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Go with the FLOW
- Thread starter Spike1
- Start date
dgdave
* Ace Member *
FHthrower said:
Did you fade hard?
Someone needs to lighten up with the cryptic speak.
I will say this about Latitiude 64: they make beautiful discs...that don't particularly fly well, compared to Discraft and Innova, I-M-O. Or, at the very least, they don't perform as advertised. That's okay, Gateway and Quest are a total crapshoot. I own a lot of Discraft and Innova, and I don't think one of my Discraft has ever disappointed when it comes to flying as claimed, even from plastic to plastic, basically dead on every time, and right on down to their putters. Innova not quite so much. I've had a few Innova spares that were huge deviations from identical discs purchased earlier.
Flow Shmow...those claiming that it goes farther than a nuke simply means THEY can throw it farther than a Nuke. My 3 farthest discs, by far, are Nuke, Katana, Boss...just as it should be considering their speed and max D potential. I can throw my Force, Destroyers, Wraith, Crush, Surge, Rogue, and Helios nearly as far, but NOT as far...the Helios actually gets right there with the Nuke and Katana a lot of the time. That is one heck of a sleeper disc...fast, lots of glide, with a fast forward finish if thrown right..fading forward, making up distance. When I want fade I throw hyzers.
Still working with the River, have not given up on L64. Someone tell them to quit cranking out new discs every couple months until they get it down better.
I will say this about Latitiude 64: they make beautiful discs...that don't particularly fly well, compared to Discraft and Innova, I-M-O. Or, at the very least, they don't perform as advertised. That's okay, Gateway and Quest are a total crapshoot. I own a lot of Discraft and Innova, and I don't think one of my Discraft has ever disappointed when it comes to flying as claimed, even from plastic to plastic, basically dead on every time, and right on down to their putters. Innova not quite so much. I've had a few Innova spares that were huge deviations from identical discs purchased earlier.
Flow Shmow...those claiming that it goes farther than a nuke simply means THEY can throw it farther than a Nuke. My 3 farthest discs, by far, are Nuke, Katana, Boss...just as it should be considering their speed and max D potential. I can throw my Force, Destroyers, Wraith, Crush, Surge, Rogue, and Helios nearly as far, but NOT as far...the Helios actually gets right there with the Nuke and Katana a lot of the time. That is one heck of a sleeper disc...fast, lots of glide, with a fast forward finish if thrown right..fading forward, making up distance. When I want fade I throw hyzers.
Still working with the River, have not given up on L64. Someone tell them to quit cranking out new discs every couple months until they get it down better.
I would just say that their rating is scale is not exactly equivalent to innova's. I know that the River and Flow have more fade than a disc rated at "1" probably would from innova, but I can live with that.
My issue with their discs is mostly in consistency. If people are claiming that Flowse fly anything like S PD's, then they must have drastically different Flows from those that I have thrown. Drastically.
PD's, on the other hand, have been mostly consistent for me. Almost all of them are very HSS with a good forward fade. Just like a fast teebird. They have all beat in the same. Getting straighter and straighter in the finish, until they eventually lose a bit of HSS. My latitude discs, other than fuses, have been noticeably different, even when brand new.
I agree with that much. But I'd say that they are definitely improving, and I admire that they are aggressively trying to fill their line up. They are actually getting my business by putting out stuff that has a reasonable chance of filling slots in my bag. Innova wont do anything but speed 13 anymore, and they haven't gotten a penny of mine in months. So latitude is doing something right. I haven't liked a new disc as much as I liked the Fuse almost since I started. I'm not really worried about how they "rate" their discs. Its all rather subjective.
Should I ditch the Fuse because it says "Stable midrange driver" on it? I really think it should say "Slightly understable midrange driver." I'm not going to freak out because it doesn't "fly as advertised." I let my field work do the talking.
My issue with their discs is mostly in consistency. If people are claiming that Flowse fly anything like S PD's, then they must have drastically different Flows from those that I have thrown. Drastically.
PD's, on the other hand, have been mostly consistent for me. Almost all of them are very HSS with a good forward fade. Just like a fast teebird. They have all beat in the same. Getting straighter and straighter in the finish, until they eventually lose a bit of HSS. My latitude discs, other than fuses, have been noticeably different, even when brand new.
I agree with that much. But I'd say that they are definitely improving, and I admire that they are aggressively trying to fill their line up. They are actually getting my business by putting out stuff that has a reasonable chance of filling slots in my bag. Innova wont do anything but speed 13 anymore, and they haven't gotten a penny of mine in months. So latitude is doing something right. I haven't liked a new disc as much as I liked the Fuse almost since I started. I'm not really worried about how they "rate" their discs. Its all rather subjective.
Should I ditch the Fuse because it says "Stable midrange driver" on it? I really think it should say "Slightly understable midrange driver." I'm not going to freak out because it doesn't "fly as advertised." I let my field work do the talking.
FHthrower said:
Every company makes up their numbers. There is no science or measuring of any sort. Throwing style largely influences how a disc behaves. If I get things right I can make several of my discs fly totally straight without turnover or fade. If I gave these discs to a less experienced friend, they would never get that flight out of them. It's not the discs.
Ryan C said:
I realize that you were replying to someone else on a different subject...However, I'm the one that compared the Flow and PD. My Opto Flows remind me a lot of my broken in red S-PDs. I throw them the same way, they fly the same. The PD is more forgiving due to it's slower speed, but besides that they are VERY similar. Thrown really low and flat and they fly with a little turn and almost no fade. Given a bit more height and some hyzer attitude and you get a long smooth hyzer.
PDs are not any more consistent than most Lat64 discs. Those that have thrown many different PDs over time know this. I've had new S-PDs that ranged from 0 to -2 in HSS, and P-PDs that ranged from -.5 to -3 in HSS. Because it is generally a rather overstable disc, it comes out a little more consistent than an disc that is supposed to be straight or slightly understable simply due to the LSS.
ForeverBlue232
Birdie Member
My form isn't anywhere near as good as Discspeed's, but when I threw both my Opto Flow and my S-PD's I did see alot of similarity in how they flew for me. I also had throws where the Flow went not like my S-PD's at all, but I think those were when I accidentally got anny on my Flow throws. I can see how someone can think they have somewhat similar flight paths. But I think it's like Mike says when he says its how its being thrown it more likely than not. And also there is disc variation too with Lat64. But I can't knock Lat too much for some of the disc inconsistencies, because if it wasn't for the PD, my bag would be mostly Lat (throwing in Strikers, Flows, and maybe Riots to replace my different PD's).
FHthrower said:
Just to share my frame of reference, currently I'm sponsored by the Clearwater Disc Golf Store to test discs. I take anything I want off the shelves, throw it as much as I want, and then do a writeup on their Facebook page or do a smaller write up here. Before this opportunity, I spent the greater part of the last 10 years buying way too many discs to test and working for other disc golf stores. Because of my neuroses and the opportunities I've had, I've thrown dozens of examples of most discs on the market.
From this wealth of experience, I can assure you, that Discraft is NO different than Innova or Lat64 in terms of molding up discs consistently. If you've experienced Discraft being better than the others then you have simply taken too small of sample to draw an accurate conclusion to make generalizations from.
The second part of you above statement about "flying as claimed" deals with a concept that is no more than fantasy. Advertising is about selling and making money. All disc companies make claims about their discs that if taken at face value are totally false. For example, disc companies claim certain discs (Buzzz) fly straight, when in fact, a straight throw is actually a skill. Those who possess really good "straight throwing" skills can make 75% of the discs on the market fly really straight. So in essence, the DG manufacturer advertise "skills", yet only sell plastic. To make the plastic fly as advertised takes skill that only a small fraction of their consumers possess. So you are spending way too much time concerning yourself with advertising vs. how discs fly for you.
Isn't this all that it means when anyone says any disc goes farther for them? If a disc goes farther for a particular style, who's to say who's right and who's wrong?FHthrower said:
What's this obsession with marketing and "the way things should be"? If you throw those discs the furthest it means:FHthrower said:
A) you can throw 500'...Congrats, most can't
B) you've bought into the "latest and greatest" DG marketing hook, line, and sinker...Keep crunching those flight numbers!
FHthrower said:
You should post some on the Helios thread, I haven't heard much discussion on the disc, especially lately. Also, I see you can get the Helios to fade forward "if thrown right". So you have at least some recognition that this is a skill that is dependent on your ability and your experience with the disc rather than something the disc just does on it's own. You can read my reviews of the Flow above, but for me it is very easy to throw right to get a forward fading finish.
FHthrower said:
The coolest thing about this site (DGR) is that many manufacturers lurk and post here. They seem to take our opinions into consideration and in general people here are very respectful towards them. Most people here support the manufacturers because we all love discs, and it seems like the newer manufacturers get more support. I think this is because many believe that with capitalism more manufacturers not only equals more choices for us, but it also influences the industry leaders to improve as well.
I've been on this site long enough to identify with it, and to an extent I feel a bit responsible for what is here content-wise. I feel a little embarrassed thinking that the Lat64 guys will probably read many of your posts because they just don't ring with respect. These are real people that really do read this stuff and react to it. They have worked incredibly hard against all odds to produce ANY discs. Even you admit that some (plastic) of what they do is as good or better than what's out there. Try and be supportive and constructive in your criticism and you will get less conflict here (unless conflict is what you are looking for--if so please look elsewhere). If respectful (respect adds validity) Lat64 will probably read and consider your concerns. Point out a true hole in their lineup and you may even be able to influence disc development.
ForeverBlue232
Birdie Member
If you want to talk about farthest flying discs.... Then my answer is the River. The longest measured throw I've ever had was with a River that I threw just right and got an amazing flight that I'm still trying to duplicate again. For which discs go the farthest, the answer is whichever disc each one of us can manipulate to the point that it gives each of us the most D. I've gotten Nukes out almost as far as that River throw, but for me I have a hard time getting a consistent throw with the Nuke because it's too much disc for me and how I throw. For me the most consistently longest disc is the PD, which is why it dominates my bag in it's different forms. But that is because its a disc that I can throw to get that D. Who cares which disc anyone else says is the coolest, longest, whatever? Just throw whatever you think works for you. If a certain disc just isn't for you, it isn't for you. I'd hardly expect all of us to agree completely about any disc. Most of us think the Groove sucks big time, but some on here love them. Go figure. It's all good, and there's no reason for any of us to get too worked up about it.
booter
* Ace Member *
JR did you log into discspeeds account just to post? Hahaha jk mike. Very well said sir. 
A wall of text just crit my face.
aaaaand since we're on a new page I'll copy Discs speech:
And finally I'll add that I completely agree with Discspeed on this commentary. One of the things I look for when I throw discs is how easy it is for ME to throw the lines I want with a mold. I love the Pure and I can throw it on a lot of lines, I would suspect many other people can too, but I'm sure there are some people out there that for what ever reason it just doesn't click with. For me, throwing the Pure on a straight line is easy, throwing the River down a tunnel and having it stay in the fairway is a little trickier but I still feel more confident doing it with a River than I do a leopard. Throwing a Flow VERY straight for a very long distance is also not a problem. The trouble is when someone gets jaded because they did buy one of those manufacturing freaks, and I've seen my share of them. Much like Discspeed I own WAY too many discs from all the companies (those who know me can attest to this) and for every manufacturer I can hand you at least 3 different versions of one disc.
There's always a growth period too, where you start to realize what you can do with a certain mold. For me, it was the Roc. I hated them at first, I was Buzzz all the way. Everyone kept saying how awesome they were though, so I kept throwing a couple of them over time trying to see what everyone was talking about. Now I can't imagine not having a Roc at arms length, I will intentionally gimp myself from time to time when I want to take an all latitude bag or all discraft, etc... But Roc's are awesome.
aaaaand since we're on a new page I'll copy Discs speech:
discspeed said:
And finally I'll add that I completely agree with Discspeed on this commentary. One of the things I look for when I throw discs is how easy it is for ME to throw the lines I want with a mold. I love the Pure and I can throw it on a lot of lines, I would suspect many other people can too, but I'm sure there are some people out there that for what ever reason it just doesn't click with. For me, throwing the Pure on a straight line is easy, throwing the River down a tunnel and having it stay in the fairway is a little trickier but I still feel more confident doing it with a River than I do a leopard. Throwing a Flow VERY straight for a very long distance is also not a problem. The trouble is when someone gets jaded because they did buy one of those manufacturing freaks, and I've seen my share of them. Much like Discspeed I own WAY too many discs from all the companies (those who know me can attest to this) and for every manufacturer I can hand you at least 3 different versions of one disc.
There's always a growth period too, where you start to realize what you can do with a certain mold. For me, it was the Roc. I hated them at first, I was Buzzz all the way. Everyone kept saying how awesome they were though, so I kept throwing a couple of them over time trying to see what everyone was talking about. Now I can't imagine not having a Roc at arms length, I will intentionally gimp myself from time to time when I want to take an all latitude bag or all discraft, etc... But Roc's are awesome.
That makes you sound like a noob who can't figure out how to work a disc.FHthrower said:
HA! All they've got to do is put an arrow and an arbitrary number on the disc and you're happy.FHthrower said:
Because I play at high altitude, EVERY disc's flight ratings are off, and not in a consistent way. I don't even pay attention to flight ratings any more. I just come here, see how it's flying for others, and because of a few dedicated disc reviewers here, I can tell how it's going to fly for me. FHthrower, people like you make it a chore for them to post here, so show some respect and quit picking fights on every thread you join.
VictorB
* Ace Member *
ITT: good posters getting trolled again
Why is his statement idiotic? Hes pretty much agreeing with you, hes just not being a dick about it.
He is acknowledging that diff companies flight ratings arent always accurate, so he asks people who have thrown them, and who he trusts their opinions before he buys it instead of consulting a chart that has no meaning to him. Im not seeing how that is silly. Isnt that what forums like this are for? I use this forum for that all the time, there are a dozen or so posters who i can identify with and trust what they have to say about a certain product, knowing the information will be largely objective and unbiased i can then use that as a basis for whether i think i would like to try it.
What im having trouble with is how you go on and on about Innova and Discraft's ratings, when they are, A. very different from each other when compared to one another, B. individual companies who set their own values on flight numbers. So that fact you compare Innova to Discraft and say they are the best at describing flight ratings, all that means is thats what you're used to using as a reference for flights, not that it is necessarily correct. Im sure if Discraft used a 4 or 5 number system to describe their discs you would find some things you dont agree with, likewise if innova simplified it with an arrow and 1 number. You should try and start thinking of Lat as its own system and adapt your thinking towards that (or use joes flight chart) So instead of having Innova, Discraft and everything else is wildy ignorant, let latitudes flight numbers be their own and stop using innovas to compare to lats. Because they are obviously different from each other even tho they basically use the same method to try and describe their product its still a different company.
He is acknowledging that diff companies flight ratings arent always accurate, so he asks people who have thrown them, and who he trusts their opinions before he buys it instead of consulting a chart that has no meaning to him. Im not seeing how that is silly. Isnt that what forums like this are for? I use this forum for that all the time, there are a dozen or so posters who i can identify with and trust what they have to say about a certain product, knowing the information will be largely objective and unbiased i can then use that as a basis for whether i think i would like to try it.
What im having trouble with is how you go on and on about Innova and Discraft's ratings, when they are, A. very different from each other when compared to one another, B. individual companies who set their own values on flight numbers. So that fact you compare Innova to Discraft and say they are the best at describing flight ratings, all that means is thats what you're used to using as a reference for flights, not that it is necessarily correct. Im sure if Discraft used a 4 or 5 number system to describe their discs you would find some things you dont agree with, likewise if innova simplified it with an arrow and 1 number. You should try and start thinking of Lat as its own system and adapt your thinking towards that (or use joes flight chart) So instead of having Innova, Discraft and everything else is wildy ignorant, let latitudes flight numbers be their own and stop using innovas to compare to lats. Because they are obviously different from each other even tho they basically use the same method to try and describe their product its still a different company.
booter
* Ace Member *
fhthrower, ease up. ban hammer is lookin fer nails
So what method do you prefer? ...Taking the top from one successful mold and combine with the bottom of another successful mold, and voilá... a new disc! And then add a millimeter to the rim width to turn a speed 12 disc into a brand new speed 13 disc? ... well, you see my point! Creative? I actually think that there's way too little trial and error attitude in disc design. If a discs design works, then congratulations to the manufacturer! If it doesn't work, it will be dumped eventually. The players will decide the faith of a mold, and from what I know, discs like Riot and Halo are pretty popular. Medius? I don't know.FHthrower said:
