First form check!

[drk_evns]

SW images nail it.

I never think about wide-narrow-wide or wide rail or anything like that anymore. I'm always just feeling that imaginary extra weight when I'm swinging and slinging it.

When I practice with weights my swing is totally vertical and loose (like SW's throw or a Swedish style). My actual throw is much more elbow-centric and "American" but it translates very naturally without much conscious thought. It's less about what your arm is doing and more about how your body is setting up to whip it.

 

[Brychanus]

Your shoulders open up and your release point looks off to the right. Go outside and see what it takes to actually throw the dumbbell straight. Should get that shoulder closed.

Yeah, your swing is on the wrong diagonal path / open, instead of the closed \ diagonal swing path/battering ram. A heavy swing will swing/pull back behind you more, don't try to manipulate a heavy swing into a "wide reachback". Let it go.

Thanks guys - again cannot thank you enough. I'm going to take the dumbbell and my heavy mallet outside next chance (I'm on a city plot so I need to go to the field or my neighbors may lose a window).

This will be hard work and I have **** to fix that SW showed that will affect outside tosses so I got started freewheeling inside. I might have had some success getting the arm loose & fixing the weighted swing here. I stuck with the narrow stagger stance since it seemed to make the problems more obvious to my body. I just gripped each object more naturally to help relax my arm. I had to keep resetting inside swing posture over and over and try again (Drake, I guarantee you that I will try to throw this **** with my quads if we don't fix it lol), but maybe I made some progress by the end here. Trending better/ready to toss, or back in the shop?





Swings: mostly for my benefit. I'm working on inside posture in setup with pendulum or cradle pump. I added a little more stagger in the narrow stance setup to help connect w/ the drill feel. Whether I land more or less quaddy or strong arm seems related to how well I pump/set up/relax the initial stance in either style (eg somewhat more quaddy/over the top in throw 1 here) so hopefully working it out in hammer toss may help that too. I prefer the relaxed cradle pump in x-step at this point but can work on whatever:



Glutes aren't tiring as quickly anymore. Hammies are functional but getting tired, monitoring it.

SW images nail it.
I never think about wide-narrow-wide or wide rail or anything like that anymore. I'm always just feeling that imaginary extra weight when I'm swinging and slinging it.

When I practice with weights my swing is totally vertical and loose (like SW's throw or a Swedish style). My actual throw is much more elbow-centric and "American" but it translates very naturally without much conscious thought. It's less about what your arm is doing and more about how your body is setting up to whip it.

Thanks man - I'm (fortunately) also not actually thinking about wide-narrow-wide etc, but the arm is clearly getting too involved on its own. Only thing I'm minding here is that the weighted swing is still forward and back relative to the body on a steep plane (which I believe is what SW typically advises since depending on what vertical means it can **** up tilt and ground pressure, been there done that), but loosening up and not manipulating it with the arm to force a swing path etc.

 

[sidewinder22]

Use more stagger with the heavy swing.

Take a bigger first step in x-step and toward east, and step left foot more east or straight behind right foot if you step right foot west enough. Your feet are crossing the streams.

 

[Brychanus]

Use more stagger with the heavy swing.

Take a bigger first step in x-step and toward east, and step left foot more east or straight behind right foot if you step right foot west enough. Your feet are crossing the streams.

lol

X-step: if I'm visualizing/walking it out correctly this is more like Catrina or Simon's pattern. I immediately got more torque loading up from the first step & a heavier crush just walking it out from that starting stance.

Heavy swing stagger: want to see more east-west, north-south, or both?

 

[sidewinder22]

lol

X-step: if I'm visualizing/walking it out correctly this is more like Catrina or Simon's pattern. I immediately got more torque loading up from the first step & a heavier crush just walking it out from that starting stance.

Heavy swing stagger: want to see more east-west, north-south, or both?

Diagonal stance - both.

 

[Brychanus]

Use more stagger with the heavy swing.

Take a bigger first step in x-step and toward east, and step left foot more east or straight behind right foot if you step right foot west enough. Your feet are crossing the streams.

Diagonal stance - both.

Here's weighted swing with two stagger depths (as you probably expected this also made the tilted axis in inside posture feel much clearer). I kept my legs relatively straight so I could feel the hammy load.

X-step: trying to mitigate crossing streams. I took the first step larger and more East, then tried to keep taking it East in the second step. Not sure you're in love with the first move. I could tell there's more momentum and good torque coming up the chain this way. Feels very cool. When I did it slow I could feel my body swap to "quad mode" more often than not as I land on the 2nd/3rd step but not every time. In the plant my weight landed behind, ahead of, or on top of the plant leg across reps so that may improve as other things do.





Hammies are spent so hopefully I'm up for more grinding tomorrow or the next day.

 

[sidewinder22]

Weighted swing looks much better!

I meant to say West on the first step, actually said it both ways lol.

 

[Brychanus]

Weighted swing looks much better!

I meant to say West on the first step, actually said it both ways lol.

Excellent! I'm going to keep working these diagonal swings and toss 'em next opportunity.


X-step: I think you're trying to get my body to set up the momentum/hips/torque more naturally in transition. I will try a bit of West 1st step East-or-straight-behind 2nd too, that makes sense now lol

Do you think trying East 1st then more East 2nd step also valid for me as long as I'm not crossing lanes?

 

[Brychanus]

WOW - yeah dude I'm going to work East-East and West-East hard. Still a little "quaddy" of course here but these feel way better in transition and for the first time it looks like the Ride the Bull part is transferring without micromanaging it. Last update on this today I swear lol

 

[drk_evns]

Yeah you can see visible improvement in that heavy backswing.

Gotta close that shoulder and let the arm get out ahead in your throws.

Right now there is no separation as you open everything up. Hips/shoulder/arm/head all come open closely together at the hit. Remember to uncoil from the ground up.

 

[Brychanus]

Yeah you can see visible improvement in that heavy backswing.

Gotta close that shoulder and let the arm get out ahead in your throws.

Right now there is no separation as you open everything up. Hips/shoulder/arm/head all come open closely together at the hit. Remember to uncoil from the ground up.

Nice - the whole top line feels "heavier" again even just after one round of weighted drills.

I see the lag/separation problem. I think part of the problem is that I'm a little out of posture setting up the backswing in x-step, so when I land I'm still a little "over the top" and the leading hip isn't doing its best work swinging everything through with optimum lag. So the "ride the bull" part is still a little off. Possibly still coming in too "quaddy" off the rear side or something. Hopefully this gets better with weighted swings and cleaning up my setup/first move.

I'm going to settle into the weighted swing/tosses for a few days and see if that starts tightening this up. When I can get some vids of tosses I'll post 'em!

 

[drk_evns]

When you're really tossing heavy things, it might help you stop thinking about legs/quads as well. Things just click when your body realizes what it has to do to get that object moving on the correct path.

When I toss the hammer my legs don't feel like they're in any sort of athletic stance at all. Just walking, shifting, and moving out of the way. It's very calm and effortless.

 

[Brychanus]

When you're really tossing heavy things, it might help you stop thinking about legs/quads as well. Things just click when your body realizes what it has to do to get that object moving on the correct path.

When I toss the hammer my legs don't feel like they're in any sort of athletic stance at all. Just walking, shifting, and moving out of the way. It's very calm and effortless.

Once I got in the posture and let the weight take over esp in the diagonal stance I didn't really have to think about my legs this time shortly after I started moving. It did feel weird at first because it seemed my legs weren't doing "enough" (which is part of the point of course). So I'm hopeful repping it out makes some of the old posture stuff diminish on its own...

 

[Brychanus]

Spent the morning on new dynamic exercises for hammies and weighted throws.

The dumbbells came out a bit to the right/over the top at first until I really got good compression in the backswing and focused on throwing them straight down the base path at different height trajectories. Big difference. Arm already much more relaxed and legs seem to be playing along.

Then I went inside and did diagonal medicine ball tosses. At this point I can really feel the difference in the tilt, compression, legs, hips, and shift I'm getting with a dense 20 lb medicine ball versus my x step (standstill feels similar to weighted throws but can also improve) so I'll keep working on these. If they look ok I'll post a new shot in a few days and see if it's improving, perhaps also throwing a weight plate.

 

[drk_evns]

Yeah I can see you moving towards where you need to be.

With the dumbbell there was a little too much movement "east and west" (if north and south is target line). I want more weight shifting down the line as opposed to back and fourth. You can see your heels are coming off the ground like you want, but bring them closer together and facilitate the motion with the gas pedal movement like you were forced to do when you moved to the heavier medicine ball.

Your knee is straightening and bending and taking your "butt off the wall" when tossing the dumbbell.

 

[Brychanus]

Yeah I can see you moving towards where you need to be.

With the dumbbell there was a little too much movement "east and west" (if north and south is target line). I want more weight shifting down the line as opposed to back and fourth. You can see your heels are coming off the ground like you want, but bring them closer together and facilitate the motion with the gas pedal movement like you were forced to do when you moved to the heavier medicine ball.

Your knee is straightening and bending and taking your "butt off the wall" when tossing the dumbbell.

Nice, thanks man - glad I added the medicine ball. My body definitely got better grounding when I got that ball heaving after a few reps. For the dumbbell, can you clarify "You can see your heels are coming off the ground like you want, but bring them closer together"? I'm not sure which direction/foot position you're indicating, or if it's the action. E.g., I did see and feel that the gas pedal part was much crisper in the medicine ball tosses.

 

[Brychanus]

Yeah I can see you moving towards where you need to be.

With the dumbbell there was a little too much movement "east and west" (if north and south is target line). I want more weight shifting down the line as opposed to back and fourth. You can see your heels are coming off the ground like you want, but bring them closer together and facilitate the motion with the gas pedal movement like you were forced to do when you moved to the heavier medicine ball.

Your knee is straightening and bending and taking your "butt off the wall" when tossing the dumbbell.

NVM, I think I got it. Let's see. In the backswing, the dumbbell backswing is pulling me back slightly over the top/over my rear leg brace and a little too East. That's what's causing the plant knee to extend as it follows the weight back and bend again when I land. But then I'm a little too over the top landing because of that over the top backswing and extra East-West movement, leading to a little spinout in the plant foot and follow through a little too West. Also why my feet are not fully "gas pedaling" there compared to the medicine ball - they're spinning just a bit rather than fully shifting. That's likely related to or the same thing that's happening in my x-step and my body has been struggling around it.

When I did the medicine ball with a good heave, it would start to pull me out of balance faster, so instead my body cleaned it up quickly (fun fact - the brain's basal ganglia react faster to abrupt changes in acceleration!). It also probably helped the east-west part that I had two hands on the ball. For some reason my standstills feel more like the medicine ball than the dumbbell toss, but lacks a bit of the ground/leg action there.

If I get to the gym tomorrow AM I'm going to reverse it and do heavy medicine balls first, then one arm dumbell toss.

Same drill vid for ease of reference:



Feldy or Fish's backswing holding the medicine ball style comes to mind. I've been avoiding ****ing around with my off arm specifically to work on the bigger issues. Not sure but it might make sense to try that with x-step after doing a lot of medicine ball & 1 arm swings.

 

[drk_evns]

NVM, I think I got it. Let's see. In the backswing, the dumbbell backswing is pulling me back slightly over the top/over my rear leg brace and a little too East. That's what's causing the plant knee to extend as it follows the weight back and bend again when I land. But then I'm a little too over the top landing because of that over the top backswing and extra East-West movement, leading to a little spinout in the plant foot and follow through a little too West. Also why my feet are not fully "gas pedaling" there compared to the medicine ball - they're spinning just a bit rather than fully shifting. That's likely related to or the same thing that's happening in my x-step and my body has been struggling around it.

When I did the medicine ball with a good heave, it would start to pull me out of balance faster, so instead my body cleaned it up quickly (fun fact - the brain's basal ganglia react faster to abrupt changes in acceleration!). It also probably helped the east-west part that I had two hands on the ball. For some reason my standstills feel more like the medicine ball than the dumbbell toss, but lacks a bit of the ground/leg action there.

Yes, exactly.

 

[Brychanus]

One of the good ones at the end of the session:

 

[bryantlikes]

You've probably already seen this but watched this this morning and it had too many crossover's with your thread.