[Innova] Caiman

[ArtemisClydFr0g]

Discsport here in Sweden have 37pc of Frontline-X Mortar in stock, and only 5 Euro in shipping

But is the Mortar really that close to a Caiman? . .i have a few of the Pink Grow Mortar and i was thinking of trying a FR Caiman just for fun

Mortar has more glide in the Frontline-X plastic than a Star Caiman, but they are very similar.

 

[Stable]

I've got a 175g Champion Caiman (flat) & when it was new it showed that 5.5 speed out of my hand. As it's worn in a bit I've noticed it's gotten more sluggish. I didn't notice this with the BuzzzOS & for the time being I've switched back to it. Caiman is still great but I didn't expect that.

 

[Riverdog]

It's all a matter of arm speed and use pattern. I use a Zone and Caiman in similar situations on approaches. Caiman (164g) if I need glide, Zone (also 164g) if I want plop, 90% touch forehands on both. I'm 67 and both are outstanding touch discs. I used a Recon Mortar for a while (169g) and at my arm speed and use pattern definitely didn't get glide. [emoji41]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Alexplz]

It's all a matter of arm speed and use pattern. I use a Zone and Caiman in similar situations on approaches. Caiman (164g) if I need glide, Zone (also 164g) if I want plop, 90% touch forehands on both. I'm 67 and both are outstanding touch discs. I used a Recon Mortar for a while (169g) and at my arm speed and use pattern definitely didn't get glide. [emoji41]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is kind of crazy the level of glide you can get out of the Mortar vs some of these other OS options.

The Mortar and the Caiman are compared pretty regularly, but they are surprisingly different. Innova has the fast OS upshot disc slot covered with the Caiman - interested to see if they can figure out something slower and OS. AviarX3 seems like a good option, if not a little deep when compared to the Zone etc.

Personally I rock a Rhyno/Mortar combo for that brick/glidey OS coverage.

 

[ArtemisClydFr0g]

It is kind of crazy the level of glide you can get out of the Mortar vs some of these other OS options.

The Mortar and the Caiman are compared pretty regularly, but they are surprisingly different. Innova has the fast OS upshot disc slot covered with the Caiman - interested to see if they can figure out something slower and OS. AviarX3 seems like a good option, if not a little deep when compared to the Zone etc.

Personally I rock a Rhyno/Mortar combo for that brick/glidey OS coverage.

The slower speed makes the AviarX3 much more valuable for short upshots than a 4-speed Zone or Harp, in my opinion. It is deeper, but still comes out clean. If I need something faster, I go to the Caiman (or Mortar if that's what I'm bagging at the time).

I personally can't imagine bagging both a Zone and a Mortar.

 

[Alexplz]

The slower speed makes the AviarX3 much more valuable for short upshots than a 4-speed Zone or Harp, in my opinion. It is deeper, but still comes out clean. If I need something faster, I go to the Caiman (or Mortar if that's what I'm bagging at the time).

I personally can't imagine bagging both a Zone and a Mortar.

I would not bag a Zone and a Mortar, especially not a more mild, glidey Zone. However I will admit that they do fly like a putter and a mid respectively, with the mortar having more lateral movement overall regardless of stability.

I would for sure rather bag one or two Zones, or alternatively a slower AX3 or Rhyno plus a faster Caiman or Mortar. :hfive:

 

[mostlynorwegian]

Picked up a Champ Caiman in a hazy mint green. 'Softer' feeling, and seems more prone to scuffing than any of my other champion discs. Flat, just like my Big Jerm Mortar which it is in competition with for that spot in my bag. So far. I like the Caiman a bit more. It seems to get more distance (easier) which takes care of the overlap problem I was experiencing with carrying the Mortar and the Aviarx3.

 

[Stable]

Picked up a Champ Caiman in a hazy mint green. 'Softer' feeling, and seems more prone to scuffing than any of my other champion discs. Flat, just like my Big Jerm Mortar which it is in competition with for that spot in my bag. So far. I like the Caiman a bit more. It seems to get more distance (easier) which takes care of the overlap problem I was experiencing with carrying the Mortar and the Aviarx3.

The Champion Caiman is really good. I've done a fair amount of work between my Caiman, Drone, BuzzzOS & Zone. The Caiman just feels the best for my FH grip & that keeps the consistency.

 

[dehaas]

I've got a pink protostar star caiman that I throw once in a blue moon. Are the flatter champs any more beefy? I've felt a few of the opaque flat champs and they seem nice. Or thrown either compared to the croc? Felt up a few crocs and they've got a bit of a weird shape but look like they'd be beefy. Felt some flat ones, but also saw some domey ones.

 

[Casey 1988]

I've got a pink protostar star caiman that I throw once in a blue moon. Are the flatter champs any more beefy? I've felt a few of the opaque flat champs and they seem nice. Or thrown either compared to the croc? Felt up a few crocs and they've got a bit of a weird shape but look like they'd be beefy. Felt some flat ones, but also saw some domey ones.

Try a Metal flake Gator, those have the least amount of glide of any disc I have seen.

 

[Alexplz]

Picked up a Caiman today to try out as a complement to my Rhyno throwers as I explained above - may prefer it over the Mortar, we shall see.

One way or another these are some really dang comfortable discs for a FH grip. Innova, give us some straight and flippy re-imaginings of the Caiman and Mortar - just push that PLH dooooown a little.

 

[Riverdog]

Picked up a Caiman today to try out as a complement to my Rhyno throwers as I explained above - may prefer it over the Mortar, we shall see.

One way or another these are some really dang comfortable discs for a FH grip. Innova, give us some straight and flippy re-imaginings of the Caiman and Mortar - just push that PLH dooooown a little.

Hope it works for you in that slot. For me the Caiman is a glidier Zone for touch shots in the shiite. [emoji106][emoji41] FH here as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Twmccoy]

I tried a Caiman on the course for the first time today. Champion, 175g. Given the name of the disc, the comparisons to the Gator are obvious. Gator is listed at 5, 2, 0, 3, while the Caiman is listed at 5.5, 2, 0, 4. Based on what I saw today, I agree with the numbers for the Caiman.

The Caiman seems slightly faster than the Gator despite having the same rim width and depth. There is a bead on the Caiman, but it's smaller than that on the Gator. Caiman has a very slight dome. My 1 Gator is flat to the point of being concave.

Honestly, the Caiman reminds me of a Zone, but slightly smaller diameter. It has a fairly clunky, glideless flight. No matter how hard I hammered on the Caiman it didn't seem to respond well with remarkable distance. This thing seems to fall out of the air like a rock when it starts losing momentum. I like the hand feel on the Caiman as well. The bead is barely detectable.

On the course, I was using the Caiman and Zone for the same shots.... and getting almost the same results. The Caiman was shorter and more overstable than the (Get Freaky) FLX Z Zone I had it against today. The Caiman works well on upshots or short tee shots where accuracy is a must. The disc lands softly and sticks. No ridiculous skips, bounces, or rollaways.

Top distance with the Caiman was probably 320'. I didn't really try to mash it out for max distance at any point. The Zone was flying further with less effort.

Conclusions: The Caiman seems to fly as the numbers say. This is a good disc for short, accurate drives or upshots. The Caiman is very predictably overstable, and has a hard late fade. Glide is minimal, and this disc won't get pushed around much by wind. My only real gripe about the Caiman is that it can't be pushed hard for any extra distance. On some shots I felt like I smashed this thing only to have it land stubbornly short. The Caiman might be the lowest gliding midrange I've ever thrown. I get better distance out of the Gator than the Caiman. The Gator fades later and less harshly. IMO, the only noteworthy difference between the Caiman and Gator is that the Caiman has a much smaller bead. Caiman is definitely not a disc for new players or noodle arms. This seems like a disc for very specific shotmaking.

I recommend the Caiman. I liked everything it did today, and I was getting it close to the basket easily on short par 3's. That said, It isn't going to boot the Zone out of my bag.

 

[Riverdog]

I tried a Caiman on the course for the first time today. Champion, 175g. Given the name of the disc, the comparisons to the Gator are obvious. Gator is listed at 5, 2, 0, 3, while the Caiman is listed at 5.5, 2, 0, 4. Based on what I saw today, I agree with the numbers for the Caiman.

The Caiman seems slightly faster than the Gator despite having the same rim width and depth. There is a bead on the Caiman, but it's smaller than that on the Gator. Caiman has a very slight dome. My 1 Gator is flat to the point of being concave.

Honestly, the Caiman reminds me of a Zone, but slightly smaller diameter. It has a fairly clunky, glideless flight. No matter how hard I hammered on the Caiman it didn't seem to respond well with remarkable distance. This thing seems to fall out of the air like a rock when it starts losing momentum. I like the hand feel on the Caiman as well. The bead is barely detectable.

On the course, I was using the Caiman and Zone for the same shots.... and getting almost the same results. The Caiman was shorter and more overstable than the (Get Freaky) FLX Z Zone I had it against today. The Caiman works well on upshots or short tee shots where accuracy is a must. The disc lands softly and sticks. No ridiculous skips, bounces, or rollaways.

Top distance with the Caiman was probably 320'. I didn't really try to mash it out for max distance at any point. The Zone was flying further with less effort.

Conclusions: The Caiman seems to fly as the numbers say. This is a good disc for short, accurate drives or upshots. The Caiman is very predictably overstable, and has a hard late fade. Glide is minimal, and this disc won't get pushed around much by wind. My only real gripe about the Caiman is that it can't be pushed hard for any extra distance. On some shots I felt like I smashed this thing only to have it land stubbornly short. The Caiman might be the lowest gliding midrange I've ever thrown. I get better distance out of the Gator than the Caiman. The Gator fades later and less harshly. IMO, the only noteworthy difference between the Caiman and Gator is that the Caiman has a much smaller bead. Caiman is definitely not a disc for new players or noodle arms. This seems like a disc for very specific shotmaking.

I recommend the Caiman. I liked everything it did today, and I was getting it close to the basket easily on short par 3's. That said, It isn't going to boot the Zone out of my bag.

I'm with you pretty much down the line.... except for the glide. Granted I don't throw anything close to 175g except when my weedeater pisses me off. I throw 163-164 in both Caiman's and Zone's. To get that weight in Zone's it's Soft X which is the plastic that I like best for my purposes. Caiman's are 'blizzardy' Champ. I use both almost exclusively for midrange and in flick touches. At those weights and plastics the Caiman is my go to for glide. Too many field aces to count with both. Oh and one 'real' ace on a 200ish blind, slightly downhill tee skip shot and one steeply downhill 170ish tommy skip ace, both with the Caiman. [emoji106][emoji41]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BuzzzChief]

Yea that's strange to me too, I find Caimans to have more glide than a Zone. They fly like broken-in Gators for me.

I normally carry a super-overstable Gator and a much-straighter JB Zone. When I carry a downsized bag I'll replace the Gator/Zone combo with a single Caiman, it splits the difference in overstability and flies a little further than either one.

 

[Twmccoy]

I'm with you pretty much down the line.... except for the glide. Granted I don't throw anything close to 175g except when my weedeater pisses me off. I throw 163-164 in both Caiman's and Zone's. To get that weight in Zone's it's Soft X which is the plastic that I like best for my purposes. Caiman's are 'blizzardy' Champ. I use both almost exclusively for midrange and in flick touches. At those weights and plastics the Caiman is my go to for glide. Too many field aces to count with both. Oh and one 'real' ace on a 200ish blind, slightly downhill tee skip shot and one steeply downhill 170ish tommy skip ace, both with the Caiman. [emoji106][emoji41]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah, my Caiman is also that blizzardy type plastic. It doesn't glide.... at all. Innova rates this thing's glide as 2, and I agree. I can throw the Caiman accurately, but not far. It doesn't glide, and wants to fade pretty early in flight.

 

[hawgdriver]

I tried a Caiman on the course for the first time today.

Best post in this thread, man, just read them all. Killer review and spot on. Except there's that uncertainty to the glide with which I agree to the follow-on comments, it's got sneaky glide that contradicts the "2". But overall, in my mind this is a slightly more comfortable Zone that does Zone stuff.

I just did a search about the Caiman because I'm kind of shocked, all 1 year of my discin' talking here, that the Caiman doesn't get more love when the Zone is like...so sexy or something.

Same disc is my thought, but McBeth put his stank on the Zone and no one will...ahem...Champion a Caiman.

You ask me, this is a top tier molded plastic circle.

Someone on InfiniteDiscs reviewed the Caiman and said it was oddly unreliable in winds. To me, Destroyer and Firebird and Felon and Buzzz and DD2 are mad reliable in strong winds. I think maybe I threw a Caiman once and was kind of surprised at unexpected aerodynamics. Or maybe that was a dream.

I'm bagging Pigs now based on the Wysocki principle, but I wonder if he's wrong and maybe we should all be bagging Caimans.

 

[wolfhaley]

I'm bagging Pigs now based on the Wysocki principle, but I wonder if he's wrong and maybe we should all be bagging Caimans.

Rick would probably throw a Caiman 500. He's throwing Pigs 350 or so it seems lol.

 

[BuzzzChief]

Sexton was bagging the Caiman for a while. I haven't seen a recent ITB so maybe not anymore. The Caiman is back in my bag since I lost my favorite JB Zone.

I am really loving the Caiman again, I find that once broken in it's sneaky long for a utility midrange. It's getting the majority of my reps on forehand approaches, and overstable tee shots in the 240-280' range. I can push it further if needed, but it's usually easier to just throw a Firebird.

 

[wims]

Isnt the Caiman speed 6? Is it wide diameter or is it just a fairway driver posing as an approach disc?