Axis of Evil

[discspeed]

I'm wondering if it will fly much like a Buzzz SS. I know MVP doesn't want to compare, but I sounds too similar - broken in Buzzz with more glide.

I also wonder if the gyro effect will keep it from losing altitude on anhyzer throws. Is there a breakdown of the physics of this technology already posted? I'm curious to know how it affects flight on all angles of release, as well as more or less snap/more or less power.

EDIT: I might have found my answer on Discspeed's facebook review of the Vector (I did a google search) "...which tends to make discs fly with a more forward dominant flightpath regardless of the angle the disc is flying on." - that makes sense, and it's what I was expecting.

It seems like this technology is stretching out the distances that can be reached with slower molds. However, I still don't think this will solve the problem of kids wanting to throw champ bosses on a 270' hole. Anyway, what I like about this (and I don't even own any MVP yet...) is that it's progressive and stepping out of the box. It only makes sense to make physics work for you in this sport.

I don't think it's going to compare too closely to the Buzzz SS besides stability. The Buzzz SS is a little faster than the Buzzz, and the Axis is a bit slower. The Axis also has a concave wing, and the Buzzz SS has a flat wing. That means essentially they will fly a little different on all release and nose angles.

Regarding your question about losing altitude on the anny like the Buzzz, Chad said that it holds it's altitude and just pans to the right. The gyro effect will be much stronger than on the Vector as the Vector's overstable shape negates some of the forward penetration, especially on a hyzer angle.

 

[discspeed]

I just thought of something. Is MVP using the same material that they use on the Ion overmold with the vector and axis? I just figured that since it is meant to help grip the chains with the Ion, maybe they could change the material that would be more beneficial to that gyro effect and possibly be more durable (not that it is lacking in durability as is).

I'm pretty sure MVP's overmold are already as gyroscopically weighted as they can possibly be without sacrificing durability or weakening the bond between the two plastics. After using Vectors for the past few months, I honestly would not want them ANY more durable. As it is it takes months to see a difference in flight, and those differences are still small. I also think the black plastic on the outside helps lessen kicks/ricochets with the mids like it does with the Ion.

 

[jubuttib]

The only way I've managed to scratch up the overmold on my IONs has involved throwing them at sharp metal objects. Nothing I've done on the course has left a mark on them.

Even if the overmolding didn't give any gyroscopic advantages I'd still support it because it keeps the rim of the disc from getting roughed up better than any single plastic solution I've seen apart from Vibram rubbers and floppy putter R-Pro.

 

[Living_Sacrifice]

So is this going to be like the Ion? 1st run is different from the 2nd.

 

[discspeed]

So is this going to be like the Ion? 1st run is different from the 2nd.

MVP has come a long way since the FR Ions. The last run of Ions was by far their largest and most consistent run, and they are more consistent in shape and flight than any other discs out there. The Vectors have been coming out perfect as well. So I expect the first run of Axes to represent what they will fly like in subsequent runs.

 

[Jozzz]

So is this going to be like the Ion? 1st run is different from the 2nd.

MVP has come a long way since the FR Ions. The last run of Ions was by far their largest and most consistent run, and they are more consistent in shape and flight than any other discs out there. The Vectors have been coming out perfect as well. So I expect the first run of Axes to represent what they will fly like in subsequent runs.

Wrong thread, but I have to ask those in the know...

I have taken a hiatus from my P2s and returned to the Ion. What is the physical difference between the first and second runs? Is it the textured bottoms? I have a soft textured (no stamp), medium textured (w/ stamp), and the newer soft Proton plastic. I have really grown attached to my Proton plastic Ion, as I think it flies a little more consistently and feels better in my hands.

 

[jubuttib]

They're all Proton plastic, they just changed the colorant to a translucent one from the old opaque one recently.

The First Run IONs were the orange overmold/blue core light ones (~165g) that came out with uneven overmolds and very obscured beads, and flew much more understable than any run after that. They also had a HUGE flash (soft though, didn't scrape your hand) and the bottom was smooth, not textured.

EDIT: Chad, I seem to recall that the overmold plastic was called Electron, is this right?

EDIT2: Found it! Was a Marshall Street reference.

This sets up to be a potentially great idea for the ION, because MVP will be able to change the flexibility of the putter with the blue part (Proton Plastic), while keeping the same grippy, red "overmold" that wraps around the edge (Electron Plastic) for whatever flexibility they decide to go with in the future.

Also here.

 

[cmrichar]

They're all Proton plastic, they just changed the colorant to a translucent one from the old opaque one recently.

The First Run IONs were the orange overmold/blue core light ones (~165g) that came out with uneven overmolds and very obscured beads, and flew much more understable than any run after that. They also had a HUGE flash (soft though, didn't scrape your hand) and the bottom was smooth, not textured.

EDIT: Chad, I seem to recall that the overmold plastic was called Electron, is this right?

EDIT2: Found it! Was a Marshall Street reference.

This sets up to be a potentially great idea for the ION, because MVP will be able to change the flexibility of the putter with the blue part (Proton Plastic), while keeping the same grippy, red "overmold" that wraps around the edge (Electron Plastic) for whatever flexibility they decide to go with in the future.

Also here.

All Ions are in our Proton line. We now have established it with our transparent colors, same plastic.

All our current discs will not have the same experience the Ions had. It was our first disc and have since then buttoned up all our tolerances and will always have a defined and systematic process. This means all runs, first runs and production runs will all fly the same within our manufacturing standards. The red overmolded Ions were our first discs we have ever made intended for public sale. We have no intentions of ever making these again, so hold onto the first run Ions you may have with a tight grip.

Edit: Before we introduced any other models we had thoughts of this. However it was going to cause too much confusion and redundant use of terms. We have kept our Proton line as our constant and this is unique to both of the materials that are used in creating our golf discs, and not electron.

 

[discspeed]

I just got back from the course after giving my Axes a thorough workout. I played Taylor Park, and the way the course is set up currently there are only two holes in which a driver is the best choice, so it was a perfect place to test the Axis.

I threw on straight, anny, flex, and hyzer shots at varying heights from distances between 250'-350'. Simply put, this is the best mid I've ever thrown and probably my favorite disc already. It's as if someone interrogated me for hours talking about the best mids of all time (Roc/Comet/Buzzz) and how to somehow combine them into the perfect disc, and then went and did it. I was excited to get this disc and I had huge expectations...Even so, I'm still a little surprised by just how good it is. It is like a faster/midrange version of the late run medium textured Ions. It has a teeny tiny bit of high speed turn, not even enough to flip from a flat throw under 350', but enough to hold whatever micro angle you put on it. The flight reminds me more of a faster Roc than it does a Buzzz because it is much more forgiving of nose angle and it is also not height sensitive. Even though my lightest Axis is heavier than the mids I normally carry, I had no trouble throwing it flat and high above trees....It was SOOO much easier to do this with than the Buzzz is, but at the same time it also excels at low ceilings. It is totally point and shoot...From 100' or 350'. It is the easiest disc to just pick up and throw at a basket that I've ever used. It also has a more dependable LSS than the Buzzz, starting a tick earlier in the flight, but much more forward dominant rather than a dump fade. It is much easier to range due to this. I played through the course nearly 2 times and parked every hole in range of the Axis...Not just approximate drives that got me in putting range, but shots that flew exactly how I visualized them and ended within 10' of the pole.

I love the Ion and I've also grown quite fond of the Vector, but I must say that the Axis is going to prove more revolutionary than either. It is every bit as versatile as the Vector is consistent, all while not being the least bit touchy. It has all the greatness of the Ion, but is much more applicable as everyone drives with mids (and not everyone actually throws their putter). I can't wait until this disc gets into more hands as it is going to cause a real freak out.

 

[discspeed]

This disc is basically the answer to the Buzzz/Roc debate...

 

[jubuttib]

Fuck you discspeed. Seriously. Fuck. You. Do you know how long I'm going to have to wait before I'll get my hands on them?

 

[turso]

What the fucking fuck? Just as my love for comets just deepends, you have to come out with news that there's a disc that has the best qualities of the best mids on the market and none of the bad ones? What the shit. I need to think about this long and hard.

 

[Jeronimo]

Remember guys, he's sponsored.

 

[discspeed]

Remember guys, he's sponsored.

...and he's dumb, and a drama queen. :lol:

 

[discspeed]

This is the only disc that I've been in the ear of a disc designer about for years, so I must admit I already have an unnatural affection for it. It's got roots in the culmination of all the Rocs vs. Buzzzes vs. Comet threads, and has aspects of design that each of those molds is lacking. It's faster and glides a little better than the Rancho as it has a more rounded top and less bead. It has better glide, a more consistent LSS, and a wider cruising speed than the Buzzz because it has a bead and glidier top. It's stability and glide is similar to a Z Comet, but it's faster, more wind resistant, and works different lines better. Even in feel, the Axis most resembles the Buzzz despite having a bead(the main reason many take up the Buzzz is the feel). You just don't feel the bead in your grip.

Even though I love the Ion, it was the Axis that I saw in my crystal ball before I ever even joined with MVP. I don't know if Chad remembers or not, but discussion of the possibilities of a neutral mid with their technology was one of the first things I brought up when I met him. I know my expectations made him nervous at times during the Axis development, but my god has he come through!

 

[jubuttib]

A straight flying mid has always been the center of my game (I will much rather try to throw right at something than let a hyzer drop there, and usually prefer hyzer or anhyzer to over or understability). I found my holy grail with the original orange P-MD2's, briefly. They are still my favorite discs, but almost impossible to find any more of, and there will not be another run like them (both the nose and the wing were mis-molded, that ain't happening again). Now you're saying that MVP has come up with basically the same thing, except in premium plastic, added gyroscopicness and made by the most consistent company in the business.

The offer is tempting, but I'm going to have to throw them myself before I'll believe it. The grip won't be the same but if the flight matches...

 

[Fightingthetide1]

This is the only disc that I've been in the ear of a disc designer about for years, so I must admit I already have an unnatural affection for it. It's got roots in the culmination of all the Rocs vs. Buzzzes vs. Comet threads, and has aspects of design that each of those molds is lacking. It's faster and glides a little better than the Rancho as it has a more rounded top and less bead. It has better glide, a more consistent LSS, and a wider cruising speed than the Buzzz because it has a bead and glidier top. It's stability and glide is similar to a Z Comet, but it's faster, more wind resistant, and works different lines better. Even in feel, the Axis most resembles the Buzzz despite having a bead(the main reason many take up the Buzzz is the feel). You just don't feel the bead in your grip.

Even though I love the Ion, it was the Axis that I saw in my crystal ball before I ever even joined with MVP. I don't know if Chad remembers or not, but discussion of the possibilities of a neutral mid with their technology was one of the first things I brought up when I met him. I know my expectations made him nervous at times during the Axis development, but my god has he come through!

Chad can thank you for MVP getting it's first dollar from me...next paycheck. I'm stoked on this, because I picked up the Buzzz for the way it feels in the hand (like you described), but I'm experiencing all the issues you just said. I just thought those were the norm, so I didn't think they were "issues". The worst part is, I told myself I would stick to the molds I currently have for a while. So much for that.

 

[Monocacy]

Fuck you discspeed. Seriously. Fuck. You. Do you know how long I'm going to have to wait before I'll get my hands on them?

I'll wager an Axis that you get one before I get a 165.

I am so looking forward to trying a Roc - Axis midrange lineup. DX Roc for fades, headwinds, distance control, and those magic glide-around-the-corner shots that they do so well. If the Axis is like the Ion, learn to make it do everything else.

That's the plan, anyway. No hurry, Chad. Tap. Tap. Tap . . . :wink:

 

[turso]

I have hard time believing the glide is comet-like before I see it though.

 

[Monocacy]

I have hard time believing the glide is comet-like before I see it though.

Even if the Axis is all that, the Comet might stay in the bag for certain courses that require particularly Comety shots on certain holes. I would like to stick with two midrange molds, though - throwing a lot of different discs definitely messes with my consistency.