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[Innova] For the love of the Bird! ..Teebird that is!

what? having both is useful. its like having a gator and a roc.

Both might be useful, but according to this guy, many (not all but many) golfers prefer one very much over the other. To each his own, I guess. Me, I carry neither, I carry the TL and Thunderbird, so I've no skin in that game until my forehand gets worthy of carrying a Firebird or Teebird....
 
I carry 2 of each. Beat star tb for straight, fresh champ tb for straight to reliable fade, beat small dome 167 champ Fb for skips and headwinds, fresher flat star max weight for pure beef, flex shots, etc.
 
I've been seeing a recent run of opaque cfr champ eagles over the past couple months. They're slightly gummy and super stable. My favorite kind of champ plastic - I don't care for jolly launcher at all. I've been looking for teebirds in the same plastic, but haven't run across any. Anyone else seen anything other than JL TBs out there?
 
Both might be useful, but according to this guy, many (not all but many) golfers prefer one very much over the other. To each his own, I guess. Me, I carry neither, I carry the TL and Thunderbird, so I've no skin in that game until my forehand gets worthy of carrying a Firebird or Teebird....

The more classical argument is you're either a Teebird or an Eagle kind of guy. Because they can overlap when you use different plastics.

But if anything teebird throwers probably also have a firebird the majority of the time because they complement each other
 
Well I did some preliminary beating of my super beefcake 12x against various surfaces and smoothed it out after (it's called working on forehand snap...and then buffing out imperfections...totally legal...) and it now has some carry to its HSS rather than holding a HSS +0 like a Firebird. I am about eleven times happier with how it flies in the couple throws I got so far...it's just good to know that the plastic will change characteristics a bit without waiting a decade.
 
If anything teebird throwers probably also have a firebird the majority of the time because they complement each other

Having both is useful. its like having a gator and a roc.


^ THIS! Now some folks are trying to get me into throwing Thurderbirds. Can those co-exist with a Teebird/Firebird combination? My distance driver is a Destroyer and it looks like the Thunderbird fits somewhere in between all those molds. Any feedback for you Innova gurus out here?
 
^ THIS! Now some folks are trying to get me into throwing Thurderbirds. Can those co-exist with a Teebird/Firebird combination? My distance driver is a Destroyer and it looks like the Thunderbird fits somewhere in between all those molds. Any feedback for you Innova gurus out here?

I'd try out both a Thunderbird and a Discmania PD. Those are the in between discs from a fairway to a distance driver.

McBeth bags both. In his various in the bag videos he often refers to PD's and thunderbirds as fairway drivers (because they can do fairway driver-like things by just powering down).

in a weird coincidence the PD actually has a firebird bottom, but a more understable (anhyzer) top so you get very "longer beefy teebird" like shots. In reality the PD has an optical illusion type fade/dump which looks abrupt but actually goes forward (often your shots end up being a further than you expect).

the Thunderbird has also been described as a "long teebird" but its less overstable compared to the PD.
 
As I see it, there are two primary functions for "tweener" discs, which is what you seem to be asking about, and which many people use discs like the TH for.

The first is as a gap filler. The farther you throw, the more important gap filling becomes. You if you only throw 350, and there is only 20 feet between your average TB shot and your average D shot, then gap filling is less important than it is for someone who has a 50 foot or more gap between those two discs. Even then, some people prefer to power up or power down on discs they already know and have than try to bring in a tweener. That's highly individual, as well as shot situational. Only you know if you want or need a tweener disc for the gap filling function.

The second function, which I don't see discussed often, is the "erring on the side of caution" function. That is, sometimes you have a TB shot, but due to circumstances (OB or other hazards for example), you may want to err on the side of a faster and/or slightly longer shot. That's a situation where even if you don't throw the TH much farther, it makes sense to bag and throw one, because on average it will be just that little bit farther. And in a game where one or two throws frequently separate you from the next place, we need every strategic advantage we can get. Likewise, you can use the TH for shots where you want to err on the side of slightly shorter and slower instead of throwing the D.

For either of those function, the TH is a good choice of a tweener between the TB and D.
 
As I see it, there are two primary functions for "tweener" discs, which is what you seem to be asking about, and which many people use discs like the TH for.

The first is as a gap filler. The farther you throw, the more important gap filling becomes. You if you only throw 350, and there is only 20 feet between your average TB shot and your average D shot, then gap filling is less important than it is for someone who has a 50 foot or more gap between those two discs. Even then, some people prefer to power up or power down on discs they already know and have than try to bring in a tweener. That's highly individual, as well as shot situational. Only you know if you want or need a tweener disc for the gap filling function.

The second function, which I don't see discussed often, is the "erring on the side of caution" function. That is, sometimes you have a TB shot, but due to circumstances (OB or other hazards for example), you may want to err on the side of a faster and/or slightly longer shot. That's a situation where even if you don't throw the TH much farther, it makes sense to bag and throw one, because on average it will be just that little bit farther. And in a game where one or two throws frequently separate you from the next place, we need every strategic advantage we can get. Likewise, you can use the TH for shots where you want to err on the side of slightly shorter and slower instead of throwing the D.

For either of those function, the TH is a good choice of a tweener between the TB and D.

This is a good description of the pros/cons of tweeners. Personally I eliminated my tweeners a while ago because there just wasn't that big a gap between my Teebirds and distance drivers. I can throw distance drivers about 430 max in a field, but on the course it's usually more like 380-390. Since I can push Teebirds out to 360-375, that doesn't leave a huge gap.

It is important to be comfortable with your throw too as you say, so if I'm looking at a 375 foot shot, I might pick up a Scorpius even though I could probably get there with a Teebird just because I don't have to put as much into the throw. However, when I tested out Thunderbirds, they just didn't go much farther than Teebirds for me with the same amount of effort. Thus, I don't think I would necessarily feel more comfortable throwing the Thunderbird on that shot, which is another reason I don't bag them. The Thunderbirds did go a little straighter than fresh Teebirds (less stable out of the box), but my seasoned Teebirds flew very similar lines and about the same distance as a new Thunderbird. I'd guess I could get a seasoned PD to go farther than a Thunderbird or Teebird, maybe even as far as my Scorpiuses, but I've never had one long enough to season it. There's my (very rambling) thoughts on the subject.
 
I think you are missing a third reason people bag these discs. It is the reason I do it, and many of my friends are in the same camp: Increased reliability in exchange for a minimal drop in max distance.

I spent years spraying Glow Terns and Destroyers around the course. I'll still take a couple Destroyers or Wraiths with me on longer courses. But I can push OLFs and PDs out to within 20-30 feet, on average, of where my max D drivers will go, with an added measure of control and predictability. Plus the FB rim (which those two share with the FB) fits my hand better. There aren't many holes out there where the Destroyer's added distance gives me a birdie look I wouldn't otherwise have. I can actually only think of two holes out of all my usual courses where 25' makes that difference. But I can think of MANY tight gaps I hit 30% more when I reign it in an throw the PD or OLF instead. When I made that decision to back off I intended for it to be temporary. Then I saw my scores dropping. Hitting a gap or a particular landing spot does a lot more for your game than 30 extra feet off the tee.

These speed 9-10 "tweeners" allow me to put full power into controllable and/or shaped shots out to 375ish. And it le's me ease back on TBs (and Eagles and QJLSs) as a surgical tool.

When was the last time 25' extra off the tee earned you a stroke? And when was the last time tickling a tree cost you one?

As I see it, there are two primary functions for "tweener" discs, which is what you seem to be asking about, and which many people use discs like the TH for.

The first is as a gap filler. The farther you throw, the more important gap filling becomes. You if you only throw 350, and there is only 20 feet between your average TB shot and your average D shot, then gap filling is less important than it is for someone who has a 50 foot or more gap between those two discs. Even then, some people prefer to power up or power down on discs they already know and have than try to bring in a tweener. That's highly individual, as well as shot situational. Only you know if you want or need a tweener disc for the gap filling function.

The second function, which I don't see discussed often, is the "erring on the side of caution" function. That is, sometimes you have a TB shot, but due to circumstances (OB or other hazards for example), you may want to err on the side of a faster and/or slightly longer shot. That's a situation where even if you don't throw the TH much farther, it makes sense to bag and throw one, because on average it will be just that little bit farther. And in a game where one or two throws frequently separate you from the next place, we need every strategic advantage we can get. Likewise, you can use the TH for shots where you want to err on the side of slightly shorter and slower instead of throwing the D.

For either of those function, the TH is a good choice of a tweener between the TB and D.
 
I agree with IronJack's post and thoughts.

Also going to a Thunderbird/PD lets you exchange more stability + more speed for a similar distance or slightly more. That way if you could get your Teebird to an area but don't quite trust yourself (you may torque it trying to kill it), then going to the ThB or PD would allow you to put in the same power but have the disc less likely to get squirrelly. If you have a really mellow Teebird that just glides straight you may not see much distance difference, just a different stability at that distance. If you have a very beefy Teebird then you'll see a similar flight but with extra distance...in this case I see more value in adding in the tweener disc. If you're hitting 400+ with drivers then it starts to make more sense to fill in this gap that can happen between a mellow fairway driver shot and your distance drivers.
 
I think you are missing a third reason people bag these discs. It is the reason I do it, and many of my friends are in the same camp: Increased reliability in exchange for a minimal drop in max distance.

I spent years spraying Glow Terns and Destroyers around the course. I'll still take a couple Destroyers or Wraiths with me on longer courses. But I can push OLFs and PDs out to within 20-30 feet, on average, of where my max D drivers will go, with an added measure of control and predictability. Plus the FB rim (which those two share with the FB) fits my hand better. There aren't many holes out there where the Destroyer's added distance gives me a birdie look I wouldn't otherwise have. I can actually only think of two holes out of all my usual courses where 25' makes that difference. But I can think of MANY tight gaps I hit 30% more when I reign it in an throw the PD or OLF instead. When I made that decision to back off I intended for it to be temporary. Then I saw my scores dropping. Hitting a gap or a particular landing spot does a lot more for your game than 30 extra feet off the tee.

These speed 9-10 "tweeners" allow me to put full power into controllable and/or shaped shots out to 375ish. And it le's me ease back on TBs (and Eagles and QJLSs) as a surgical tool.

When was the last time 25' extra off the tee earned you a stroke? And when was the last time tickling a tree cost you one?

I don't disagree with you, but I think you're point goes more to the pure awesomesauce of the PD (and OLF) than an inherent trait of tweener discs. Not all tweeners are the magic combo of control, distance, range-ability, and power up/down-ability of the PD.

I actually do essentially the opposite of what I describe above, that is, the core of my driver game are so-called tweeners - 5 PDs. 2 PPD and 2 SPD, one seasoned, one fresh of each, and an OS CPD. From there I have a couple D that I can step up to, and E, L and TB I can step down to, but I default PD, and I too often go PD on max distance shots if placement is an issue.

I, however, don't really find the fairway drivers to be that much more controllable than the PD, at least not in terms of hitting gaps. I tend to only use them when I think their speed and range are better suited to the shot and give me a larger margin of error than a powered down PD gives me.

It also depends on how you define "tweener." It seems you're defining it as a speed 9-10 disc, and the conventional wisdom would agree with that definition, but since I use the PD as my core driver disc, the speed 6-7 and 12-13 discs, functionally, are my tweener discs - if that makes sense.

Finally, I would agree that if everyone who threw ~350 max used speed 9-10 as their fastest disc, the average score would probably improve; largely through the significant increase in control with only marginal loss in distance.
 
30 feet is t the difference between a pd and destroyer for everyone I would guess
 
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The high PLH newer JL champ is great. It was surprisingly (too) OS for my needs initially, but after getting the wing scraped up and some dings on the bottom rim along with some other impacts, it's a very good beefy Teebird. If released with a slight hyzer it will still fly straight forward, but have a sweeping fade. On a real hyzer throw it holds it very predictably. And on a flat throw it waits until the end to have a medium fade as it should. Plus since it acts like this after wear, it should hold this flight for a long time in its life. Although it's still not a super long thrower, but it's very predictable.

I'm very impressed with it in wind though, it couldn't care less about a pretty stiff headwind or left to right, that pushed my star Teebird into walking 20-30' right of aim, where it just held its line like normal and faded. It may lose more distance in wind than a faster disc like a PD, but I feel like it's more HSS than my worn in SPD, although not as long. It's definitely a good one for the stable/OS slot, and it can be beaten in to get to be how you want it if you don't want the mini Firebird it starts as.
 
Hit my first tournament ace ever last sunday. Nice big hyzer with a star teebird. Man I love this disc :D
Star Teebird love! I can't believe I never threw a Teebird before a few years ago. Once I got it I knew that it would be a staple of my bag. Teebird for life!
 
Star Teebird love! I can't believe I never threw a Teebird before a few years ago. Once I got it I knew that it would be a staple of my bag. Teebird for life!

Think I have about 5 Teebirds so far. One DX, two Champ, one G*, and I just got an Echo*.. holy cow. Jackpot. Awesome grip. Not floppy like G* and the skip on it is like nothing I've seen. I still have to try a regular Star some time. :hfive:
 
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