a great disc without giving it a fair shot (learning to throw it).

 

[ner021]

The gateway guys tried to overmold a Wizard way back in the day (6 years ago?) They didn't have the technology to make it work though. They basically hand cut two Wizards run in different plastics and tried to bake them together, I think.

 

[keltik1]

lol wut

 

[jubuttib]

Old news. =)

 

[Mike C]

His point is that you need to throw the Ion like an Ion, not like a Wizard. There are many things about the Ion that make it quite a different disc than the Wizard, most notably the weight distribution and thus lines/height/nose angles/spin ratio it likes to be thrown on. It also needs a power grip to get the spin on it. These adjustments would be difficult when you are throwing the Wizard side by side because you are going to keep throwing it like you are your Wizards. You've obviously got 1000s of reps with Wizards and very few with Ions. If you were a die hard Gazelle thrower when the Teebird came out, you would probably have trouble finding the Teebird "better" because it's different enough that you would have to learn it to see it's potential. Same thing was true when the rim widths started getting wider. So the same is true with the Ion. Perhaps since it's not intuitive you may not see the value of learning the Ion as you are happy with your Wizards. I wouldn't discount it as not worth the hype unless you learn it though. There are too many respected posters who agree on the Ion's virtues for you to discount it as a great disc without giving it a fair shot (learning to throw it).

+1

First time I tried the Ion a local store got a second run peach in, and I tossed 5 or 6 drives with it in crappy late winter Ohio weather, and wasn't that impressed compared to my Wizards. I was just throwing it a few times for fun and no had intention of replacing my Wiz's.

Second time I had ordered one not so much to try out the Ion, but just to compare it to my Wizards with a lot of other putters. I brought an Ion, Ridge, 2 Magics, and 2 Wizards out to a field and a course, and flirted with an S Omega AP. I noticed the Ions were going as far as my Wizards and were holding a nice, really straight line for me. I liked them for driving this time, but felt like my Wizards held up to wind better and I didn't like the Ion for putts at this time. It was a textured medium Ion from an older, no hot stamp run. I didn't take the time to figure out the spin it needed for putts and thus never learned how good of a putting disc the Ion can be. This was when I switched to Magics for a month or two because they suited my run straight for the chains putting approach, but they weren't very consistent overall so I switched back to Wizards.

This last time was when I hyzer flipped my buddys Ion 370-380' on a rope, so I decided to go buy myself an Ion to test again. This time it was specifically to test the Ion, not a whole mess of putters. I was also intent to give it a thorough test. I planned to take Wizards out of my bag 100% for a week and just throw Ions in their place, so I'd be forced to learn the disc. Also in my mind were all the posts from Discspeed and others about how the Ion likes spin, how it responds to release angles etc. At the end of day #1 I was already converted. The 175 S Ion I was testing felt as reliable on drives as my Wizards, held up to wind just fine, felt intuitive to throw, and gripped very well for me without the textured bottom. On putts it glided better than my 166 Wizard after I threw 10-15 practice putts and started learning how to give them spin. Having read about how to throw and putt with the Ion helped me learn them more quickly, and when their true potential showed I knew I found a superior disc. I went back to the store and bought a 164 medium and 171 soft to try out, and settled on the 171 for putts and the 164 as a lighter driving putter to compliment my heavy.

 

[JHern]

The Ion is a much faster disc than a Wizard, which is why I don't like it for putt & approach duty (but Ion is a great driver). The Wizard has nice brakes and you can whip it down the fairway and it'll settle down nicely at the pin, but the Ion just keeps on coasting. I played with both the Wizard and Ion on 100' and 200' approach shots, and on flat or downhill approaches the Ion just carried too far. In fact, I came to the conclusion that the Ion is a mid-range, closer to a Roc than a Wizard.

Another issue for the Ion is the rim is too sticky...this is a problem on steep terrain, with a smooth plastic edge you can scoot the disc up to the basket on the ground, but sticky rimmed discs tend to catch the ground, pop up, and roll away. Do they make a smooth rim version of the Ion? The Wizard has many options to choose from, I love the old circle tooled Medium Wizards for approach.

The Ion is superb off the tee, and performs amazingly at high speeds and in wind. However, I have to compare it with my Buzzz when it comes to longer shots...Buzzz wins.

 

[discspeed]

The Ion is a much faster disc than a Wizard, which is why I don't like it for putt & approach duty (but Ion is a great driver). The Wizard has nice brakes and you can whip it down the fairway and it'll settle down nicely at the pin, but the Ion just keeps on coasting. I played with both the Wizard and Ion on 100' and 200' approach shots, and on flat or downhill approaches the Ion just carried too far. In fact, I came to the conclusion that the Ion is a mid-range, closer to a Roc than a Wizard.

Another issue for the Ion is the rim is too sticky...this is a problem on steep terrain, with a smooth plastic edge you can scoot the disc up to the basket on the ground, but sticky rimmed discs tend to catch the ground, pop up, and roll away. Do they make a smooth rim version of the Ion? The Wizard has many options to choose from, I love the old circle tooled Medium Wizards for approach.

The Ion is superb off the tee, and performs amazingly at high speeds and in wind. However, I have to compare it with my Buzzz when it comes to longer shots...Buzzz wins.

Are you testing a soft or medium Ions? Based on your comments I'm guessing soft...If so, I'd test a medium as well as they are slower and fly more putter-like. The new soft Ion is an animal, and I've thrown them close to 400'.

I would argue while the Ion is faster than the Wizard, it is still a slow disc and easy to range once you learn it (especially for the mediums...). I spent years hearing this same thing from Roc throwers regarding Buzzzes, which I personally never had any trouble ranging them for the distances I used them. I think saying that the Ion is closer to a Roc than a Wizard is a bit of a stretch as well.

About the Ion being too sticky...I read this as "too sticky to use exactly like my Wizards". Again, this could be viewed as a strength once you learn the disc. You don't want an Ion hitting the ground with a bunch of extra spin on approaches...I prefer throwing the Ion on a gentle nose up anny for approach shots and they just level out, sit, and stick without much spin, bounces, or rolls.

As I've said before, the Ion is a significant upgrade from the Wizard, so much so that it takes some adjustment on the part of the thrower. For some people this is going to make it a tougher fit in their bag. I think my Gazelle vs. Teebird/Eagle analogy makes the most sense to me when comparing the Wizard to the Ion. I think the Teebird/Eagle are better than the Gazelle, but there is still a lot of Gazelle love out there and people who prefer it over the others because of how their discs fit together.

 

[dehaas]

i've been contemplating giving the ion a shot off of the tee for a while and finally broke down and ordered 2 medium opaques in the upper 160s. is there a lot of variation between clear and opaque, medium and soft, and lighter to heavier? ideally i'd like one that's nice and straight, and one that's a beefcake also.

i don't have any desire replacing the wiz on putts but it sounds like the ion might have a slight edge off the tee.

 

[Mike C]

That should fulfill the straight role. For the beefy one look into the new clear runs. My 171 had a very nice fade to it.

Give them a chance with putts too

 

[JHern]

The new soft Ion is an animal, and I've thrown them close to 400'... I think saying that the Ion is closer to a Roc than a Wizard is a bit of a stretch as well.

Yeah, that's what I mean about the Roc-like speed...it really does slice through air much faster than a Wizard, and for me it had ranging like a Roc would do. Wizards have a much stronger drag and settle down much more quickly. Higher drag is always going to be easier to range.

About the Ion being too sticky...I read this as "too sticky to use exactly like my Wizards". Again, this could be viewed as a strength once you learn the disc. You don't want an Ion hitting the ground with a bunch of extra spin on approaches...I prefer throwing the Ion on a gentle nose up anny for approach shots and they just level out, sit, and stick without much spin, bounces, or rolls.

In this example, it is the stickiness of the outside of the rim that matters. This isn't important to most people, but on my home course keeping your approach from popping up and rolling is half the battle. I like to use both slippery and tacky plastics, to adjust for the situation at hand. The Wizard has a great deal more variety than the Ion (as well as most other putters).

As I've said before, the Ion is a significant upgrade from the Wizard, so much so that it takes some adjustment on the part of the thrower.

Perhaps I've been schooled differently in these matters, but I usually look for the slowest possible discs for approaches, and the Ion is not one of them in my experience (at least the variety I threw). But I do love how it flies on longer flights, and I'm sure one will eventually be in my bag for that reason.