~400' BH and ~325' FH Help

[sidewinder22]

Better on those, you can see a difference in your rear foot not spinning back as far. I think you need more forward tilt coming through, so your shoulder should be more over the toes rather than the heel. Try chasing the left shoulder down the line and walk out the finish like Lee Travino, like I do in the first hammer toss of the hammer toss vid. This will probably feel over the top to you, as you are staying braced too far behind.

 

[slowplastic]

That makes me feel like my sternum gets opened up almost over my toes or outer edge of foot, while my rear leg smashes closed behind me. Feels like Wiggins style how his legs end up and his body gets pulled forward but it's certainly not a tip or collapse. The Lizotte plant arc also just happens naturally if I walk through a slow X-step.

I'll play around with it a bit and then get some more feedback. This feels like so much more BH leverage than I've ever felt, and my body is naturally getting into positions that I haven't had but is common in pro video. I think I'm getting close?

 

[RandyC]

Oh. I think I feel the active hit point...

Duh...same mechanics as forehand and I know I've been told. Just it's easier for me to get shoulder/elbow in front in FH. Suddenly I feel the disc pull through. I feel like I can have my arm straight out in front of my chest and just pop the disc and it would go 150'+ so easily, just like I can pop my wrist and forearm and get a FH shot out like that.

First two swings are how my shoulder/arm/hit has been. The rest are me experimenting with getting the shoulder in front of the hip and the disc has way more power behind it. Obviously I'm keeping it REALLY reigned in so I don't obliterate something.

https://vimeo.com/316218640

https://vimeo.com/316218640^^^^LINK

So twohanded swing the lowpoint is right below your sternum but with a one handed disc golf swing the lowpoint is bit ahead of your front knee? (Shoulder over front hip).

 

[slowplastic]

So twohanded swing the lowpoint is right below your sternum but with a one handed disc golf swing the lowpoint is bit ahead of your front knee? (Shoulder over front hip).

Like when I start feeling the forward motion/leverage/outward arc happening? I think that feels about right.

Two handed baseball swing feels like the arc starts just inside of the knee. With the long lever and considering the goal is ball contact, contact is still made near or past the front foot.

With this one handed/disc golf swing the outward arc feels like it begins outside the front knee. Another case of my reference point being baseball and golf, and one handed swing being surprisingly more forward.

 

[RandyC]

Like when I start feeling the forward motion/leverage/outward arc happening? I think that feels about right.

Two handed baseball swing feels like the arc starts just inside of the knee. With the long lever and considering the goal is ball contact, contact is still made near or past the front foot.

With this one handed/disc golf swing the outward arc feels like it begins outside the front knee. Another case of my reference point being baseball and golf, and one handed swing being surprisingly more forward.

I mean if you were to downswing like in golf, like where the club bottoms out.

 

[qoma]

I mean if you were to downswing like in golf, like where the club bottoms out.

If you are talking about the lowest point of the clubhead, it varies some depending on club and other stuff, but generally under the front shoulder. With irons you hit the ball before the low-point because you want a descending angle of attack, with driver you want to be more level. But the hands and the front shoulder should be moving up and around while the clubhead is going down and out before impact.

 

[slowplastic]

I mean if you were to downswing like in golf, like where the club bottoms out.

Yeah I think that's the same thing from what it feels like for me. The beginning of the outward arc feel would also be when the bottom of a golf club arc happens. Does that sound right to you?

While with a baseball bat contact is often in front of the front leg....the ball is also often pulled like 30 degrees whereas in golf the ball is contacted near to but inside the front foot and hit straight. But the swings feel pretty similar.

 

[slowplastic]

Closer. I think I'm still not far enough forward before I plant. Looking at these swings I can see I end up in the follow through getting pulled forward a little bit more compared to where I start vs. being perfectly on the same balance.

When I try to be like 2" farther forward with my torso I feel like my right ribcage is pinned. I think that sounds right?

Is my back foot motion ok leaving the ground? I realize I'm in socks.

This is the best form and feel I've had though, I'm excited what this way farther forward disc ejection will do for me. I can just try different swim moves, which is the 2nd half of this video. First 2 side and 2 behind swings, then back arm mimicking Lizotte beside thigh, Jenkins swimming behind, classic forward of rear thigh, and Swedish Gurthie style although mine is more of a windmill than a chop. Made me feel like Oakley haha. Any feedback on what is good/bad and if it's useful to learn from these different feels. It's never been so natural to try to incorporate them before though.

https://vimeo.com/316473719

https://vimeo.com/316473719^^^^^LINK

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, you are getting closer to being forward balanced on the front leg. Socks on carpet - eh, socks on hardwood - no bueno. You seem to restrict your backswing, let your head turn back and arm/disc really extend out away from you more relaxed. Your plane looks a lot better than it used to. Your rear arm is going behind your body/back and dragging, instead of the rear arm helping the throw or being out of the way.

Watch how my shoulder swings over the front foot before releasing the lower arm. Practice just standing naturally relaxed on the front leg addressed to the target holding your whole arm extended out with thumb pointed at target for like a minute, if your arm gets tired let your whole body/arm swing taut back and forth right back pointed at target.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

I agree that socks on wood is going to make it impossible to wait long enough, as your foot should be sliding forward.

https://youtu.be/qZnkKpsyRzM?t=35



As it's ski season, I have been skiing a ton backwards to keep an eye on my kids and that's where it clicked so hard that skiing backwards into a hockey stop is a perfect likeness for the pressure and back leg shift... BUT I alpine ski (where the heels are locked down), and if I had to telemark ski (where the heels are free) - then it would be an even better correlation.

Thinking about it like that, you can see why it's important to be connected to the floor in a way that has real friction, otherwise you can't resist enough to get your back leg to end up here in that posture of being forward enough:

The resistance and lagged momentum on my plant foot feels like I'm having the ball of my foot want to rip out the right side of my shoe.

As for the off arm, maybe I am crazy, but I swear to you - I'm using my off arm only to reinforce the angle of my upper body - by keeping hand on the thigh (jarvis style) and trying to wait... wait... wait... to get the trailing knee under by hip with the disc at center chest. I DO NOT WANT MY SHOULDERS OPEN AT THAT POINT! So any off arm action or head looking at the target action is counter to what I am trying to build. I'd much rather have my head lagging the shoulders than vice versus.

 

[slowplastic]

I used to ski before 20+ years snowboarding and I've been cross country skiing a moderate amount over the last 2 years, so that is with heels up. Can't go switch on CC skis, but the fakie right foot forward tele-style stop mentally makes so much sense to me. I can feel that, it gets my chest over my right foot and I feel so dynamically leveraged into my right leg as if I am too far behind the leg...but then if I swing I just follow through instead of getting stuffed.

The off arm is tricky, I think I'm feeling something better bringing the left elbow to my side but at my navel. I had been bringing it to my hip directly and I think that got my arm behind my spine and then trailing incorrectly.

I got to throw a round a couple of days ago, but it was cold and started snowing. Tried to get forward and with a long arm lever, shoulder past hip. When I had it right-ish I easily threw a Leo in the 370' range and got a Tern like 12' high on a 400' laser that was stopped by a bunker. So that is decent results for the weather, I didn't get boosted to huge distance but considering I hadn't played in a month and it was cold, my discs were flying easy and well.

I'll think about this a bit more and maybe get a video out. I want to make it to 450+.

 

[slowplastic]

Not all the way there, but best it's been again. I think I am not far enough forward with right shoulder past balance axis enough, to front of teepad. I think this causes my right shoulder to pop up slightly still, and this is why my head is turned ahead of the throw and nearer to my right shoulder?

I have more tilt toward my toes/instep, or left of teepad when viewed from behind. This is better I think?

Is my rear arm position better?

I really think my swing plane is getting sorted out, no more of the disc/forearm raising up as I reach the "power pocket". The last several videos do not have that happen. That has been solved by getting my right shoulder leveraged in front of the right hip, rather than stuffed/jammed behind it which caused the arm to jam up. I still think I need to get the right shoulder farther forward, while achieving it from the ground up, not over the top.

https://vimeo.com/318268986

https://vimeo.com/318268986^^^^^LINK

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Not sure on embed with vimeo, but here is my vimeo response:

https://vimeo.com/318297217

 

[slowplastic]

Thanks, I think I can feel that. My left forearm stays in and my hand feels like it wants to be glued to my thigh. I've never had that before...I've tried to keep the hand on the thigh or in the pocket, but in this case it naturally goes there after my elbow comes in. I feel very closed/sideways when swinging out too, I think from my right leg feeling like it screws into the ground extra firmly.

 

[slowplastic]

Ok I realize I'm not doing the exact off arm move HUB just told me about, but doing it helped this feel change for me. Which I think is more critical.

Is this balance the right direction?

https://vimeo.com/318313651

https://vimeo.com/318313651^^^LINK

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Hah! You tell me?! Head balanced your head is now stacked and lagging on your spine like Wiggins instead of trying to get your head to open first. That's a big timing change.

It's really hard to say how far I was throwing over the weekend with my buddy Ian, but I was playing long toss catch with him and I know he can throw measured 400' on a rope forehand. I was throwing them flat and sending them over his head and making him run back to get them.

 

[slowplastic]

Hah! You tell me?! Head balanced your head is now stacked and lagging on your spine like Wiggins instead of trying to get your head to open first. That's a big timing change.

It's really hard to say how far I was throwing over the weekend with my buddy Ian, but I was playing long toss catch with him and I know he can throw measured 400' on a rope forehand. I was throwing them flat and sending them over his head and making him run back to get them.

Ha yeah I thought it looked good, like how GG keeps his body sideways and the arm/shoulder come out like that.

I really hope that this lets me get that distance too. 350' out of mids and 400' out of fairways would really help me out, the 450' out of drivers would just be fun for the most part. A few holes would use it, other than the hyzer capabilities of course. The main thing is it would let me stop "needing" to throw 350-400' FH shots which takes a bit more out of me and get squirrelly at that range.

 

[sidewinder22]

Good stuff HUB, I like that backward ski vid, that's shifting from behind, and how you block the pelvis to release the arm/disc like the Olympic hammer throw. The left arm helps pin the pelvis forward and extend the left side upright, Jarvis actually pushes on his thigh from athletic forward tilted position, so the rear hip extends and femur goes under hip and chest goes upright, so the left knee to shoulder is completely upright stacked and leverages the rest of the swing forward. Jarvis rear ski goes "from behind" to counter upper body/arm release, skier rear ski goes "from in front" to actually reverse direction.

SP - That looks better, you are feeling your arm release, but your shoulder isn't forward. Your front foot is turned back too much, and you are still hugging yourself/rounding coming through the transition and trying to swing too early. Your arm/disc is coming back way behind you. Find a corner wall and do the door frame drill with your front toes on the wall, so your arm is straight back behind your foot.

 

[slowplastic]

SP - That looks better, you are feeling your arm release, but your shoulder isn't forward. Your front foot is turned back too much, and you are still hugging yourself/rounding coming through the transition and trying to swing too early. Your arm/disc is coming back way behind you. Find a corner wall and do the door frame drill with your front toes on the wall, so your arm is straight back behind your foot.

Good. It is easily reproducible to get that balance for me, I just feel like I have to make it to where my head is still...feels like it is paused in time for the swing. I feel like I will have lots of ability to play around within this new feeling, it is very easy to get to now that I have felt it.

I noticed my arm/backswing too. I think I am putting my backswing/forward swing momentum between my feet, along with my arm swing, which is diagonal to my trajectory.

So should I try to feel the same weight shift balance but think about my arm in line to the trajectory during backswing? Doing the wall/door frame/inside swing, should I have my stance diagonally closed to the wall and the wall line is my release trajectory?

 

[sidewinder22]

Correct with the Inside Door Frame. This drill only works the first foot or so of the forward swing coming out of the transition from backswing. The wall is actually in the way of the shoulder and elbow coming forward.

Reciprocate the Dingle Arm Pendulum of the right shoulder back and forth underneath and from behind/closed like Eveliina. She really commits to shifting from behind and watching the disc lag back and creates a huge power pocket with the front shoulder closed forward and low and elbow up and out. Her head is turned back even further.

In frame 2 your pocket is collapsed/smushed with the upper arm vertical to your shoulder plane. The disc is behind your body and looks like you are pulling the elbow down into your body with shoulder going up. If your upper arm was closer to horizontal you could bring the disc forward of your center before extending the lower arm. Eveliina has massive width of the arm while the disc is still close to her center her upper arm is nearly horizontal to her shoulder plane.

Note in the finish your left arm has shot through and head/shoulder gone around the foot instead of the shoulder gone straight over the foot where front shoulder went over, and the rear arm still behind with both arms back spreading wings like Federer.