~400' BH and ~325' FH Help

[slowplastic]

Yes! Very glad to hear the positive results. It's mostly noticeable in my back foot. I got pretty good at half shifting onto my front side, which works better than nothing - but it left so much of my momentum on the table (only catching it effectively AFTER the disc was gone).

This feeling started clicking hardest once I started doing the perpetual motion drill, then the down shift from the windmill helped alignment and back toes, and then the battering ram pulled it together with the direction of shifting.

Truthfully, the best thing for me mentally was thinking of the backwards telemark ski stop. If you think in that framework- speed of the turn is terrible for your ability to bury your downhill ski and dig into the snow. It's all about loading in behind the ski so that you can bury the inside edge once it's perpdicular to the slope below you. Once I see the throw through this lens, I see it so vividly in Langstrom, Eagle, Simon and Nybo.

Once you can get the disc loaded at center chest with that back knee under your hip: that momentum is coming out the arm on the disc. It feels like a much slower throw with your body, and a crazy amount of arm unloading.

Yeah I think when it's not so miserable out and I can actually throw a lot, I need to do lots of standstills and windmill/downshift stuff. Trying to stay narrow, stay closed, catch everything and let that get the disc to my chest and then have it extend out. When I add in an X-step it's so easy to have my momentum just continually carry targetward rather than use the X-step for its easier loading stage and natural momentum landing in the plant. Keeping the momentum rolling does not help the planting motions that you're describing.

I definitely noticed when I forced myself to just trust these drill balances, like in standstill and 65% power X-step walking, it worked so well. The discs would cover ground much faster than I'm used to. When I let myself just go for any X-step feel I'd go back to old off arm positions, plant far ahead, etc.

Out of curiosity, how far do you throw putters standstill and X-step? I can tell I'm going to need lots of repetition once I'm able to practice, but I was pretty pleased with easy 300' standstills so far. I think my goal would be 350'ish from X-step...that seems reasonable?

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Out of curiosity, how far do you throw putters standstill and X-step? I can tell I'm going to need lots of repetition once I'm able to practice, but I was pretty pleased with easy 300' standstills so far. I think my goal would be 350'ish from X-step...that seems reasonable?

I almost never drive putters for distance, as they all seem more touchy than my mids. I regularly throw my envy 320-325' standstill would be a great rip and I don't think my xstep adds a ton. I would guess, but I feel like mids are 360-375' with the same power. I really haven't measured in a long time, but I do get to compare how far I'm throwing against some long throwing players. I've been able to pretty consistently in the 450-470' range. It takes an act of god to get my disc to 500'.

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[slowplastic]

Got to throw today in warmer than freezing temps...nice to feel my hands and not have rock hard discs. But constant 15+MPH swirling winds.

The distance/velocity increase is real. I can see I'm not fully there yet but things were feeling good. Threw a Destroyer on a pure golf line 425' through that swirling headwind, felt very simple like I didn't strain myself at all to do it. That felt like a true open level shot...not high open...but if I can do that in that wind I'm very happy, especially with the 75-80% input.

So the biggest things I'm feeling are that I'm not wasting my right arm by using it as early as I had been or having the disc slip before ejection. And that my left knee feels like it moves with me under my hip/pelvis rather than getting stopped behind my hip and recoiling. I tried to keep my right shoulder moving as a pendulum underneath in both backswing and forward swing, and I think that helps keep my shoulder ahead of my hip as I swing forward.

I had to just go back to feel today, I was thinking about too much stuff. So on these shots my left arm is doing stuff, and I think in the X-step my plant step is too far? I can see my left knee does come under my hip but it doesn't move all the way forward. I'm guessing I'm just not far forward enough still, that this is an improvement but I'm still not there. I know there are several specifics but I think the underlying reason for them is not being forward enough?

https://vimeo.com/319606062

https://vimeo.com/319606119

 

[sidewinder22]

You are staggering too much and landing too behind your front heel/right tee pad side of your foot.

 

[slowplastic]

Thanks, I think you're absolutely right. I'm stepping out and getting in my own way. Walking through it indoors, I have to try to step narrow or almost backward feeling to stay in line better, and this makes me feel more rotating and less crashing. Rear knee moves better too after the foot leaves the ground.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

A thousand steps.

1. Backfoot is flat footed: you'll lose the "athletic stance" of being toes down on both feet, heels up on both feet. If that back foot is down, you lose the down shift.

2. Especially on an x-step, I do whatever I have to mentally to get that feeling that the back knee is under the hip at center chest. That's the key for me to get the 12-18" of back foot moving forward. Longer stride will make it harder to depart the backside and let it release forward.

3. I like the off-arm on the x-step throw, looks like you're aligning better.

 

[slowplastic]

2. Especially on an x-step, I do whatever I have to mentally to get that feeling that the back knee is under the hip at center chest. That's the key for me to get the 12-18" of back foot moving forward. Longer stride will make it harder to depart the backside and let it release forward.

Yeah I could feel like my back knee was moving "with" me but not coming forward more. I just concentrated on having the balance to keep my back knee/femur with me and the disc was carrying like crazy.

Walking through my motions or going through standstill with a lever, SW is right and if I shift more in line/backward feeling rather than closed I get to my front leg better and I feel my back knee come forward. I can really tell why you emphasize the back knee, I can definitely notice it during my motions and my throws. It's kind of telling me that I'm getting onto my front leg better because it's coming with me.

I'm pretty excited to finally get some velocity boost, this is really going to change my game as I learn what my discs do. I was parking a 325'ish right ending tunnel with a mid thrown head level or Leo/FD thrown chest level, which lets the disc stop on the ground without any fade or ground play. Compare that to smashing a FH Thundy or powering down a FH driver that skips...I can see why the pro's rely on their BH shots so much even if the hole has some right end to it. I thought they didn't trust their FH but now I'm starting to see just how good a BH can be.

 

[slowplastic]

It's taken a few days to get my plant straighter but it's getting MUCH better. Disc feels like nothing when it leverages out and it carries real easy. It feels like my arm and disc are way more in line along the trajectory line during the backswing, and like it's lengthened because I'm not getting in my own way as I plant.

I've noticed my torso/spine is too upright during my X-step when viewed from behind the tee. How much torso tilt/lean over toes should I have if trying to throw a "flat" or touch of hyzer release? I think I'm preventing myself from getting in good positions because I am oversimplifying to flat shots = upright spine, but I now pro's have tilt. It just all works out by the hit point somehow.

 

[sidewinder22]

Sounds like progress.

I think tilt depends on speed just like running or walking or dancing and is dynamic. You tilt your CoG over more to move faster more efficiently in that direction.

 

[slowplastic]

Cool, I'll play around with it. I can tell my standstill is more efficient than X-step but it's getting better and looking better, so I'll keep that in mind as a balance gradient depending on momentum. I bet I'll hit a bit of a roadblock with more hershyzer/butt lead, or else with how much to arc my right foot during plant step. But I can see the main things myself at this point. Looking best it's been, feels like I'm powering mids down to 250' but they are going 300'. Hitting OB longs on 75% power when I'd normally skip/push up to the basket instead on prior good shots.

 

[slowplastic]

I'm getting somewhere I think but I know my balance isn't quite right. I'm starting to feel the tempo in the X-step but I'm getting in my own way still. The behind view wasn't a great shot, but that's probably for the better to show what my error tendency is...high/right in this case of intended path. I think I'm not forward/over the toes enough on my first right step, then I'm not over my left foot enough so I get pushed a bit to the left on my plant still? I can just feel that it's slightly off because I need to go at this pace, I can't do it super slow with the same rhythm.

But the tempo is easier to feel now that I'm not falling to the left as bad as before on my plant stride. It's still significant though because it does affect my swing plane through the "power pocket" position.

Side view shot did feel good, it was 340ish with a Comet, although there was a significant tailwind. A couple shots later threw a Teebird flat 380ish, so that's kind of where I'm at right now on good throws.

https://vimeo.com/334201719

https://vimeo.com/334201795

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, balance and pump are off. You really hooked that one striding right to left into the plant and reaching back/swing forward across your body/stride direction. I think throwing some pure hyzers striding left to right into the plant will help.

At this point in the x-step I want my disc pumped as far forward away from my left foot as possible so they are counter balanced as I'm on the right leg.

 

[slowplastic]

Oh that makes a ton of sense. I've always felt and noticed that my backswing after my forward pump feels a little rushed to initiate, or like I can't let the forward pump flow all the way upward. I just watched some video of pro's vs. me and I believe the root cause is I start with the disc by my trailing hip before pumping forward, whereas most pro's with a pump start at the middle of their body. Even this slight change I can feel a difference in where the disc ends up, I can start leveraging it forward at the same time but its location is very different. Feels more natural just walking through the swing and like I have more room for the entire motion.

I'm guessing my torso is too vertical rather than tilted over toes and stride in that still shot?

 

[sidewinder22]

I think it has more to do with you being more turned open, we can see your right butt cheek and can't see your front shoulder.

 

[Tepi]

Yeah, balance and pump are off. You really hooked that one striding right to left into the plant and reaching back/swing forward across your body/stride direction. I think throwing some pure hyzers striding left to right into the plant will help.

At this point in the x-step I want my disc pumped as far forward away from my left foot as possible so they are counter balanced as I'm on the right leg.

Hmm I've been timing my top of forward arm "pendulum" with my left foot crossing right, with the thought of "equal and opposite". That's how hammer set my body when I tried it.

But when doing with disc I've felt excactly what SP said, rushed backswing which I believe has also led me to do it with my arm instead of body. When I tried this inside without the disc, the way you do it made me feel I have more time for backswing, brain are little confused with it at first tho. Would you advice me to go for this aswell? Is this also something that depends of xstep tempo?

Feel like I need to speed up my xstep if I ever wanna throw far and believe this forward pump has to change with that.

 

[sidewinder22]

Hmm I've been timing my top of forward arm "pendulum" with my left foot crossing right, with the thought of "equal and opposite". That's how hammer set my body when I tried it.

But when doing with disc I've felt excactly what SP said, rushed backswing which I believe has also led me to do it with my arm instead of body. When I tried this inside without the disc, the way you do it made me feel I have more time for backswing, brain are little confused with it at first tho. Would you advice me to go for this aswell? Is this also something that depends of xstep tempo?

Feel like I need to speed up my xstep if I ever wanna throw far and believe this forward pump has to change with that.

I suppose there is some variance with foot stride speed. Pendulums always swing at the same speed and time. My backswing is always the same speed thanks to gravity, and so faster stride pulls the pendulum further back from the fulcrum/shift to front foot.

 

[Mocheez]

During the backswing, should the disc pass over the right foot and under the chin, mirroring the forward swing? I was focusing on that today with a mechanical (but properly sequenced) x-step and was surpassing my regular max-d by a lot. (now I have to figure out how to get my teebird off the top of the park shelter I thought was out of range)

 

[slowplastic]

Ok, I need some direction again. My balance is feeling better in lots of ways but my arm and body aren't syncing up quite right.

I'm trying to stride more laterally and straight to maintain my balance, and turn back later. It feels very open as I'm striding the right foot until I'm nearing the plant...maybe too open initially but at least this is overcorrecting for how I used to have my right foot turned inward as soon as it left the ground.

The last couple sessions I've been having a high % of nose up issues. I think it's from my arm not having the right tempo with the body, as well as my lead shoulder maybe not leading the throw/being forward enough? Like toward the front of the teepad and under my chin enough?

As well what I'm seeing is my backswing is a bit early...I think I start pulling the disc back too soon. The disc is behind my rear foot in the X-step once my feet come apart, and in the backswing it's a good 8-10" behind the foot instead of over the foot. So is my forward pump timing still not right/too behind...and then I should let the disc swing back at its natural pace instead of eagerly getting to the backswing?

Also, I had one shot yesterday where at the "power pocket" area my forearm felt super super heavy. And then I distinctly felt the forearm swing outward in a heavy and connected way, it felt like it could smash through a wall. The disc came out significantly faster than I throw ever, and had way more turn than usual. Is this heavy or connected forearm feeling something to aim for? It was like I felt the forearm lag and swing instead of the whole arm as one thing. Almost like the forearm was the bat and the disc was the ball.

You can see how nose up both of these shots were. Drivers are not good because of nose up recently. Even with nose up the standstill putter was 270ish and X-step Comet was 315ish.

https://vimeo.com/340134030

https://vimeo.com/340133959

 

[RandyC]

Swing arc looks bit off to me, perhaps the grip itself. When the disc lines up with your forearm the natural swing without manipulation should have some hyzer in it. It looks like you are trying to throw extremly flat thus putting your arm in unnatural positions which tends to have nose up releases. I belive there is no "flat" shots, just smaller hyzer angles.