Worst fake rules ever invented

[mudslinger]

Look at option 1 in the ob rule you just posted. It gives you the option to throw from your previous lie without a one stoke penalty. That is what I am calling a free optional rethrow.

:wall:

Why would you use an already DEFINED TERM to define something that was clearly made sense?

BEFORE OPTION 1...what does it say (i'll copy it here for you).

B. A player whose disc is considered out-of-bounds shall receive one penalty throw. The player may elect to play the next shot from:
(1) The previous lie as evidenced by the marker disc or, if the marker disc has been moved from an approximate lie, as agreed to by the majority of the group or an official; or (2) A lie that is up to one meter away from and perpendicular to the point where the disc last crossed into out-of-bounds, as determined by a majority of the group or an official. This holds true even if the direction takes the
lie closer to the hole; or (3) Within the designated Drop Zone, if provided. These options may be limited by the tournament director as a special condition (see 804.01).

 

[atl scott]

My wife was playing in a tourney and she hit a telephone pole that had a wire going down the side and the wire gut a 3/4" gash in the rim of her go to Champion Beast. The only other female in the tourney was the TD's wife who imediately looked at my wifes disc and said "You cannot use that anymore because it is cracked and it's against the rules to use a cracked disc." She then told her if she got caught throwing it she would be disqualified from the tourney. Is a gash a crack?

I don't think a cut on a disc (from the rim in) is a problem. That's typical wear and tear and won't generally affect the flight of the disc. I would've fought the call, although since it was the TD it wouldn't have made a difference.

There are several discs in my bag with chunks out of the rim. There's a difference between that and a cracked disc.

 

[atl scott]

I was spotting for a tourney once at an island green hole. Many many people flew or rolled into the water, even on shots less than 100 feet. I retrieved most of the discs (cause that's just how awesome I am). I don't remember how many people (at least 5, including the best local pro IIRC) stated that the player could not use the disc they just threw OB for their next shot.

I didn't have the newest rulebook since I wasn't a PDGA member yet that year and no one at the tourney had one to give me. Total BS though and I had to restrain myself from arguing with the players that were so adamant about it.

 

[sidewinding]

:wall:

Why would you use an already DEFINED TERM to define something that was clearly made sense?

BEFORE OPTION 1...what does it say (i'll copy it here for you).

B. A player whose disc is considered out-of-bounds shall receive one penalty throw. The player may elect to play the next shot from:
(1) The previous lie as evidenced by the marker disc or, if the marker disc has been moved from an approximate lie, as agreed to by the majority of the group or an official; or (2) A lie that is up to one meter away from and perpendicular to the point where the disc last crossed into out-of-bounds, as determined by a majority of the group or an official. This holds true even if the direction takes the
lie closer to the hole; or (3) Within the designated Drop Zone, if provided. These options may be limited by the tournament director as a special condition (see 804.01).

I know what it says I posted it before you did. What does it mean. It means everyone was wrong when they said you can get out of a penalty stroke by just taking the optional rethrow on any penalty.

The truth of the matter is the only stroke you can get out of is the rethrow penalty stroke and only if you're ob...not if you're 2 meters. Why is it so hard to understand?

I know...because it is poorly written in the rules. It is left open to interpretation. Since the optional rethrow rule says penalty throw plus previous throw, people automatically assume that means you can disregard the 2 meter penalty.

 

[mudslinger]

I know what it says I posted it before you did. What does it mean. It means everyone was wrong when they said you can get out of a penalty stroke by just taking the optional rethrow on any penalty.

The truth of the matter is the only stroke you can get out of is the rethrow penalty stroke and only if you're ob...not if you're 2 meters. Why is it so hard to understand?

I know...because it is poorly written in the rules. It is left open to interpretation. Since the optional rethrow rule says penalty throw plus previous throw, people automatically assume that means you can disregard the 2 meter penalty.

WHAT ARE U TALKING ABOUT?

if your disc is in a tree...

ask this simple question...

ARE YOU IB OR OB when you take relief below?

If IB, does the TD specify 2 m rule at meeting? if not, mark and throw. no penality.

If OB, 2 m rule DOES NOT APPLY per the definition. Follow OB rule. take stroke and take appropriate relief (1 of 3 options).

:wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

 

[mudslinger]

I was spotting for a tourney once at an island green hole. Many many people flew or rolled into the water, even on shots less than 100 feet. I retrieved most of the discs (cause that's just how awesome I am). I don't remember how many people (at least 5, including the best local pro IIRC) stated that the player could not use the disc they just threw OB for their next shot.

I didn't have the newest rulebook since I wasn't a PDGA member yet that year and no one at the tourney had one to give me. Total BS though and I had to restrain myself from arguing with the players that were so adamant about it.

you are correct. the only time you can't retrieve a disc is for stance violation rethrows (falling putts). other than that, unless it's a courtesy violation for excessive time, you can get the disc.

 

[sidewinding]

WHAT ARE U TALKING ABOUT?

if your disc is in a tree...

ask this simple question...

ARE YOU IB OR OB when you take relief below?

IB

If IB, does the TD specify 2 m rule at meeting? if not, mark and throw. no penality.

Yes

If OB, 2 m rule DOES NOT APPLY per the definition. Follow OB rule. take stroke and take appropriate relief (1 of 3 options).

:wall: :wall: :wall: :wall: :wall:

So what do you do? You didn't really give an answer but for ob or no 2m.

You must have missed my original thread. You've been arguing all along without even knowing what for or which side you were on. Here is my original thread. Here

 

[mudslinger]

So what do you do? You didn't really give an answer but for ob or no 2m.

You must have missed my original thread. You've been arguing all along without even knowing what for or which side you were on. Here is my original thread. Here

here's the text from that: (JUST SO WE"RE CLEAR)

What about a disc that is two meters up but under it is an unplayable lie. If the player chooses to go to their previous lie then it's two strokes for the penalty right? This happened to a girl on my wife's card at the Texas women's championship a couple of years back. She and her caddy (husband) both said that once you're penalized for the 2 meter rule that you don't have to take a stroke for unplayable lie. Then they asked the card behind us and they all agreed with them.

 

[sidewinding]

here's the text from that: (JUST SO WE"RE CLEAR)

What about a disc that is two meters up but under it is an unplayable lie. If the player chooses to go to their previous lie then it's two strokes for the penalty right? This happened to a girl on my wife's card at the Texas women's championship a couple of years back. She and her caddy (husband) both said that once you're penalized for the 2 meter rule that you don't have to take a stroke for unplayable lie. Then they asked the card behind us and they all agreed with them.

It question was pretty clear I thought. Sure I used the old terminology of unplayable lie instead of the new terminology of optional rethrow.

 

[mudslinger]

What about a disc that is two meters up but under it is an unplayable lie. If the player chooses to go to their previous lie then it's two strokes for the penalty right? This happened to a girl on my wife's card at the Texas women's championship a couple of years back. She and her caddy (husband) both said that once you're penalized for the 2 meter rule that you don't have to take a stroke for unplayable lie. Then they asked the card behind us and they all agreed with them.

What about the lie makes it unplayable? FOr one thing, that definition does not exist anymore in the rulebook. ANd it if was 2 years ago, it's hard for me to clarify with today's rules using old terminology.

She's right about there being no double jeopardy...meaning you only have to take 1 penality, not two.

Presume 2 M was in effect at start of round by TD...

she would have to take relief (and a stroke penality) per 803.08A & C. I assumem the area she's in is IB since you can't apply 2 m rule to OB shots. So what about an IB shot is unplayable?

 

[TOURNEYPLAYER]

 

[sidewinding]

She's right about there being no double jeopardy...meaning you only have to take 1 penality, not two.

Please enlighten us as to where this "no double jeopardy rule" is. That is the crux of this arguement.

Presume 2 M was in effect at start of round by TD...?

Of course or this would never have been an issue.

she would have to take relief (and a stroke penality) per 803.08A & C..

That is what I have been saying all along but some are saying she can take advantage of a rule and cancel out the 2 meter penalty by taking an optional rethrow instead.

I assumem the area she's in is IB since you can't apply 2 m rule to OB shots.

You are correct in that assumption.

So what about an IB shot is unplayable?

Inpenetrable thorn vines.

 

[mudslinger]

Please enlighten us as to where this "no double jeopardy rule" is. That is the crux of this arguement.

Per CK's Q&A discussion, double jeopardy is not a rule.

QA33: Penalty Rule Priorities
Q: Is there a priority order for which penalty rule should be applied if more than one applies?
A: Yes. The priority order that penalty rules should be applied is as follows: Missing a Mandatory, Out-of-Bounds, Disc Above Two Meters (when the two-meter rule in effect), and Lost Disc. For example, if a throw misses a mandatory and lands in an OB area, the player moves to the Mandatory's Drop Zone and receives a one-throw penalty. A player does not receive more than one penalty throw even if their throw violates more than one of those penalty rules.

That is what I have been saying all along but some are saying she can take advantage of a rule and cancel out the 2 meter penalty by taking an optional rethrow instead.

She can "cancel" whatever other rulings she wants with optional rethrow, since optional rethrow can be used AT ANY TIME, according to rules. NO matter what she's taking a stroke and distance for optional rethrow. so if the 1st throw from teebox was in trees, she's shooting 3 from the tee again using optional rethrow. She can use 2M rule instead and play from below wherever the disc is in the tree, also shooting 3. SO it's either shoot 3 from the tee or shoot 3 from the relief point below tree. Depends on the situation as to what you take.

Inpenetrable thorn vines.

sucks...but she's entitled to take a penalty stroke to relocate to not play from that spot.

 

[sidewinding]

Per CK's Q&A discussion, double jeopardy is not a rule.

QA33: Penalty Rule Priorities
Q: Is there a priority order for which penalty rule should be applied if more than one applies?
A: Yes. The priority order that penalty rules should be applied is as follows: Missing a Mandatory, Out-of-Bounds, Disc Above Two Meters (when the two-meter rule in effect), and Lost Disc. For example, if a throw misses a mandatory and lands in an OB area, the player moves to the Mandatory's Drop Zone and receives a one-throw penalty. A player does not receive more than one penalty throw even if their throw violates more than one of those penalty rules.

She did not violate more than one of those rules. Only the one (2 meter) so just like the first two or three times you posted this it still does not apply to this situation.

And it's not a rule. It's a quote from PDGA's website. Are you seriously going to carry this around and try to use it for ruling in a tourney? Of course not. Only the rule book is valid for that.

 

[mudslinger]

She did not violate more than one of those rules. Only the one (2 meter) so just like the first two or three times you posted this it still does not apply to this situation.

I don't see how 2 rules apply together. You either take 2m rule or you take optional rethrow. You can't take an optional rethrow on a RELOCATED 2m spot, which is what you're trying to do. the optional rethrow applies to where the disc is now (in the tree), not to where you relieve it. If she says "well i'll take 2m rule, but this is impossible to play from"...too bad...you should have taken the optional rethrow instead. make sense?

/thread. seriously call the pDGA if you still don't get it.

 

[mudslinger]

And it's not a rule. It's a quote from PDGA's website. Are you seriously going to carry this around and try to use it for ruling in a tourney? Of course not. Only the rule book is valid for that.

the rules Q&A was added last year to the 2011 rulebook...meaning that players could reference the Q&A to help make rulings determinations.

 

[mudslinger]

the rules Q&A was added last year to the 2011 rulebook...meaning that players could reference the Q&A to help make rulings determinations.

correction...that was for 2012. Per the website:


Beginning on January 1, 2012 the PDGA Rules Q&A are considered to be authoritative and will stand alongside the PDGA Official Rules of Disc Golf and the PDGA Competition Manual for Disc Golf Events as the rules that govern competition in the sport of disc golf. The PDGA Rules Q&A will be included in the 2013 printing of the PDGA rulebook and will also be incorporated into the PDGA Official's Exam at a future date. The PDGA Rules Q&A may be found online at pdga.com/rulesqa

 

[Pwingles]

Lol, little did i know some seemingly insignificant post i made while taking a glorious morning dump would create this much chaos, muhahahahah

 

[Shimmer]

A local TD who had no idea what he was talking about, "If the disc goes in the chains and hangs in the chains, and at no point lands in the basket, it does not count."

 

[Cgkdisc]

If the 2m rule is in effect and a player's disc lands above 2m, the player may either rethrow from the previous lie/tee with a 1-throw penalty or mark below the disc with a 1-throw penalty. If the player does not like the lie below the disc, they likely will call an Optional Rethrow before marking below the disc instead of hacking out from that lie. However, they can use the Optional Relief rule to take line of play relief straight back until satisfied but that's costs another 1-throw penalty. I can only think of a rare situation where someone might do that versus rethrowing for just a 1-throw penalty versus 2.