2014 United States Disc Golf Championship

[Big Nasty]

Nikko just can't to seem to put together full tournaments anymore.

 

[JC17393]

Nikko just can't to seem to put together full tournaments anymore.

He just won a pretty big A-tier three weeks ago.

He just doesn't have the mental game for these big stage events. At least, not anymore. He did win this one once, way back when.

 

[Spinthrift]

McCray birdies again. Only 1 back.

 

[notroman]

Holy crap that's a ballsy shot by McBeth on 888.

 

[BennettUA]

Holy crap that's a ballsy shot by McBeth on 888.

What a double-skip off the pavement to land inbounds on 888.

 

[notroman]

Yeah... You don't really want to intentionally skip off that pavement. Let alone a double skip haha.

 

[WhiteyBear]

Because that wouldn't yield better or more accurate (take your pick of adjective) results than using the full field of 800+ rated players.

The reason the performance flight is excluded is because past data on performance flight scores proved to be too far outside the norm to generate statistically sound ratings. Look back at 2011...no official ratings generated for the performance only year. In 2012, they found the same statistical anomalies. Last year, they decided to use the open flight scores to generate performance ratings.

These same anomalies don't occur in "normal" am-only events, so there's no reason to exclude their data.

Why? Is it so hard to generate ratings when Open players arent involved? We've been doing it for over a decade now. That's no excuse.

 

[blackcatsmith]

Nikko is BURNT toast.

 

[Big Nasty]

He just won a pretty big A-tier three weeks ago.

He just doesn't have the mental game for these big stage events. At least, not anymore. He did win this one once, way back when.

Don't get me won't he still wins tourneys but by looking at his rating slipping and his inability to win the truly big tournaments one has to wonder what is so different than just a few short years ago. Maybe the mixed bag made all the difference?

 

[mashnut]

Why? Is it so hard to generate ratings when Open players arent involved? We've been doing it for over a decade now. That's no excuse.

Winthrop presents a lot of long forced carries and OB lines tailored to super gold level players. That combined with a different format for the ams makes ratings from this particular event not all that valid for ams. People keep trying to tell you why this event is an outlier and has to be treated a little differently from run of the mill events where the ratings system works just fine without top players.

 

[Hyzer Ale]

Incredible drive by McBeth, is that a leaner? He has calmed down and put a turkey together.

 

[Magicweed]

Incredible drive by McBeth, is that a leaner? He has calmed down and put a turkey together.

Thunderbird coming through again. Wouldn't be surprised if he keeps this run together the rest of the round.

 

[BennettUA]

And yet ANOTHER OB for Nikko.

 

[blackcatsmith]

Don't get me won't he still wins tourneys but by looking at his rating slipping and his inability to win the truly big tournaments one has to wonder what is so different than just a few short years ago. Maybe the mixed bag made all the difference?

Oh no, here we go again.

 

[notroman]

Why? Is it so hard to generate ratings when Open players arent involved? We've been doing it for over a decade now. That's no excuse.

Mostly for same reasons as several have pointed out so far.

1. The performance flight is playing to beat their projected par, not the entire field like the open players. This means if two performance flight people are on the same card playing hole 5 with one player having a projected par of a 7 and the other a projected par of 5, then they will both play different shots to get a birdie. The player that is going for 5 might play more aggressively to get his birdie 4 or par 5 and bring risk into play, maybe carding a 6 or higher. The player whose par is 7 might not bring water into play at all (except for the tee shot) and get a birdie 6 playing a totally different game.

2. The open flight players are playing for contention/cash. They always have the urge to push hard. The performance players are playing a trophy only division. Once you're out of it, you can essentially do whatever you want. You can have many people go into the "F-it" mode and just start goofing around because they're just there to have fun. This is not something you want included int he round ratings.

 

[JC17393]

Why? Is it so hard to generate ratings when Open players arent involved? We've been doing it for over a decade now. That's no excuse.

It has nothing to do with being unable to generate ratings without Open players. It has nothing to do with the players involved at all, in fact. The process is the same no matter who the players are.

It has everything to do with the fact that the numbers generated from performance flight scores were way too far out of whack with the norm. Something about the Performance game affects the way players play and that affects the ratings in a way never seen before in any other event. As it is the only event that has had these issues out of the thousands of tournaments that have been rated since the advent of the system, it makes sense to treat it differently to minimize the problem effects it causes.

 

[WhiteyBear]

Winthrop presents a lot of long forced carries and OB lines tailored to super gold level players. That combined with a different format for the ams makes ratings from this particular event not all that valid for ams. People keep trying to tell you why this event is an outlier and has to be treated a little differently from run of the mill events where the ratings system works just fine without top players.

They signed up for the event, and decided to play the format. Ratings shouldn't be "hancidapped" just because you aren't playing your normal pitch and putt.

Mostly for same reasons as several have pointed out so far.

1. The performance flight is playing to beat their projected par, not the entire field like the open players. This means if two performance flight people are on the same card playing hole 5 with one player having a projected par of a 7 and the other a projected par of 5, then they will both play different shots to get a birdie. The player that is going for 5 might play more aggressively to get his birdie 4 or par 5 and bring risk into play, maybe carding a 6 or higher. The player whose par is 7 might not bring water into play at all (except for the tee shot) and get a birdie 6 playing a totally different game.

That doesn't matter, ratings are determined by final score, not by your par on the hole.

2. The open flight players are playing for contention/cash. They always have the urge to push hard. The performance players are playing a trophy only division. Once you're out of it, you can essentially do whatever you want. You can have many people go into the "F-it" mode and just start goofing around because they're just there to have fun. This is not something you want included int he round ratings.

So pros getting 11, 12, 13+ don't count?

 

[Magicweed]

Side note: Wysocki takes an 8 on hole 17

 

[WhiteyBear]

It has nothing to do with being unable to generate ratings without Open players. It has nothing to do with the players involved at all, in fact. The process is the same no matter who the players are.

It has everything to do with the fact that the numbers generated from performance flight scores were way too far out of whack with the norm. Something about the Performance game affects the way players play and that affects the ratings in a way never seen before in any other event. As it is the only event that has had these issues out of the thousands of tournaments that have been rated since the advent of the system, it makes sense to treat it differently to minimize the problem effects it causes.

I wish I had a Christopher Walkien meme here...

You're looking at this all wrong. If you held a tournament at Winthrop Gold, with just amateur players, it doesn't matter if Open players are there or not, you still base the ratings off of the propgators.

I understand they made this an "exception", but I still think it's done inappropriately.

 

[JC17393]

I wish I had a Christopher Walkien meme here...

You're looking at this all wrong. If you held a tournament at Winthrop Gold, with just amateur players, it doesn't matter if Open players are there or not, you still base the ratings off of the propgators.

I understand they made this an "exception", but I still think it's done inappropriately.

You're looking at this wrong. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH WHO THE PLAYERS ARE. Period.

It's the math. Using the same process as every other event, the ratings generated by the performance flight were found to be so far off the norm as to be statistically unreliable. Theorize all you want as to why, the fact is the math shows there is something different about the scores being thrown by players in the performance format. Chuck's already chimed in here pointing out that SSA generated by performance flights have been off by 8+ strokes compared to "normal". It's a unique occurrence.