2022 Memorial Championship in Arizona

[txmxer]

I think they should push putt inside the circle. Possibly using discs that don't fit their hands as well.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Putting is confidence, confidence is practice. Their problems are neither, it is concentration.

I stated weeks ago, that the grind of a season long tour, is a mindset. If the Finnish duo is to compete, they need to have the concentration and temperament to do so....currently they are demonstrating that they do not.

There are many on MPO tour with a skill set equal to McBeth, yet few win as often. It takes more than skill, to be in the mix every week.

I think Eagle, Ricky and Calvin illustrate this.
No one would question that any of these guys have the skills to win any event, anywhere, against any field.

But IMO, when things go wrong for Eagle, it often seems to snowball (especially during a final round) seems to snowball because he doesn't seem to be able to leave it behind him. Calvin faded hard during the last round of 2021 World's.

Ricky seems to have the shortest memory, and it seems to serve him well.

One thing you gotta give McBeth: he seems to handle intense pressure better than just about anyone else in the game (MPO or FPO). I think it has to do with supreme confidence in his ability, focusing on the specific shot at the moment, and situational awareness. At the most elite level of any sport, what happens between the ears is often the difference between 1st and 2nd rather than sheer skill/ability.

 

[biscoe]

Tangentially related- back in the 90's the consensus was that the Europeans (primarily Swedes at that point) both male and female could all absolutely crush discs but could not putt at the same level as the Americans. Other than Tattar it seems that still may be the case.

 

[Jolt]

Wonder if going from winter in Finland to a very hot weather has anything to do with their strange putt misses?

Your putter and hands dont´t really feel the same in snow and the desert. . on a few putts it looks like Eveliinas putter is glued to her hand

 

[ru4por]

Wonder if going from winter in Finland to a very hot weather has anything to do with their strange putt misses?

Your putter and hands dont´t really feel the same in snow and the desert. . on a few putts it looks like Eveliinas putter is glued to her hand

I am not buying it. Henna and Eveliina seem to be struggling with the pressure of high level competition. I predicted this as a potential problem. Coming from dominating the competition, to weekly fields with handfuls of players capable of putting together winning rounds Going on tour, the grind of travel, week after week of pressure to bring their best game. I am not saying they don't have the ability, nor the talent. They seem to lack the experience. Eveliina simply quit at Vista in round three. She got frustrated and checked out. If she want to compete every week, she needs to clean up that head space.

Of the Euro talent, Kristin seems to have the temperament and maturity to become a threat, every week.

 

[Jolt]

I am not buying it. Henna and Eveliina seem to be struggling with the pressure of high level competition. I predicted this as a potential problem. Coming from dominating the competition, to weekly fields with handfuls of players capable of putting together winning rounds Going on tour, the grind of travel, week after week of pressure to bring their best game. I am not saying they don't have the ability, nor the talent. They seem to lack the experience. Eveliina simply quit at Vista in round three. She got frustrated and checked out. If she want to compete every week, she needs to clean up that head space.

Of the Euro talent, Kristin seems to have the temperament and maturity to become a threat, every week.

You're probably right.
Henna played ALOT better that last round, so no doubt she CAN do it…..she just needs to get consistent and play smarter and mor focused

 

[txmxer]

In my short time playing this game, I've found that putting is very finicky. Once you are off, getting back to something that works has been very challenging.

 

[BillFleming]

It is the home of the world's largest fecal vaporizer.

I will say this is an issue. They (the TD's, etc) have tried to get the park to leave the fountain off when the tournament is running....but they won't and it is understandable...that is the focal point of the park. It also looks awesome during coverage.

But the reclaimed water is nasty and while they do turn the fountain off when the wind is above a certain speed....that doesn't always help. I was at Fountain last year for the Memorial, one time the wind was just below the "turn off" speed and my car (on the street near hole 1) got spray on it. I was told by a local to get it washed off as soon as possible as it could damage the finish.

The fountain also creates it's own weather. It adds to the wind in certain spots and you can have the mist/rain coming down.

 

[BillFleming]

Both Terry and Hannah talked about why Henna, Eveliina and Kristin was playing in this event when most top FPO are not. . and they had no good answer. .

But the answer must be quite obvious. . . they are in the US, they can´t go home, so why not play as many tournaments as the possible can?

They are coming from cold areas and Arizona is (usually) warm this time of year. ((That was mentioned quickly as a possibility during one of the rounds)).

 

[BillFleming]

Wonder if going from winter in Finland to a very hot weather has anything to do with their strange putt misses?

Your putter and hands dont´t really feel the same in snow and the desert. . on a few putts it looks like Eveliinas putter is glued to her hand

It may have been wind issues. On video, you can't really tell what the wind is like. Yes, you may see leaves, branches, flags, etc moving....but, unless you are there in person, you can't really tell how the wind is affecting putting. We had some pretty strong winds at times and it wasn't consistent. You could have a strong wind on one hole and then two holes later it was calm.

 

[foxdawg10]

I am not buying it. Henna and Eveliina seem to be struggling with the pressure of high level competition. I predicted this as a potential problem. Coming from dominating the competition, to weekly fields with handfuls of players capable of putting together winning rounds Going on tour, the grind of travel, week after week of pressure to bring their best game. I am not saying they don't have the ability, nor the talent. They seem to lack the experience. Eveliina simply quit at Vista in round three. She got frustrated and checked out. If she want to compete every week, she needs to clean up that head space.

Of the Euro talent, Kristin seems to have the temperament and maturity to become a threat, every week.

The FPO field at Memorial was very thin. Other than Jen Allen, it was Kristin, Evaliina and Henna, the same crew they are used to seeing. At Las Vegas I can see strength of field being an issue but not at Memorial.

I agree Kristin seems to be the best equipped so far. I will be interested to see if Henna and Evaliina clean up their games as the season progresses and they become accustomed to the grind on tour.

 

[elmexdela]

jen allen form is so sloppy

amazes me how far she gets from hodgepodge mechanics

 

[BogeyNoMore]

You're probably right.
Henna played ALOT better that last round, so no doubt she CAN do it…..she just needs to get consistent and play smarter and mor focused

Even though Henna played better the final round, she still missed a lot of embrassingly close putts.

IMO, Cat, Kristin, and Paige, set the pace for the FPO field. I'm not saying no one else can win a tournament if those 3 are playing, but I'll be amazed if those three don't scoop up almost every event.

If Henna straightens out her putting, she'll be right there with the other three. Same for Evaliina. Hailey King and Missy Gannon are right there, too. Hailey needs to be more consistent. I agree with Ru4 the another couple year of maturity will serve those three young guns well.

Henna, Evaliina and Hailey are still pretty young. I suspect they'll shore up their weak spots as they mature. When that happens, you'll have quite a few women who can take down any given even.

Heather Young is up there, too, but she doesn't have the distance to really compete for a win on long, bolf type courses. But I suspect she'll finish at or near the top on wooded courses.

If she could find a bit more distance off the tee, she'd be dangerous, but she and Missy are two of the best putters in FPO.

 

[glassila]

I think circle one putting is close enough that size/strength differences are minimized. Move out to 50-60 feet and I think you start recruiting other muscle groups to help get the disc to the basket.

Think of it this way, if it were simply a matter of lack of strength you'd see a high percentage of made putts within 15-20 feet and drop off as you move back. I would expect when you see people commenting on how FPO putting is not good they're talking about the high frequency of missed 10-15 footers and not 25-30 footers.

In sports like darts, cornhole, billiards where player size and physical strength are not as important you would think that women should be equal to men. In reality they are not. I would bet that the top 20 players in world in darts, cornhole, billiards (and 20 foot DG putts) are all men.
The question is: why are men better at sports where size and strength are not important?

 

[sidewinder22]

Ricky talked about how he gets better leverage and spin on putts due to his large hands.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

In sports like darts, cornhole, billiards where player size and physical strength are not as important you would think that women should be equal to men. In reality they are not. I would bet that the top 20 players in world in darts, cornhole, billiards (and 20 foot DG putts) are all men.
The question is: why are men better at sports where size and strength are not important?

Wasn't there research from MLB's whole juicing scandal that linked testosterone to improved hand-eye coordination?

There could also be evolutionary reasons for those differences. Don't quote me (I don't even play an anthropologist on TV), but, going back to prehistoric days...

Isn't there evidence showing women developed better verbal and social skills, and better ability to muti-task? Whereas men developed more physically, and tended to be more uni-taskers, as you needed to focus more in the moment while hunting prey, to avoid becoming prey yourself?

If higher testosterone levels is actually responsible for improved hand-eye coordination, evolutionary differences could be a part of the differences refererenced by glassilla.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Height and physical strength now matter more for successful putting than in Climo's era and earlier. Now that laser putts are more likely to be caught by baskets with a wall of chains, faster, line drive putts from a higher angle will be more successful because gravity has less time to drop the height, especially on C2 putts. If you are shorter, have less strength or don't throw as hard, your putts will require more loft, possibly nose up where wind may factor in, and accurate distance judgment to hole out.

Human stereoscopic depth perception only goes out to about 18-20 feet. Beyond that, your brain relies on other clues to judge depth and can be fooled. If you're throwing accurate lasers that only drop say 2 inches in height over 50 feet, you essentially don't have to judge distance since you're putting the same way whether the basket is 50 feet, 35 feet, or 20 feet away. However, if you have to putt from those distances with any loft, your lizard brain has to make depth, angle, wind speed/direction and power judgments similar to an artillery officer.

This is why elevated baskets force players back toward artillery officers and away from laser putters.

 

[dehaas]

In sports like darts, cornhole, billiards where player size and physical strength are not as important you would think that women should be equal to men. In reality they are not. I would bet that the top 20 players in world in darts, cornhole, billiards (and 20 foot DG putts) are all men.
The question is: why are men better at sports where size and strength are not important?

I was wondering this myself. We'd expect to see top level MPO talent to be close to 100% inside the circle, but top tier FPO less than that.

I'd agree that being stronger allows you to get the disc to the basket with less effort, which means it's easier to repeat. I'm just not sure if lack of strength negatively impacts repeatability from that short of a distance, no doubt from longer range C2.

I think maybe it's a combination of depth of field and quickest way to have a perceived advantage? We've said before that Paige often wins on sheer distance. She gets birdie looks on holes others don't, and has shorter approaches on par 4's where others are taking two max distance shots. It's a game of least mistakes wins, and shorter throwers are making mistakes to take themselves out of competition before putting really becomes a factor. On a local level they've probably all thrown longer than the competition and never really had to be good at putting.

The MPO field is more evolved in that regard. Any given weekend a ton of players have the raw talent to win, but like we've said a lot of players can't string 3-4 near perfect rounds in a row to actually beat Paul or Ricky.

Ricky talked about how he gets better leverage and spin on putts due to his large hands.

I could see that playing a part. I'm surprised you don't see more FPO players use a shallower putter. I know Holly putts with studs, but that's about the only one that I can easily think of. I wonder if a shallow high glide putter would help anybody over the course of a season?

 

[Cgkdisc]

I wonder if a shallow high glide putter would help anybody over the course of a season?

Classic Roc has done the trick for many in the boomer age range with smaller hands.

 

[EllEstar]

She did not miss the mando. She was simply OB. New rule allows you to take the disc IB further down the OB line. She definitely did NOT take here lie in a direct line from the basked, just further from the basket and then took her meter relief from the OB line.

Sharp play by Allen and unfortunate that Henna was likely not up on the new rule.

I didn't say she missed the mando, I watched it already, I'd like a link to the highlighted that allows you to take it as far back as Jen did. Here are the relevant sections on OB and relief from obstacles.

Spoiler

A. An out-of-bounds (OB) area is an area designated by the Director from which a disc may not be played, and within which a stance may not be taken. The out-of-bounds line is part of the out-of-bounds area. Any area of the course that is not out-of-bounds is in-bounds.
B. A disc is out-of-bounds if its position is clearly and completely surrounded by an out-of-bounds area.
C. A disc that cannot be found is considered to be out-of-bounds if there is compelling evidence that the disc came to rest within an out-of-bounds area. In the absence of such evidence, the disc is considered lost and play proceeds according to 805.03.

D. A player whose disc is out-of-bounds receives one penalty throw. The player may play the next throw from:

1. The previous lie; or,
2. A lie designated by a marker disc placed on the playing surface up to one meter away from the point where the disc was last in-bounds.
The above options for an out-of-bounds area may be limited by the Director only with prior approval from the PDGA Director of Event Support.

Spoiler

At the Director's discretion, the player may additionally choose to play the next throw from:

3. Within the designated drop zone; or,
4. A lie designated by a marker disc placed on the playing surface up to one meter away from the point on the out-of-bounds line nearest the position of the disc.

Spoiler

E. If the position of the thrown disc is in-bounds and within one meter of an out-of-bounds line, the lie may be relocated to a new lie at any point on a one meter line that extends perpendicularly from that point on the out-of-bounds line and passes through the thrown disc. Alternatively, when the thrown disc is within one meter of a corner, the lie may be relocated on a one meter line that extends from that corner through the thrown disc.
F. The out-of-bounds line extends a vertical plane. When marking within one meter of the out-of-bounds line, the one meter relief may be taken from any point up or down on the vertical plane.
G. If a drop zone has been provided for an out-of-bounds area, the Director may allow players to proceed directly to that drop zone at the cost of two penalty throws.
H. The Director may announce relief greater than one meter for particular out-of-bounds areas on a hole.
I. If the thrower moves the disc before a determination regarding its out-of-bounds status has been made, the disc is considered to be out-of-bounds.

Spoiler

A. A player may obtain relief from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: harmful insects or animals, people, or any item as designated by the Director. To obtain relief, the player may mark a new lie that is on the line of play, farther from the target, at the nearest point that provides relief (unless greater relief is announced by the Director).
B. If an obstacle physically prevents the player from taking a legal stance behind the marker disc, or from marking a disc above or below the playing surface, the player may mark a new lie on the line of play immediately behind that obstacle.
C. A player who takes relief other than as allowed above receives one penalty throw.

D. A player may elect at any time to take optional relief by declaring their intention to the group. The lie may then be relocated by marking a new lie which is farther from the target and is on the line of play. One penalty throw is added to the player's score.
E. No penalty throw is added if optional relief is being taken following a penalty taken for a disc out-of-bounds or above two meters.

I was referencing the fact that what she appears to have done is:

1. Gone OB
2. Taken her meter in from the OB line (in any direction in-bounds)
3. Taken optional relief back on the line of play (straight back from the target)

All of these options were available last year, but what would have been different is since she had not passed the mandatory object, it would have been the target that her line of play was on. With the new rules the line of play is always straight towards the basket or object that you use to "hole out", never towards any mandatory object.

If this had been last year her line of play would have given her a worse angle and she would not have been able to take relief as far back before running into OB.

Now, if there's a new rule that allows you to take relief back indefinitely along an OB line then that's probably just what she did, but I didn't find it (and it would be a terrible rule).