DGPT: 2019 Discraft's Portland Open presented by Bevel Craft Brewing May 25-27

[Three Putt]

Lol, it just struck me that if it wasn't for the camera thing we would be dissecting McMahon's reaction to his putt rolling out on 18. Instead we are still talking about the camera. McMahon owes Hammes dinner for that.

 

[Consult20]

I'd be curious to know how close to the back of the tee the producer feels is acceptable for a camera to be at. Or is there a guideline put in place for media in this respect?

Watching Jomez camera guys bent over following the players back and forth on the tee pad is actually pretty amusing. As long as the players don't object, to me, it's a non issue.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

In this case, Terry Miller kinda fueled the debate by getting a little upset on the broadcast. If he goes "A little frustration there from Hammes" and drops it, it probably doesn't get as much play as it did when he started wondering on air if it's an offense worthy of a fine.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Terry didn't drop it, because he knew it would make compelling conversation and increase interest, which I can't blame him for. The biggest issue seems to the be the lack of transparency of what led up to and after the confrontation. Simon made a post last night that flies in the face of what JVD has been saying here. He stated that the camera operator and Adam were "talking crap all round". Also, the camera operator telling Adam that he's "blowing up on smashboxx" was def to razz him as well.

I don't believe the camera operator positioning and subsequent following for reaction is a problem in the slightest. The smacktalking and cover-up of that, is still a lingering issue for me tho. I do know Hammes is a hothead and have seen it in person but I really think he was prodded a bit.

 

[Flick Maniac]

Has Drew always had that odd change of rhythm in his putt? Like he almost goes with a fluid motion, catches himself midway, and then accelerates rapidly to make up for the pause? Just looks weird. He's not putting terribly though, it just catches my eye every time on the Portland coverage. Kinda reminiscent of the Schusterick hitch.

 

[Three Putt]

Has Drew always had that odd change of rhythm in his putt? Like he almost goes with a fluid motion, catches himself midway, and then accelerates rapidly to make up for the pause? Just looks weird. He's not putting terribly though, it just catches my eye every time on the Portland coverage. Kinda reminiscent of the Schusterick hitch.

I'm so old and used to watching hippies and rednecks playing disc golf that Gibson wanders in the frame and my mind goes "what is the roadie for Social Distortion doing there?" :\

I didn't even notice the hitch until you mentioned it.

 

[Steve West]

Here are the performance tracks for MPO.

To me, it appears that whatever was generating the scores could not distinguish among players of this caliber. Drilling down further, I found out that random big (two or more over mode) scores overwhelmed the ability of the course to distinguish great from almost as great.

Specifically, among these players, if all the double (or bigger) bogeys had been single bogeys, the correlation to ratings would have been 8 times as good.

That certainly makes for drama and not knowing who will win until the very end. However, I wonder how long the top pros will want to make the effort to put those last finishing touches into their skill set when – once they achieve a certain level of skill - they're essentially playing in what looks like a dice-throwing contest.

Spoiler

 

[Flick Maniac]

Gotta say, the course was pretty boring. Without OB, total snooze fest. Now many holes look like virtual holes only, in the wide open, hit short grass youre golden. The play however was anything but boring.

 

[Lazerface]

I agree with this wholeheartedly. Terry didn't drop it, because he knew it would make compelling conversation and increase interest, which I can't blame him for. The biggest issue seems to the be the lack of transparency of what led up to and after the confrontation. Simon made a post last night that flies in the face of what JVD has been saying here. He stated that the camera operator and Adam were "talking crap all round". Also, the camera operator telling Adam that he's "blowing up on smashboxx" was def to razz him as well.

I don't believe the camera operator positioning and subsequent following for reaction is a problem in the slightest. The smacktalking and cover-up of that, is still a lingering issue for me tho. I do know Hammes is a hothead and have seen it in person but I really think he was prodded a bit.[/QUOTE

I looked up the post you referred to. I take this "talking crap" as friendly banter. If it was some sort of awkward razzing from the camera man Simon's sentiment would of reflected that. Adam was obviously genuinely pissed in that moment, and that happens. Terry is partially to blame, but his reaction was to that single encounter. Like us, he wasn't on the card and lacked context. When you read Simon's post it really brings everything down to earth and makes you realize how silly the internet gets.

From Simon's FB

"Holy moly the internet needs to relax. I can't believe how much attention this Adam Hammes thing got. He's freaking 20 years old. The camera guys out there are not just camera guys doing their job. We hang out with them all the time, see them almost every week. They're buddies. We're all just out there trying to do our best. The camera man was doing his job and there was literally no room for him to move behind the teeing area. Adam would never push or touch a camera that wasn't handled by a friend. They were talking crap all round. The camera man was right to film his reaction. How is that even a question?!? Adam did nothing wrong. The situation was taken out of context and way over analyzed. Relax �� "

 

[Royalhghnss]

How rare is it that the first and second place comes from the second card? . . i can´t recall when that happened last

3rd too (a tie)! I can't remember it ever happening.

As far as winners, I can only remember 2 chase card comebacks. Paul at Idlewild last year, and a couple years ago at BSF where he forced a playoff from the chase, and then won.

I'd be curious to know how close to the back of the tee the producer feels is acceptable for a camera to be at. Or is there a guideline put in place for media in this respect?

We just do the best we can. My personal goal is to be as close as possible w/o being in the way of their runup.

A lot of the time there isn't very much room behind the pad, and if it is it's taken up by players/caddies. I think that the Adam thing happened on hole 13? Not much room on that one.

Has Drew always had that odd change of rhythm in his putt? Like he almost goes with a fluid motion, catches himself midway, and then accelerates rapidly to make up for the pause? Just looks weird. He's not putting terribly though, it just catches my eye every time on the Portland coverage. Kinda reminiscent of the Schusterick hitch.

no, that's a new thing. Nate and I noticed it doing commentary too. FWIW he was putting better than I've ever seen him putt. So maybe it's working?

 

[Steve West]

DGPT - Discraft's Portland Open presented by Bevel Craft Brewing, FPO Performance Tracks

Spoiler

 

[ballgolfconvert]

It's like you guys purposely misread JV's explanation so you can act outraged.

Actually not at all. There was zero remorse in his posts. No mention that maybe the cameraman shouldn't be that close to players in the first place. It all read that the player was wrong and the cameraman correct which I do not agree with. I agree the player overreacted but i know I always swat at bugs reflexively that fly in my face. Position him to the right of the tee, behind the tee, just somewhere other than inches from the players. The cameraman should not be in the same area as the players as they prepare to throw in the first place . Showing disrespect to the players by doing so is a much greater offense than this reactionary action by the player and cameraman positions need to be looked at carefully by the PDGA. If the director won't do it, someone needs to. Respect for the players will enhance coverage and not diminish it.

 

[DanJon]

Hammes loves to talk crap as well guys.

I played with him years ago on a card and I shanked one off the tee on a long tunnel shot and he said: "oh that's going to be a 6."

I ended up saving Par, but the kid didn't show much restraint the rest of the round, to the point of me having to warn him.

 

[DanJon]

Actually not at all. There was zero remorse in his posts. No mention that maybe the cameraman shouldn't be that close to players in the first place. It all read that the player was wrong and the cameraman correct which I do not agree with. I agree the player overreacted but i know I always swat at bugs reflexively that fly in my face. Position him to the right of the tee, behind the tee, just somewhere other than inches from the players. The cameraman should not be in the same area as the players as they prepare to throw in the first place . Showing disrespect to the players by doing so is a much greater offense than this reactionary action by the player and cameraman positions need to be looked at carefully by the PDGA. If the director won't do it, someone needs to. Respect for the players will enhance coverage and not diminish it.

Ok bud, cool take.

 

[Three Putt]

Gotta say, the course was pretty boring. Without OB, total snooze fest. Now many holes look like virtual holes only, in the wide open, hit short grass youre golden. The play however was anything but boring.

There was a spot on the lead card commentary where they basically said "Oh, no. That's headed for the middle of the fairway." They couldn't even pretend that there was any sort of challenge to the hole.

 

[BuiltTooLong]

I looked up the post you referred to. I take this "talking crap" as friendly banter. If it was some sort of awkward razzing from the camera man Simon's sentiment would of reflected that. Adam was obviously genuinely pissed in that moment, and that happens. Terry is partially to blame, but his reaction was to that single encounter. Like us, he wasn't on the card and lacked context. When you read Simon's post it really brings everything down to earth and makes you realize how silly the internet gets.

Did you see Adam Hammes' post after that round? Nothing about his post made it seem friendly at all. He calls out the cameraman's lack of professionalism.

 

[aredoubles]

Just curious, what did people think about this course back in 2014? Was it considered Worlds-caliber then? I was pretty excited to watch this tournament to see the course, and came out of it really disappointed.

 

[JC17393]

Just curious, what did people think about this course back in 2014? Was it considered Worlds-caliber then? I was pretty excited to watch this tournament to see the course, and came out of it really disappointed.

To be fair, "Worlds caliber" meant something different in 2014 than it does now because Worlds had a different format and different criteria for hosting back then. But yes, it was considered championship caliber then. It was the featured course where the final rounds were played. At over 10000 feet and par 66 (SSA around 63 for 2/3 rounds), not sure why it shouldn't still be considered as such.

Just because it doesn't come across well on video doesn't mean it's not a very good course for this level of tournament.

 

[jvphobic]

Actually not at all. There was zero remorse in his posts. No mention that maybe the cameraman shouldn't be that close to players in the first place. It all read that the player was wrong and the cameraman correct which I do not agree with. I agree the player overreacted but i know I always swat at bugs reflexively that fly in my face. Position him to the right of the tee, behind the tee, just somewhere other than inches from the players. The cameraman should not be in the same area as the players as they prepare to throw in the first place . Showing disrespect to the players by doing so is a much greater offense than this reactionary action by the player and cameraman positions need to be looked at carefully by the PDGA. If the director won't do it, someone needs to. Respect for the players will enhance coverage and not diminish it.

I have no remorse with this, nor was I trying to hide anything. No remorse because I don't feel the cameraman did anything wrong being in the position he was on that hole. As Ian said, it is a very tight teeing area and everyone was bunched up. The cameraman is a golfer as well and if he was in a bad position for a player they should have and COULD have asked him to move.

As far as the "crap talking", I was unaware of any communication between the two guys before the incident. But I do know that they know each other, and I don't know how close their relationship is. But it sure sounds like it was a back and forth and not just a one way deal according to Simon.

Did Terry make a bigger deal than it needed to be? Maybe. But Terry also knows Hammes (we are all from WI) and Hammes has a reputation already locally. So maybe that played into it a bit as well. But I do know that he didn't make a deal of it to drum up drama.

At this point, I am mostly done with this topic. It has already been more distracting to a really great event and finish than it needed to be. And I don't think there is any more info that I can add that I haven't already.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Just curious, what did people think about this course back in 2014? Was it considered Worlds-caliber then? I was pretty excited to watch this tournament to see the course, and came out of it really disappointed.

To be fair, "Worlds caliber" meant something different in 2014 than it does now because Worlds had a different format and different criteria for hosting back then. But yes, it was considered championship caliber then. It was the featured course where the final rounds were played. At over 10000 feet and par 66 (SSA around 63 for 2/3 rounds), not sure why it shouldn't still be considered as such.

Just because it doesn't come across well on video doesn't mean it's not a very good course for this level of tournament.

Probably doesn't help that there was pretty much zero wind for Sunday and Monday. That would have added some drama, imo

 

[JC17393]

Probably doesn't help that there was pretty much zero wind for Sunday and Monday. That would have added some drama, imo

Probably. I don't know if it was the rain on Saturday or the lack of wind the last two days, but there was a three throw difference in the ratings for round 1 versus the last two rounds. SSA for round 1 was 66, but for the other two, it was a hair over 63. But either way, an SSA over 60 suggests to me that it's a high caliber course.