Breaking Bad Timing Habit

[Melonhusk]

Ok, so I totally did not see the implications of the steering wheel thing. I was in my car, and was reminded of it again, and then next time I could get my hands on a disc I tried really pretending like I was turning a steering wheel clockwise. It's not just about the uncoiling of the wrist for extension: it externally rotates and drops the shoulder as you plant. Am I understanding that right?

If so, that's probably nothing new or revelatory I guess, but it does seem like a great swing thought to have for those purposes, I'm definitely gonna try that out.

 

[Melonhusk]

Tuesday I had what felt like a big breakthrough, after this video:



really made something click. It's just the same feeling as the doorframe drill, but for some reason that mental image of the theraband attached from my elbow to my lower lats was the "feel" I could reproduce on the course. I was finishing balanced on my right foot or stepping to the right every time, I could really feel the stretch in my lats, and I was throwing a lot harder than I'm used to, even pre-injury.

I was hoping the feeling would stick with me, but no such luck. Filmed a round today and while I think some shots were better than others, overall nothing really felt quite like the other day - and on some I just fully reverted to my old "pulling" habits. I do think I've made some progress on rocking my hips, and in the Ricky steering wheel feel, but I was also getting the sequencing wrong pretty much most of the time I think. Lots of shots pulled right - from my upper body coming forward too early, is what it looks like to me. Do any of these shots look like I'm "slinging"? Close? Man I wish I had film from Tuesday.

 

[NoseDownKing]

Tuesday I had what felt like a big breakthrough, after this video:







really made something click. It's just the same feeling as the doorframe drill, but for some reason that mental image of the theraband attached from my elbow to my lower lats was the "feel" I could reproduce on the course. I was finishing balanced on my right foot or stepping to the right every time, I could really feel the stretch in my lats, and I was throwing a lot harder than I'm used to, even pre-injury.



I was hoping the feeling would stick with me, but no such luck. Filmed a round today and while I think some shots were better than others, overall nothing really felt quite like the other day - and on some I just fully reverted to my old "pulling" habits. I do think I've made some progress on rocking my hips, and in the Ricky steering wheel feel, but I was also getting the sequencing wrong pretty much most of the time I think. Lots of shots pulled right - from my upper body coming forward too early, is what it looks like to me. Do any of these shots look like I'm "slinging"? Close? Man I wish I had film from Tuesday.

Not an expert, but looks really clean.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

 

[Melonhusk]

Not an expert, but looks really clean.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

Thanks!

 

[sidewinder22]

Just looks flat footed throughout x-step with too much knee bend and rear arm/weight late. Extend your knees so your feet can push your hips.

 

[Melonhusk]

Got some more video today - still bewildered how everything seemed to click out of nowhere a few weeks ago (the one day I couldn't film of course), and now I'm back in the dark. I will say though, I do think I am starting to "get" the door frame drill. I can replicate the feeling of my shoulder shooting forward after being wound up without the aid of a door frame now, and I now understand how it helps to train the ideal swing - but as soon as it's actually time to throw I forget everything.

I was struggling with a lot of early releases, which is interesting as usually it's the opposite for me. I could tell partway through the round that my upper and lower halves were not really in sync, so I tried to get more "shifty running back" - quicken my feet to catch my shoulders at the peak of the backswing. But maybe my backswing just needs to be later, too?




Another thing - I was trying for more extension in my back leg, but it seemed like every time I would think "more extension" I would do the schusterick/earhart knee slam thing off my heel. That was always in my practice swing, I don't think I ever threw like that exactly - but I was struggling to get more extension off my instep.

 

[sidewinder22]

Get taller going into x-step with right leg/knee extending.

 

[Melonhusk]

Gotcha, interesting, is that just to help get me moving down the tee pad more athletically?

 

[Melonhusk]

Alright so I tried to get taller on my right leg, and I also tried to incorporate some cone tossing and some bow loading. I think I was getting a feel for it in my standstill teeshots; putting it together with the x step was hit or miss. It was really hard to relax my shoulder and just allow it get pulled back while also moving dynamically down the teepad, but when I did it successfully I threw really hard. I think my plant leg was probably getting a little squishy? Anyway, here's the video, broken up by standstill/xstep and how good the shot felt out of the hand.

 

[oldmandiscer]

The thing I see is that you could delay your turn back longer, try looking at the target while your weight is on your left foot in the X-step. It's only a fraction longer then you are, but will delay your shoulders coming forward "early" and give your hips/weight shift time to power up into the throw. Getting that rubber band effect of turning the shoulders back while the weight shift and hips power forward.

I could see you getting another 50 feet if you get into better timing.

 

[Melonhusk]

The thing I see is that you could delay your turn back longer, try looking at the target while your weight is on your left foot in the X-step. It's only a fraction longer then you are, but will delay your shoulders coming forward "early" and give your hips/weight shift time to power up into the throw. Getting that rubber band effect of turning the shoulders back while the weight shift and hips power forward.

I could see you getting another 50 feet if you get into better timing.

Yeah, that's what I find hardest for sure. I can tell when it happens; the disc either squibs out of my hand or goes way right. I've never had much luck with a swing thought like "delay"; that always seems to get me stuck leaned too far back, like instead of delaying just the swing I delay everything. It seems like I've done better with a cue to move into the plant quicker instead. But that feels super uncomfortable, and I very rarely get it right. I do think SW's tip to get taller on my right leg helped in that regard, though - I felt like I was being propelled quicker down the teepad. Thanks for the advice, though! I don't know if I've tried specifically to look at the target while on my left foot, I'll give that a go next time.

 

[sidewinder22]

Still bending your rear knee into anterior pelvic tilt. Your knee is way over your toes instead of stacking more over ankle. Your knee motion is almost backwards from Doss. Note how stacked and balanced and relaxed Doss is on the rear foot and knee turns back away and extends pushing/driving rear hip/butt targetward "from behind". Your rear knee is pinching in and can't turn your rear hip/butt to target.

In Buttwipe Drill, do not bend your knees to put butt on wall, you need to shift your center of gravity back toward your heels to put butt on wall like falling on butt or sitting.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139973

 

[Melonhusk]

Woof, yikes. Did not even notice how much I was bending my back leg inwards and not shifting from behind. I have noticed the anterior pelvic tilt; I'm not sure if that's something that I can correct in my swing intentionally (I've tried before but been confused) or if it's something I need to do exercises for, like that last video you posted. I sit all day for my job, and have occasional lower back pain so I'm guessing it's the latter. Unless, is there something you do intentionally to have a more neutral pelvic tilt? Or does it just come naturally?

As for that back leg issue it looks like taking my focus off of shifting from behind for one week led to that aspect of the throw falling apart. Too many fires to put out!

I think this idea:

you need to shift your center of gravity back toward your heels to put butt on wall like falling on butt or sitting.

has been tough for me. I know this isn't what you mean, but when I try to put that thought into action it leads to me knee slamming off my back leg. That's clearly not what Doss is doing, he's staying on his toes/insteps (until he plants), but I can see his weight is more back. It's tough for me to be towards my heels but not on them! Thanks as always.

 

[sidewinder22]

Woof, yikes. Did not even notice how much I was bending my back leg inwards and not shifting from behind. I have noticed the anterior pelvic tilt; I'm not sure if that's something that I can correct in my swing intentionally (I've tried before but been confused) or if it's something I need to do exercises for, like that last video you posted. I sit all day for my job, and have occasional lower back pain so I'm guessing it's the latter. Unless, is there something you do intentionally to have a more neutral pelvic tilt? Or does it just come naturally?

As for that back leg issue it looks like taking my focus off of shifting from behind for one week led to that aspect of the throw falling apart. Too many fires to put out!

I think this idea:


has been tough for me. I know this isn't what you mean, but when I try to put that thought into action it leads to me knee slamming off my back leg. That's clearly not what Doss is doing, he's staying on his toes/insteps (until he plants), but I can see his weight is more back. It's tough for me to be towards my heels but not on them! Thanks as always.

I think it's more a balance issue causing your posture issue to react to out-of-balance condition.

I would say knee slamming is better direction to move toward, and you might also be feeling or seeing something that ain't real, or maybe some other issue leading a knee slam like tight hips or balance.

 

[Melonhusk]

I think it's more a balance issue causing your posture issue to react to out-of-balance condition.

I would say knee slamming is better direction to move toward, and you might also be feeling or seeing something that ain't real, or maybe some other issue leading a knee slam like tight hips or balance.

I see, I did some of the tests in the golf pelvic tilt video and as far as I can tell I actually have ok pelvic mobility. My core might be a bit weak, but I had no problem "spilling the water" in either direction and I found that just engaging my core and obliques during the backswing created a different feeling, so maybe that's all I need.

As for knee slamming, that's good to know and I'll try that. The issue I ran into was when I focused on maxing out back leg extension I would roll off my heel like Brian Earheart or latter day Will, but those were also on practice swings, not full speed swings; if I tried full speed my body might do something different with that swing thought. We'll see! Thanks again.

 

[Melonhusk]

I was trying out a new "feel" for my shoulder and arm the other day; I've been frustrated with my shoulder for so long, how it always seems to pop up around my ear no matter what I try, and I figured there must be something fundamental I just wasn't getting. This new feeling made the throw feel like the disc was being squeezed through a tube, popping out at the end with what felt like more force than usual. It also seemed to make my balance better; I always finished either over my plant leg or stepping off to the right. It's definitely different, and I think it might be better. I was focusing on that so much that my x steps were pretty bad. I also couldn't figure out how to reach back high while still having this new feel, and it all just felt a little herky jerky and awkward.

I put some forehands in there too, I've been working on them but not seeing a ton of improvement over time, the same issues just seem to come up again and again. Right now I'm having a lot of trouble throwing drivers, they seem to slip out early all the time.

 

[sidewinder22]

1. Keep your rear knee forward of the rear ankle.

2. Swing your front shoulder back behind your rear knee. You need to hinge forward/relax at your rear hip to allow the shoulder to swing back. Your rear hip is extended pushing your shoulder/s over the top your hips.

 

[Melonhusk]

Ah, yeah I see what you mean. I know the feeling you're talking about, but I never thought about it as relaxing that rear hip, that's helpful. I think I'm often susceptible to that when throwing anhyzers, like I'm trying to do in the left panel above - I think because I'm telling myself to "lean back". When I hinge over like you say, I feel like I'm setting up to throw a hyzer, so I feel like I have to do something extra to get the right angle - but in the right panel your posture looks like you're set up to throw flat-anhyzer, and I can still see the hinge. Anyway, thanks!

 

[Nick Pacific]

The thing I see is that you could delay your turn back longer, try looking at the target while your weight is on your left foot in the X-step. It's only a fraction longer then you are, but will delay your shoulders coming forward "early" and give your hips/weight shift time to power up into the throw. Getting that rubber band effect of turning the shoulders back while the weight shift and hips power forward.

I could see you getting another 50 feet if you get into better timing.

I agree with this. One more thing that I would mention that has helped me with timing tremendously is late acceleration.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112483

If you're having trouble with your timing one of the common problems is that you're accelerating too early and fast in your throw which is causing your momentum and therefore shoulders to plow forward way to early. Late acceleration will help with your timing.

 

[Melonhusk]

I agree with this. One more thing that I would mention that has helped me with timing tremendously is late acceleration.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112483

If you're having trouble with your timing one of the common problems is that you're accelerating too early and fast in your throw which is causing your momentum and therefore shoulders to plow forward way to early. Late acceleration will help with your timing.

Yeah, whenever I'm struggling with late releases it seems like this is at the root of it.





The power was mostly there I think, but man did I have a lot of early releases. I caught myself a few times getting too much over my toes, failing to do this:

In Buttwipe Drill, do not bend your knees to put butt on wall, you need to shift your center of gravity back toward your heels to put butt on wall like falling on butt or sitting.

but towards the end of the round, I think I was pretty much just gassed and I was late releasing everything. Then I tried a few times to get a good drive on the finishing hole and pulled everything, trying too hard.