First form check!

[sidewinder22]

I don't think tall is what you want, ie spine extension.

1. Narrow stance. Heels maybe 3-6" apart, feet flared whatever is relaxed/neutral.

2. Knees straight, but not locked.

3. Relax spine forward, slight hip/spine flexion. Butt would counter back with pressure on wall without bending knees. Should feel hammys stretch. Shoulders/arms hang forward of hips and knees.

 

[Brychanus]

I don't think tall is what you want, ie spine extension.

1. Narrow stance. Heels maybe 3-6" apart, feet flared whatever is relaxed/neutral.

2. Knees straight, but not locked.

3. Relax spine forward, slight hip/spine flexion. Butt would counter back with pressure on wall without bending knees. Should feel hammys stretch. Shoulders/arms hang forward of hips and knees.

This stance reminded me more of setting up for straight legged deadlifts but with the spine relaxed like the trashcan hug. It shifted the load to the rear of my legs and I felt a hammy stretch.

Once I started to get the hang of the new stance I could immediately tell I needed to clean up the Inside Swing/Double Dragon load of the backswing, which was contributing to going over the top. So I worked on that a bit which seemed to start helping, but as always I'll follow your lead! Thanks man.

Here's me showing 3 views of the setup (0:00), dunno if the knees should be even straighter here. Then two throws after working from that setup for a bit (0:29).

 

[sidewinder22]

Need to stay inside posture.

 

[drk_evns]

I haven't been following this closely, but I can't help but feel like you're trying too hard to get into "positions" watching your video. Try to feel the motions as opposed to replicating the look of the correct positions. Relax your body a bit. You're squatting/straightening your spine/etc. and you look stiff in your movements because you're trying to control to many pieces as opposed to harnessing them.

I've been doing a lot of drills with 8lb dumbbells in my hands. Forces you to do a lot of things right. Just grab some and start swinging them freely. It takes motion to get them moving the way you want them to, not positions.

 

[Brychanus]

Need to stay inside posture.

Thanks, and wow. I took what you taught in the last post, then did Buttwipe on wall then came off wall with (1) toes inline then (2) added a little stagger. At first I found it difficult to keep from falling back onto my heels/maintain athletic posture with some plantar flexion so there was something deeply wrong. This loading feels totally different from the squatty posture - going to need to focus on this a lot in setup to override that habit. Hammies also need a good stretch to get comfortable. Might still be able to fuss & get a little better, please lmk if there's an obvious adjustment:

 

[Brychanus]

I haven't been following this closely, but I can't help but feel like you're trying too hard to get into "positions" watching your video. Try to feel the motions as opposed to replicating the look of the correct positions. Relax your body a bit. You're squatting/straightening your spine/etc. and you look stiff in your movements because you're trying to control to many pieces as opposed to harnessing them.

I've been doing a lot of drills with 8lb dumbbells in my hands. Forces you to do a lot of things right. Just grab some and start swinging them freely. It takes motion to get them moving the way you want them to, not positions.

Thanks for popping in man - this actually makes me want to add some context to help you help me. Believe it or not I feel pretty relaxed there, but I can't figure out where/how to hang weight on my legs. I've done many of the drills or walking around with weights from 1-50lbs depending on the action. For some reason anything in DG involving my legs has been incredibly challenging. It's probably because when I weightlift (now over 20 years), I used to spend a lot more time doing quad-centric exercises, so I think whenever I currently do weightlifting or drills, I'm not surprised if I'm automatically always moving into some version of very quad or squat-centric posture. I can also handle a fairly large amount of weight from squatty posture and through my upper body relative to my hammies (i.e., probably more asymmetry than expected based on my PT experience). So I think part of my struggle here is a big longtime movement bias and some strength asymmetry, at least :-(

 

[Brychanus]

Need to stay inside posture.

I haven't been following this closely, but I can't help but feel like you're trying too hard to get into "positions" watching your video. Try to feel the motions as opposed to replicating the look of the correct positions. Relax your body a bit. You're squatting/straightening your spine/etc. and you look stiff in your movements because you're trying to control to many pieces as opposed to harnessing them.

I've been doing a lot of drills with 8lb dumbbells in my hands. Forces you to do a lot of things right. Just grab some and start swinging them freely. It takes motion to get them moving the way you want them to, not positions.

... I think whenever I currently do weightlifting or drills, I'm not surprised if I'm automatically always moving into some version of very quad or squat-centric posture.

I think we're all correct here. Maybe let's put all of this together.

Almost as soon as I put this box (~5lbs of metal brackets) in my hand and settle in to swing either wide or narrow stance, I felt my body want to shift my weight toward my quads. It is super annoying. I could actually see my nose want to start creeping in front of my toes if I wasn't focused on it - it's happening a bit in this video. So I just kind of tried to relax the posture back a bit more inside/hammy load and keep swinging it.

Next time I throw I'm going to try to get my hammies as loose as possible, then dingle arm with my Indian club in the setup relaxing into the inside posture narrow stance. Then I'll put the club down and immediately switch to the disc and throw.

 

[drk_evns]

Stop moving the box with your arm and let it swing. You're all arm there. Stiff movement everywhere.

Don't worry about your "disc" angle with your arm and swing it like a pendulum. Also, get something heavier and it'll come easier. Your body still thinks it can manipulate that weight with your upper body muscles/arms. I find big movements help me identify what's happening a lot more easily than tiny ones.

You have to wait for the weight to tell you when the swing should happen and then add to it. Your arm should not be in charge of the movement here.

 

[Brychanus]

Stop moving the box with your arm and let it swing. You're all arm there. Stiff movement everywhere.

Don't worry about your "disc" angle with your arm and swing it like a pendulum. Also, get something heavier and it'll come easier. Your body still thinks it can manipulate that weight with your upper body muscles/arms. I find big movements help me identify what's happening a lot more easily than tiny ones.

You have to wait for the weight to tell you when the swing should happen and then add to it. Your arm should not be in charge of the movement here.

I definitely feel my weight shifting leading the swing and I don't feel stiff there, so I'm hopefully about to learn something. I'm going to upgrade to 20+ lbs then repost when I get home. I'm afraid whatever you're seeing (I think I see it too, but cannot feel my way out) might take even considerably more weight, let's find out.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, your elbow remains bent at the top of the backswing, so it's not pulled taut or pulling on you or your center. Note how my backswing pulls my right leg straight leaving the ground heel first.

 

[Brychanus]

Yeah, your elbow remains bent at the top of the backswing, so it's not pulled taut or pulling on you or your center. Note how my backswing pulls my right leg straight leaving the ground heel first.

I see it specifically now, thank you. BTW I'm aware this is related to the problem I had way back when I couldn't do perpetual drill in narrow stance before. Part of it was my wrong ride the bull axis. Looks like this is the other part.

Let's see if doing it in a more wide open space like the basement with more weight in this narrow stance letting the swing/weight pull me taut will help.

 

[drk_evns]

I definitely feel my weight shifting leading the swing and I don't feel stiff there, so I'm hopefully about to learn something. I'm going to upgrade to 20+ lbs then repost when I get home. I'm afraid whatever you're seeing (I think I see it too, but cannot feel my way out) might take even considerably more weight, let's find out.

I find 8-10lbs to be about right. I can swing it hard enough that I have a follow through but not too heavy that it rips my arm off, flies out of my hand, or inhibits a full swing.

You are shifting your weight, but your arm is pulling out ahead of it. Before you've had a chance to "settle" in the backswing and then take advantage of the momentum coming back the other way.

Yeah, your elbow remains bent at the top of the backswing, so it's not pulled taut or pulling on you or your center. Note how my backswing pulls my right leg straight leaving the ground heel first.

^^^ imagine not extending your elbow in the door frame. You'd be pulling your weight towards the door with your arm as opposed to sitting into your weight and ripping it off the frame with an extended arm.

 

[Brychanus]

I find 8-10lbs to be about right. I can swing it hard enough that I have a follow through but not too heavy that it rips my arm off, flies out of my hand, or inhibits a full swing.

You are shifting your weight, but your arm is pulling out ahead of it. Before you've had a chance to "settle" in the backswing and then take advantage of the momentum coming back the other way.



^^^ imagine not extending your elbow in the door frame. You'd be pulling your weight towards the door with your arm as opposed to sitting into your weight and ripping it off the frame with an extended arm.

This is good, I (conceptually) get what you're both trying to get me to do. I have never been so excited to go home to my basement, which is saying something at this point lol

 

[drk_evns]

I see it specifically now, thank you. BTW I'm aware this is related to the problem I had way back when I couldn't do perpetual drill in narrow stance before. Part of it was my wrong ride the bull axis. Looks like this is the other part.

Let's see if doing it in a more wide open space like the basement with more weight in this narrow stance letting the swing/weight pull me taut will help.

I think you'll notice a lot more shoulder turn as well.

 

[drk_evns]

This is good, I (conceptually) get what you're both trying to get me to do. I have never been so excited to go home to my basement, which is saying something at this point lol

the highs and lows of technique.

enjoy and good luck!

 

[sidewinder22]

Thanks for popping in man - this actually makes me want to add some context to help you help me. Believe it or not I feel pretty relaxed there, but I can't figure out where/how to hang weight on my legs. I've done many of the drills or walking around with weights from 1-50lbs depending on the action. For some reason anything in DG involving my legs has been incredibly challenging. It's probably because when I weightlift (now over 20 years), I used to spend a lot more time doing quad-centric exercises, so I think whenever I currently do weightlifting or drills, I'm not surprised if I'm automatically always moving into some version of very quad or squat-centric posture. I can also handle a fairly large amount of weight from squatty posture and through my upper body relative to my hammies (i.e., probably more asymmetry than expected based on my PT experience). So I think part of my struggle here is a big longtime movement bias and some strength asymmetry, at least :-(

I used to lift pretty heavily 20 years ago, but it was mostly free weights or barbells and machines(bad). I still do some pushups and squats, pull ups, bands occasionally nowadays. But I never got into Olympic style lifts or CrossFit crap thankfully. I think all the disc golfers that I have worked with that have been into the latter style of lifting have had a really hard time with posture. As much as I loathe the GOATA coaches(used car salesman mentality), I do think they are mostly correct with their observations about athletes that do Olympic style lifts and I have actually come to like some of their terminology, however I'm sold on their method or "math" or "recoding" as it doesn't account for anatomical differences, and none of the GOATs actually trained using GOATA method.

I do however really like David Weck and Weck Method which has also made many of the same observations(before GOATA) and he also trained Tyson Gay and Justin James. I haven't specifically done it, but it makes more sense to me and seems to be a much better fit to disc golf and movement in general. You may notice a lot of his principles in what I teach.

 

[Brychanus]

I used to lift pretty heavily 20 years ago, but it was mostly free weights or barbells and machines(bad). I still do some pushups and squats, pull ups, bands occasionally nowadays. But I never got into Olympic style lifts or CrossFit crap thankfully. I think all the disc golfers that I have worked with that have been into the latter style of lifting have had a really hard time with posture. As much as I loathe the GOATA coaches(used car salesman mentality), I do think they are mostly correct with their observations about athletes that do Olympic style lifts and I have actually come to like some of their terminology, however I'm sold on their method or "math" or "recoding" as it doesn't account for anatomical differences, and none of the GOATs actually trained using GOATA method.

I do however really like David Weck and Weck Method which has also made many of the same observations(before GOATA) and he also trained Tyson Gay and Justin James. I haven't specifically done it, but it makes more sense to me and seems to be a much better fit to disc golf and movement in general. You may notice a lot of his principles in what I teach.

Nice, thank you for sharing all this

I've gradually been phasing out most of the Olympic style lifts anyway other than for some maintenance and do lighter lifts focused on mobility and flexibility. More bands and body weight. If I've learned anything this week its that my old lifting routine is not great for DG posture cues/muscle chains.

I've been clear to remove the last machine moves by the PT too. But I think I need to look into more of this in general and keep tailoring the gym routine. Always appreciate anything else that may come to mind here I'm willing to take the plunge on anything that helps.

Always drillin':
I did some weighted swings (10lb) in narrow staggered posture forward and back. Going to take work to keep getting inside posture. I had some success and I'm way more stable than the last time I did the narrow perpetual drill, but not sure how this initially looks.

I included two throws at the end playing with my setup because I like to see if there is any immediate transfer and in case weird stuff emerges.

 

[drk_evns]

You're still cheating it with your arm I think. Keep your shoulder closed and let it swing freely underneath it.

The weight should pull your arm taut and you should feel it almost extending your rotation without you "turning" back.

 

[drk_evns]

Your shoulders open up and your release point looks off to the right. Go outside and see what it takes to actually throw the dumbbell straight. Should get that shoulder closed.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yeah, your swing is on the wrong diagonal path / open, instead of the closed \ diagonal swing path/battering ram. A heavy swing will swing/pull back behind you more, don't try to manipulate a heavy swing into a "wide reachback". Let it go.