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[Innova] Wraith vs Boss -

Preference

  • Wraith

    Votes: 111 70.7%
  • Boss

    Votes: 46 29.3%

  • Total voters
    157
.

Going all the way back to the OP: If you're only getting an additional 10-20 feet, is it really worth throwing a Boss? I'd take consistency over 15 feet on a drive any time.

i've since abandoned the star boss and replaced it with a Pro duplicate.
Pro beats in very quickly. I gave up on my star after many months.

I love my Wraith, it's such a consistent disc... but my Boss flies a bit farther. Unfortunately, both have essentially been replaced by my katana.

My boss has been mothballed, because my wraith is my most consistent Forehand disc.
 
I use the wraith its more consistent, but for the wind I use the boss
 
I have both in my bag and used to use both consistantly but have since disced down. It seems like the Boss is more stable and a better headwind driver, the Wraith a straight driver. I do use a Champ Boss on a hole where I need a consistant fade and once in a while during windy play. I've disced down to Valkyries and Vikings now and feel like I have much more consistancy and control, last weekend I was consistantly driving 350+ on target.
 
It surprised me when I saw this poll.

I arrange my drivers from most overstable to most understable, and for my throw I end up with XCal/Boss (x2)/Star Destroyer (x2)/Pro Destroyer/ESP Surge/Pro Wraith/Pro Katana. I'll have to try my wife's Star Wraith again (someday I will claim that disc; we just got her a 150 class sidewinder that she's liking with her 168 Avenger SS) to see how much more stable it is, my champ Boss and Pro Wraith are totally different animals to me. I like the Wraith, but I've got to hyzer flip that sucker, whereas I can go all out on the Boss at a level release.

I'd have to say my Pro Wraith is most similar to the Katana, flip city but if you harness the power of the flip you're golden baby
 
I carry every driver classified as speed 10 or more b/c I can fully utilize them and notice the subtle differences between them.
 
I carry every driver classified as speed 10 or more b/c I can fully utilize them and notice the subtle differences between them.

:clap:

For me, the boss is slightly more stable, slightly faster, and slightly longer. Of course, as you increase speed, consistency and accuracy decrease...
 
I don't throw the boss, always hated it. I throw a surge for my distance driver, or a crush. I haven't thrown a boss since I learned backhand, but forehand I thought it sucked. I just liked the destroyer so much better (I had a really overstable run of the boss that just didn't perform the way I wanted it to, destroyer would go so much farther)

Surge is ftw
 
I carry every driver classified as speed 10 or more b/c I can fully utilize them and notice the subtle differences between them.

I take it this little nugget was in reaction to my post?

I like to carry a lot of drivers as I take a lot of practice shots and that allows me to work more upshots in as well. Plus I can't convince my wife I need more discs if I leave extra laying around...

Back to your regularly scheduled Wraith vs. Boss debate, move along folks
 
my 175 star wraith is seasoning in oh so nice. rolling 500' regularly and driving flex/turnover shots out to 400'.

how do i change my vote?:\
 
A beat in wraith is very UNDERstable.

A beat in Boss is still very OVERstable.

They are not even close. Besides that they are both drives they are hard to compare.

This is not true.

If it is true for you, then you don't have the armspeed to throw the boss. The boss is speed stable, just like the wraith, and will act very understable when beat in, if it is getting up to its cruising speed.
 
I bought a 175g Boss when it came out. This was still back when I didn't really understand the relationships between weight, speed, and spin. As with all my high-speed disc purchases, everytime I threw the Boss it faded very quickly, and really was rather useless. I eventually took all the high speed stuff out of my bag.

And then I started throwing at football fields. I've commented about those experiences in a number of other posts. I learned a lot. I eventually realized that if I want to throw high-speed stuff, I can do so, but I need to really bring down the weight.

I don't have a big arm. I might look like I do, because I'm tall, but I don't get very much spin on the disc. And you have to match the weight to the spin, and that relationship is modified by the disc's speed. A higher speed disc will need more spin to make it do what it wants to do. And the higher the weight, the more spin you need also. So a high-speed, high-weight disc needs a lot of spin.

Eventually, on a whim, I bought a 150g Boss. I didn't really think I would be able to throw that either. I just never thought I would have an arm to throw things like Bosses, or Destroyers. It was discouraging. But it turns out that 150g Boss I could throw. Boy could I throw it. And with some practice, I eventually got somewhat consistent. Unfortunately, the more practice I did, the more confidence I got, and eventually that thing would flip over and turn into a roller (and not a very good one). I had to back off from throwing it hard. And that defeated the point.

So then I bought an R-Pro Boss at 162g. I personally love the R-Pro plastic. It is very rubbery (grippy). That's important to me because I don't impart a lot of spin with my wrist. So the extra grip means that when I release, I'm getting a bit more rotation from my fingers sliding off the disc. It makes a difference. And I eventually started really making that R-Pro Boss soar. I was throwing it 350' somewhat consistently. And while it was occasionally wild, it was worthwhile to me to throw it because it gave me so much confidence to throw a disc 350' consistently. I've tried lots of other drivers, including Valkyries, and I've never gotten them to go that far with any consistency.

Then I started turning the 162g Boss over. And then I lost it. So I bought a 165g R-Pro Boss. And that was even better. It did get beat up however, and now I find that it turns over if I put any sort of wobble on it, or if I just try-to-hard and don't give it a solid release. The disc is fairly beat, and it doesn't have as much forgiveness.

I have just recently bought a 167 Pro Boss. It isn't as grippy (to me), not as soft a rubber. But I'm going to give it a try. A year ago, if you had told me "hey, you'll eventually use a Boss as your go-to driver," I wouldn't have believed you. But, the reality is, I dropped that weight way way down, learned to throw better, and slowly raised the weight.

I now buy all my drivers in the 165-168g range. I know I can't get the spin needed to throw these discs at 175g. However, I must now be able to sometimes get the spin needed to throw them at 167g :)

So if you happen to be one of those people that thinks they don't have an arm for the Boss, you might just try getting an R-Pro at 162g, or even the 150g one, and learn with that.

I'm a big advocate of throwing older, slower plastic. That's done wonders for me. I'm not actually advocate folks go out and buy the high-speed stuff. My favorite discs right now are a 167g Leopard and of course my trust Dart. I've learned more by slowing down the discs and lowering the weights. However, I *do* throw my best distance with that Boss. And it does handle the wind a bit better. (People talk about needing more weight for the wind, but I think there's a small misunderstanding there. Certainly the weight matters into the wind, but I don't think it has anything to do with the wind not-blowing-it-around-as-much.)

Anyway, just thought I'd throw that all in there under How I Learned To Love the Boss. Goodness, good thing I'm self-employed.

Ken
 
Don't know if anyone mentioned this yet or not:

A 170g Boss is actually a LOT more overstable than a 175g. Don't ask me why this is. It is the only disc I know of that is more stable in a lighter weight. A friend mentioned this to me and I didn't really believe it until I compared the two. The 170 is extremely overstable, while I can actually turn over the 175 on a sidearm shot.
 
Ken - Kudos to you for the smartest post I've seen on disc golf in a long time.

People, that post looks long, but it's filled with important insight.

I'll add one thing to your final thought - heavier weight is important when throwing into the wind because the wind makes the disc more understable. In other words, if you normally throw a 170 Destroyer on a calm day, you should up the weight if you are throwing into the wind (if it's 10+ mph). Opposite is true for a tail wind.

Someone explained it to me this way. When you throw a disc into the wind, it acts like you've thrown it harder than you did because of the extra air flowing under it due to wind conditions. Or, to put it another way, if the wind is 10mph coming at you, your disc will act like you threw it approx. 10mph faster than you normally would. Ergo, you need a slightly heavier or more overstable disc.

Of course, it's also true that a disc that cuts the air is better in a headwind too. But that just means a faster disc. The combination of faster speed disc and heavier weight/more overstable is what you are looking for in heavy headwind conditions.
 
Don't know if anyone mentioned this yet or not:

A 170g Boss is actually a LOT more overstable than a 175g. Don't ask me why this is. It is the only disc I know of that is more stable in a lighter weight. A friend mentioned this to me and I didn't really believe it until I compared the two. The 170 is extremely overstable, while I can actually turn over the 175 on a sidearm shot.

The agent (starlite) they mixed in to make them lighter made the discs mold up more overstable.
 
I'll add one thing to your final thought - heavier weight is important when throwing into the wind because the wind makes the disc more understable. In other words, if you normally throw a 170 Destroyer on a calm day, you should up the weight if you are throwing into the wind (if it's 10+ mph). Opposite is true for a tail wind.

Someone explained it to me this way. When you throw a disc into the wind, it acts like you've thrown it harder than you did because of the extra air flowing under it due to wind conditions. Or, to put it another way, if the wind is 10mph coming at you, your disc will act like you threw it approx. 10mph faster than you normally would. Ergo, you need a slightly heavier or more overstable disc.

I agree and that's well said. The nuts and bolts is that weight and spin and so forth are all interconnected, and wind participates in this equation too. The faster speed of the disc relative to the air around it changes the equations. We don't need to know those equations, fortunately :) Just need to be able to react to them.

Thanks for the positive feedback!
 

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