[Dynamic] Dynamic Discs Making Their Own

[DiscJunkie]

If Innova or Discraft stopped selling or changed their contractual relationship to DD because of DD's disc manufacturing, they would be open to legal action for monopoly behavior.
They couldn't legally stop selling to DD, even if they wanted to.

 

[Apoth]

If Innova or Discraft stopped selling or changed their contractual relationship to DD because of DD's disc manufacturing, they would be open to legal action for monopoly behavior.
They couldn't legally stop selling to DD, even if they wanted to.
\thread

The same thought occurred to me, but I don't know enough about the topic to opine on it so I stayed quiet.

 

[Pwingles]

If Innova or Discraft stopped selling or changed their contractual relationship to DD because of DD's disc manufacturing, they would be open to legal action for monopoly behavior.
They couldn't legally stop selling to DD, even if they wanted to.

Im not entirely sure there are any contracts to speak of. And if there were, DD changedthe entire scope of their business, that would certainly void anything like that, i would think.
Are speaking from a standpoint of direct knowledge or are you assuming? I have talked with several retailers and have never been aware that any "contract" at least one binding them together in that regard existed

 

[tbird888]

Bags for sure and discs for sure, clothing is weird, if say UB made cam a shirt, it would also have to have innovas logo, see what im sayin?

A handful of players wanted to rock prodiscus bags and couldnt because they made discs and innova/dc wouldnt allow it

In the case of Prodiscus, yes. I heard that Innova pros next year aren't allowed to carry/wear anything but Innova products when they're available. This means that Avery and Val, despite being a part of Grip, won't be able to carry their bags. Maybe I misunderstood that, but that's what I meant (non disc manufacturers will now be off limits too). Maybe they can bypass it by having an Innova patch or embroidered logo put on theirs or something, but I was lead to believe that if there's an Innova product available, it's to be used.

I could've misunderstood how strict the rules will be. It certainly wouldn't be the first time.

 

[Apoth]

Im not entirely sure there are any contracts to speak of. And if there were, DD changedthe entire scope of their business, that would certainly void anything like that, i would think.
Are speaking from a standpoint of direct knowledge or are you assuming? I have talked with several retailers and have never been aware that any "contract" at least one binding them together in that regard existed

There is likely some document governing the manufacturer/retailer relationship, but even if there weren't, a contractual relationship still exists. The contract is just based upon oral terms.

 

[Pwingles]

You said oral *butt-head voice*

 

[Apoth]

You said oral *butt-head voice*

Sorry. I'm a lawyer. I also say "dicta" a lot, too.

 

[Pwingles]

In the case of Prodiscus, yes. I heard that Innova pros next year aren't allowed to carry/wear anything but Innova products when they're available. This means that Avery and Val, despite being a part of Grip, won't be able to carry their bags. Maybe I misunderstood that, but that's what I meant (non disc manufacturers will now be off limits too). Maybe they can bypass it by having an Innova patch or embroidered logo put on theirs or something, but I was lead to believe that if there's an Innova product available, it's to be used.

I could've misunderstood how strict the rules will be. It certainly wouldn't be the first time.

I think you understood it the same way i did. Gonna be different seeing tha champ with a comp bag or w/e

 

[scarpfish]

Im thinking of it like this. Theyre taking innova stuff, selling it, using the profit to directly compete with them by having their own brand made. Makes no sense. They may be a small threat to their business if any threat at all but, its the principle of the matter. Why compete against yourself? Which is essentially what they (innova/dc/whatever) would be doing.

Okay. Explain why Amazon does it then.

http://www.amazon.com/Google-Nexus-Tablet-16-GB/dp/B008M04V1E
http://www.amazon.com/Apple-iPad-MD...UTF8&qid=1356042717&sr=1-1&keywords=ipad+mini

If they get a markup on every Innova or Discraft disc they make as a retailer, they're still making money like they did before. What they're probably figuring is that people placing an order for their favorite non-DD molds will buy one or two of the DD molds to try them out.

 

[tbird888]

I think you understood it the same way i did. Gonna be different seeing tha champ with a comp bag or w/e

Indeed. I'm wondering what Barry will do without his Go Cart. Talk about a huge loss of competitive edge for his aging body. Maybe Innova will come out with a cart of their own.

 

[DiscJunkie]

If Innova or Discraft stopped selling or changed their contractual relationship to DD because of DD's disc manufacturing, they would be open to legal action for monopoly behavior.
They couldn't legally stop selling to DD, even if they wanted to.

The same thought occurred to me, but I don't know enough about the topic to opine on it so I stayed quiet.

Im not entirely sure there are any contracts to speak of. And if there were, DD changedthe entire scope of their business, that would certainly void anything like that, i would think.
Are speaking from a standpoint of direct knowledge or are you assuming? I have talked with several retailers and have never been aware that any "contract" at least one binding them together in that regard existed

A retailer is given a Price List/Catalog every year and it contains some rules for selling discs. I believe there is language that says if you sell Innova Discs, you agree to abide by this contract.
So yes, there is a contract.
Next, I have no direct legal knowledge and I am not a lawyer, but the anti-trust/monopoly case against Intel went along lines that are very similar.
When Intel started raising prices and refusing supply to any business that used AMD processors because AMD a competitor and Intel began to refuse to honor past relationships with AMD because of competition with AMD, they were sued for anti-competitive behavior and ultimately lost.

You cannot refuse to sell to someone because you see them as a competitor.
It's called anti-competitive behavior. You also can't price preferentially (below cost) or too high to drive someone out of business.

It's difficult to prove and Companies usually settle out of court, but I'm fairly sure that it would be illegal for Innova to stop selling discs to competitors for the purpose of hurting their competitor's business.

 

[Pwingles]

A retailer is given a Price List/Catalog every year and it contains some rules for selling discs. I believe there is language that says if you sell Innova Discs, you agree to abide by this contract.
So yes, there is a contract.
Next, I have no direct legal knowledge and I am not a lawyer, but the anti-trust/monopoly case against Intel went along lines that are very similar.
When Intel started raising prices and refusing supply to any business that used AMD processors because AMD a competitor and Intel began to refuse to honor past relationships with AMD because of competition with AMD, they were sued for anti-competitive behavior and ultimately lost.

You cannot refuse to sell to someone because you see them as a competitor.
It's called anti-competitive behavior. You also can't price preferentially (below cost) or too high to drive someone out of business.

It's difficult to prove and Companies usually settle out of court, but I'm fairly sure that it would be illegal for Innova to stop selling discs to competitors for the purpose of hurting their competitor's business.

lol, you absolutely can, maybe the phrasing here is not perfect. But the way you say it, I think is wrong

 

[dehaas]

have there been any more people out there tossing the escape? i was curious to hear comparisons from those who have thrown it and the saint...didn't know if a heavier escape could serve as the more overstable compliment to the saint.

 

[Plankeye]

BTW, McBeth is keeping his Innova sponsorship and is also being sponsored by Grip.

 

[SteezeOG]

have there been any more people out there tossing the escape? i was curious to hear comparisons from those who have thrown it and the saint...didn't know if a heavier escape could serve as the more overstable compliment to the saint.

I have both and throw them both. Maybe I have a more stable Escape than others but they are quite different for me in flight despite the profiles being very similar. My GL Saint is very straight. Not a lot of turn but not much fade either.

The Escape I have when thrown flat will turn some but have a lot more fade at the end. It has been giving me similar results to a slightly beat in C-PD.

I can't say how similar the escapes are flying across the weights and colors but my domey yellow 173g has plenty of stability to make it compliment my saint.

 

[dehaas]

cool, that's kind of what i was hoping to hear.

distance is pretty similar between the two? maybe a touch less with the escape since it has more fade?

 

[EL-KABONG]

I have never seen less interest in a release of discs/new brand on here in a long time...kinda surprising

 

[New013]

at some point we're all going to get jaded by all of the new **** coming out and go retro. it's the circle of life.

 

[scarpfish]

I have never seen less interest in a release of discs/new brand on here in a long time...kinda surprising

Well, hey, we only have 450 replies in this thread. :\

I think the fact that there are four discs coming out instead of one means they are all stealing each other's thunder a bit. MVP and Vibram started with one disc each and built their line around that. That, and they had something different in terms of materials or molding process. The DD discs aren't that revolutionary, but if players like them, they'll have staying power.

It should be stated that Lat 64 and Discmania didn't exactly roar out of the gate either, but now that they are established, people now anxiously await their next release.

 

[jenb]

Does anyone know when the fugitive and escape are scheduled to be released in the classic plastic? A DD sponsored pro told me it's going to happen, but he didn't say when.