[Axiom] Axiom Envy

[Mike C]

I am going to try and convince MVP to make a reverse stormtrooper soft Envy with a white and black swirled overmold to use as my new putter. Wish me luck

 

[Um...]

Wish me luck

Good luck getting one...



































and then subsequently losing it in some bushes near Southern California so I can find it!

 

[ranger]

I am going to try and convince MVP to make a reverse stormtrooper soft Envy with a white and black swirled overmold to use as my new putter. Wish me luck

cool

I'll take one too

 

[McJesus]

cool

I'll take one too

They'll probably give him the run as a stack.

 

[ranger]

wait, you don't think he'll give one to a total stranger like me?

 

[Halcón]

I just got back from my round. I planned on throwing the Alias, and Envy. Instead it was Servo and Envy.

I never needed the Alias.

This disc has filled a precise hole in my bag that I've needed to fill for a while. It is just as good as the Ion on approaches, but it feels like an approach disc too. It feels great in the hand, on fan, FH, and power grips. The little extra overstability was crucial when I needed a straight shot with fade, or more of a hyzer angle.

I ended up missing some normally easy approaches because I needed some straight/anny type shots and I'd normally use my beat Ion for. But this was not the disc's fault, but more of a learning curve. I didn't anticipate the fade as well as I should have. I'll be going back to my Ion for this shot anyway, so it won't be an issue.

Now that I putt for a full round with it, I can say it is very comfortable in that role also. There was a little bit of adjusting for the grip difference with the Ion , but I never had any problems in the circle.
The highlight of the round was where I canned a 45' par saving putt with the Envy. :thmbup:

After using the Envy on the course, there's no doubt it will be a permanent fixture in my bag. I have a feeling that those who try it will be as pleased as I am.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

BigSky-- heres my issue as it either needs to replace ions all together in order to find a place in my bag or be a littleeee more OS. No way I will carry more then 3 different putter molds and right now I've got Ions/Pa4's and looking for a very OS mold to bag-- as a utility style disc. It doesn't sound like the Envy is OS enough to fill the roll I am looking for in something similar to a zone.

Where exactly does the envy fit into your bag given midranges and other putter options? do you think it could actually replace an ION? I don't bag the tensor and see this disc as being a slower version of it. I imagine MVP puts out an even beefier putter at some point which I think I will wait for but curious how this one will actually FIT in your bag after hearing it will be a permanent fixture there.

 

[throwfromthewoods]

I've tried almost every MVP release. None of them have stuck in the bag. The past few I even stopped having expectations for. I've upgraded myself to "cautiously optimistic" for the Envy. I wish it was a little more on the OS side of the spectrum, but it might still have some use.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

^with a new core I would for sure give this a shot being you didn't jive with other MVP discs.

Personally I love the feel of Ions but think this could be a big hit with those who don't.

 

[Halcón]

No, it's not a Zone. Or even a Pig. The Envy fills the role that the Ion is just not stable enough for. Most of the courses I play have holes that are just out of my reach off the tee, and then too short for a mid upshot. That's why I never touched the Alias today. The Envy was plenty.

It also has more HSS than the Ion. Did you see Mike C rip the Envy, and it held the line? Then he drove the Ion and it turned. The added HSS comes in handy on those longer putter approaches where fade is critical (especially when thrown with a little hyzer). In other words, where you can't afford to have it turn on you, or go too straight.

I don't see it as a slower Tensor. It's not that OS. It could replace the Ion. I can imagine the Envy beating into straight butter. From my round today, I guarantee it'll replace the Ion for at least 4-6 shots per round for me.

FWIW, my bag will be:

E Volt
Amp
Light Servo
N Axis
N Tangent
Tensor
Envy
N Ion

I still need to test the Alias more against the Axis on course conditions before deciding which one suits me better.

 

[Halcón]

The Envy is a unique disc, especially within MVP's products. I also think I should mention that after throwing it more today, it felt a tick longer than the Ion. Not quite a tweener, but the difference was noticeable when really cranking it.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Ok thanks. I really don't have issues with my ions turning over or not going too straight etc (if its really an issue ill throw the resistor or tangent on hyzer powered down) While I think ill get one of these to stick in the truck for those one disc rounds etc it doesn't sound like I have room in the bag. I think its going to be a big hit with "pure" lovers and those who don't like the feel of Ions. I was a biiiiiiig pure fan and would be the first to admit that the Ion wasn't an easy switch for feel or how it flew but prefer it now and always have liked a bigger feeling putter ex. challengers/BB aviars etc.

when you say longer than the ion I have a hard time with that lol.. how far are you maxing these?

 

[Mike C]

It really drives a lot different than the Ion. I just made a slow motion video of the 420' throw I had with one of my testers and it holds straight unlike any Ion I've ever thrown. I've never thrown an Ion/BB Aviar/Challenger that would of held straight on that throw. For me at least I find it has a very good combo of speed, glide and reliability. It's got more D than pretty much any other disc in its class, while still holding up to headwinds and OAT quite well. It's not going to have a spot in everyones bag, but for people that want a moderately overstable approach disc, this is an extremely good disc for that role. If you want massive overstability get a Credo / Pig / Zone, but for reliable precision shots in various wind conditions I can't think of a much better tool for the job.

I think part of the reason it has so much distance potential is that its pretty flat and sleek. It moves faster than the Ion IMO watching them from the tee.

 

[onemilemore]

BigSky-- heres my issue as it either needs to replace ions all together in order to find a place in my bag or be a littleeee more OS. No way I will carry more then 3 different putter molds and right now I've got Ions/Pa4's and looking for a very OS mold to bag-- as a utility style disc. It doesn't sound like the Envy is OS enough to fill the roll I am looking for in something similar to a zone.

Where exactly does the envy fit into your bag given midranges and other putter options? do you think it could actually replace an ION? I don't bag the tensor and see this disc as being a slower version of it. I imagine MVP puts out an even beefier putter at some point which I think I will wait for but curious how this one will actually FIT in your bag after hearing it will be a permanent fixture there.

I know you were talking to BigSky here, but I wanted to offer my experiences with the Envy so far, as well.

I am kind of in the same boat. I use a Judge in the circle and really enjoy the Spike for most upshots - I can take enough off of it to get a little fade, run it, or get a smooth turnover with ease. I really like the Envy - the feel in the hand is amazing, and it gets some easy distance. But I am not sure it is quite as overstable as I want it to be. In order to have a permanent spot in the bag - since I am also not going to carry more than 3 putter molds - it would need to have enough stability to cover that OS utility slot.

So, I am kind of up in the air about what to do. I am going to keep it in the bag for awhile and use it as I see fit. Some days I like to throw hyzer flip drives off the tee, so the Spike will see that work. Other days I want to throw flat, so the Envy will hold that role. But I also want to add an OS utility-style disc, so the Suspect is on the way. When that gets here, I'm not sure what I'll do.

TL;DR - The Envy is a sweet disc, but not OS beef. It's worth trying for fun, but it isn't the OS utility disc you want.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

^good to hear!

MC: Wheres it fitting in your bag? If off the tee it is more "reliable" than IONs but just as workable then I might say adios if we can get production soft neutron . . .

I don't have issues with ions flying straight though even 400' down hill its why I like them you can get that STRAIGHT flght with NO fade, straight with hyzer, huge hyzer, anny.. whateverrrrrz

 

[Mike C]

I view it and the Ion similar to current Volts and FR Volts. Ions show a bit of turn for me powered up (Keep in mind a lot of mine are well used), so I'm usually throwing them with some hyzer, they flip up to flat, and depending on the throw cruise straight or fade late. The Envy I can throw flat, full power, and it won't turn. So that right there makes them very different. I can hit a lot of the same lines with both, but how they do it is different. Say I need a hard 275' hyzer shot, the margin of error would be bigger with the Ion than the Envy (Granted it might be better still to use a mid here). Also the feel is much better for me for FH. The extra stability helps but I generally use controlled standstill flicks when I FH a putter so its mainly about the feel for me.

If you want massive OS utility its not the right disc for that. The Credo I carry is a disc I can forehand full power, the Envy is not (FH is sloppier for me, especially with putters and mids). It takes a lot more effort to hit 300' with a Credo than it does an Envy though. The Envy throws more like a regular putter (Ion, Wiz etc.) in terms of its power demands. It doesn't require a 80%+ driver style throw, but it can handle it.

I wish I lived closer, I feel like as soon as you throw one you'd see what we're talking about. Still doesn't seem like it will fill the OS putter slot you want to fill since you want something way overstable, but I think you'd see why others would like it and the role it fills. Its just a no brainer for those 250' hyzers with a moderate headwind. Easier to control off the tee than the massive OS putters, but quite reliable.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

I don't doubt they made a solid product for a minute just committed to my ions lol. It will be an EASY disc to see for sure on the course given the color combos so who knows maybe there is room for 1 envy and only 2 ions over 3... lol

FWIW i also throw with a LOT of hyzer. i even like to throw my shots which go right on a hyzer. so that tells you where im coming from as far as form and throwing IONS on different angles. Just find it a lot more reliable than flat or anny releases with OS discs (as far as distance goes)

 

[in4d]

Thanks for the write up Mike, always honest reviews from you.

I see the Envy being a great long approach disc for placements and shorter drives, i will probably throw one in the bag for just those shots and stick with my trusty Ions for everything else though.

Mike if you get a chance and feel like shooting some more video i would like to see the envy field tested along side the Ion and Anode on hyzer,flat, and anny releases. Same with the Alias along side the Axis and Tangent.

 

[Halcón]

I'm late getting back to the party...

What Mike and onemilemore have said is true. There's not much I can add.

Aim, I threw the Envy about 220 from a standstill approach shot today and parked it. It felt good thrown at full power.

 

[drblam]

I view it and the Ion similar to current Volts and FR Volts. Ions show a bit of turn for me powered up (Keep in mind a lot of mine are well used), so I'm usually throwing them with some hyzer, they flip up to flat, and depending on the throw cruise straight or fade late. The Envy I can throw flat, full power, and it won't turn. So that right there makes them very different. I can hit a lot of the same lines with both, but how they do it is different. Say I need a hard 275' hyzer shot, the margin of error would be bigger with the Ion than the Envy (Granted it might be better still to use a mid here). Also the feel is much better for me for FH. The extra stability helps but I generally use controlled standstill flicks when I FH a putter so its mainly about the feel for me.

If you want massive OS utility its not the right disc for that. The Credo I carry is a disc I can forehand full power, the Envy is not (FH is sloppier for me, especially with putters and mids). It takes a lot more effort to hit 300' with a Credo than it does an Envy though. The Envy throws more like a regular putter (Ion, Wiz etc.) in terms of its power demands. It doesn't require a 80%+ driver style throw, but it can handle it.

I wish I lived closer, I feel like as soon as you throw one you'd see what we're talking about. Still doesn't seem like it will fill the OS putter slot you want to fill since you want something way overstable, but I think you'd see why others would like it and the role it fills. Its just a no brainer for those 250' hyzers with a moderate headwind. Easier to control off the tee than the massive OS putters, but quite reliable.

Sold! Now I want one...so sell me one of your extrees, mista!