Hard "dump over" disc for FH?

[Smigles1]

275, slightly downhill, you overthrow it... : Use a midrange or even a putter ?

 

[Fizzy]

Why not throw higher?

BTW All these people who say "develop touch and control" ... yeah they're right, but still, there's no reason to throw a fast disc down hill on a 275 foot hole, if it's going to up your probability of accidentally blowing by. I say, depending on how far right it has to "dump" try a Zone or a Drone. But really, if it was me, I'd just throw higher. Throw a Pred flat and high. Blow all your power up in the air. Let it fade/backslide at the basket.

 

[Eric O]

you might want to try a blaze or a whippet. I use a E demon for this shot I have a simlar sounding hole on my local course.

Whippet was my first though also.

 

[racer93]

Can't throw higher, it's guarded by limbs high, BAD trouble wide left and guardian trees tight on right. Only a 15-20' or so gap to hit.

It's a very touchy shot to throw a mid on becuase if you flip it (OAT), you're in the schule in a BAD way. Bogey if you're lucky. (The ground slopes away from the basket by 30' or so in about 30' from the basket. It's VERY steep and prone to rolling away, hence why I wanted something to dump very quickly.) Thus, I want something I'm confident will always come back and pretty fast. I can throw (and have thrown) a buzzz FH down there, but if a rogue gust of wind comes in... :shock:

Here's a link to a pic of the hole from the tee. http://www.dgcoursereview.com/gallery.php?id=1105&mode=gal&view=hole&hole=15&page=1# There is a gap to the right, but the gap I'm going for (and the less risky) is the one that can barely be seen on the left becuase of the bushes off the tee.

Mark, about backing off--I'd always heard to throw the same power level (75-80%) for most shots for consistency. Thus, for different distance needs, change discs. What I was meaning with "making mistakes" is that for me at least, if I start changing the power level, my timing gets screwed up.

 

[racer93]

Mark you missed the point he wanted to buy a new disc :-D So don't stop him from getting a Force which is too fast for a 400' FH thrower then but will make a great BH driver for him since he's 500'+ BH thrower. Especially for winds. Skill acquisition? That's like cheating I agree with others powering down will make the Pred bank harder at the end if there's no room for an s-curve. But a Spirit or Banshee and probably XXX would do it for you from a flat throw anyway. Spirit drops like mad and early. I throw sometimes a little over 400' BH and the Spirit drops early and if it's true that FH has less spin than BH for you it should fade even earlier so it may still be too much of a meathook released flat. But you and your mad power should be put in your place anyway :-D To teach you the humbleness the rest of us are forced to swallow. It's a good lesson that will make you a better placement if you take lessons from it. BH you'll love it for stiff headwinds because of your power probably meeting the exacting demands of that disc.

Easy there, tiger! I was only throwing maybe 350' early this spring, remember. I have eaten plenty of humble pie, especially earlier this year. It's just recently that I've made mad strides in the D department. My first 10 years of playing this game were throwing less than 375' max BH or FH. This taught me an awful lot about accuracy vs power. You have to be accurate if you can't throw far. Simple as that.

In terms of FH, I've smoothed my throw out greatly (see Avery's style) and it has led to a bunch more power. This has also led to problems keeping the disc under 300', even with a pred. This is ticking me off, as I used to throw FH with deadly accuracy. Now, not so much...

 

[HeartlessCynic]

This has also led to problems keeping the disc under 300', even with a pred.

The Pred has a freakish amount of glide in it for as stable as it is (at least domey Z ones do). I always had trouble listing it in with other meathooks (Firebird, XXX, ect.) because it doesn't fly like the rest of them.

 

[colombo117]

After looking at that pic I wonder, is the basket right next to that tree in the field?

If so I would just throw a hyzer shot back hand with your Pred.

Or is it back there in that opening in the woods?

If so I would try powering down on a Pred or throwing my XXX with a little annie release. I carry both at all times.

 

[money 21]

Ok, so I'm playing my home course and there is a hole I always throw FH on (300', slightly downhill that you must get past a row of trees on the R before dumping over hard R, plays around 275' or so). Since I've developed more power recently on my FH, I'm overthrowing this hole badly (75-100' at times) with my predators. I don't want to back off the power if I don't have to, as this leads to mistakes and missed throws.

Are there any discs you guys would recommend that are more overstable or more liable to dump over and crash and burn than a Z Pred would? I was thnking maybe a Banshee or a Flick? Any other or better thoughts? Or, something I can do to remedy it?

Thanks!

Backing off power leads to mistakes??? That is an odd way of looking at it. Backing off power leads to developing touch and control.

You should not need a separate disc for each distance. You just need to be able to scale back on the power of individual throws. Evidently the hole you are discussing is a pure FH hyzer so throw it flat and dial back slightly on power.

While i agree that developing touch is a great Idea, and as a weaker armed guy I have had to do alot of this myself to compete with the bigger arms, I also believe in throwing the slowest disc you can and still get the job done. If your bombing your pred look for something slower (I really like the e demon) and develope the touch with a more forgiving disc. Then you will more control when using the faster disc as well.

 

[racer93]

After looking at that pic I wonder, is the basket right next to that tree in the field?

If so I would just throw a hyzer shot back hand with your Pred.

Or is it back there in that opening in the woods?

If so I would try powering down on a Pred or throwing my XXX with a little annie release. I carry both at all times.

The opening I go for is just to the right of the bushes right off the tee. It's straight ahead, about 120' behind the line of trees that is straight.

 

[JR]

Not being able to throw FH under 300' with a Pred is what I would call a positive problem :-D Like masterbeato having trouble throwing BH under 500' Learning to power down is definitely a needed skill in your case. Once you develop touch for low powered throws you'll get more accurate with those than 80% power just like that 80% is better than 100 often. Until one learns to aim by snapping where 100 % becomes better. Which happens for a few players. Clear as mud? So 50 % 80 % and 100% are all great skills to have but you do also lack a few discs in your beg IMO. Hard fade mid like a Gator with a bead in Champ/Drone for going around obstacles/laughing at the winds and a hard fade driver like Max(longer faster)/Spirit(slower killer hooking fade) and a wind tolerant long distance driver like a 175 Z Force or if availability is an issue and you're lazy in hunting or ordering online then Champ 175 Xcaliber. A Spirit would overlap less with Force/C Xcal and drop faster than a Max making it better for winding among trees or sharp turns and it can take more headwind than anything I know of just get an E max weight. Maximum weight and hard plastics for each of these is what you need at your power for overstability and durability.

 

[keltik1]

After looking at that pic I wonder, is the basket right next to that tree in the field?

If so I would just throw a hyzer shot back hand with your Pred.

Or is it back there in that opening in the woods?

If so I would try powering down on a Pred or throwing my XXX with a little annie release. I carry both at all times.

The opening I go for is just to the right of the bushes right off the tee. It's straight ahead, about 120' behind the line of trees that is straight.

why in the name of god are you throwing a FH hyzer on that shot? why not throw a big BH hyzer with a putter. quit making things hard for yourself.

 

[zj10021]

i wish holes were that wide open here in austin...thats easier than zilker

anyways, try a whippet or just power down on a pred

 

[sunspot]

Just to clear things up concerning the hole, this picture was taken during winter/fall. This course plays a lot harder during the summer. Instead of seeing a bunch of naked tree limbs imagine it full of greenery. The shot gets harder and the gap gets a little smaller.

Speaking of the gaps, I usually throw a roc in the right gap. The times that I've thrown that way I end up with a birdie or par. I think the key is for me in the right gap is aim at the back where the trees are at. IMO, I think the left gap can be riskier due to the significant slope that leads to a creek bed and due to the limbs that force you to throw lower. The right gap does have significant curvature after the initial set of trees, but I think it's easier to maintain a better shot than trying to go the other route. The right gap doesn't force you to throw as low as the left gap, and it allows for more height. Regardless of either lane that a person make take, each one has it's advantages and disadvantages.

 

[Spinach D1]

Champ Monster is my recommendation. I carry a Champ Firebird and Champ Gator as well but the champ monster the the disc I would use for the shot you described.

 

[Flick4D1]

Z flicks, champ. monsters, 11x firebirds, XXX, should all work well at full power for this shot. Z crushes and champ. banshees could work, too. I've tried them all, and the only one that made the bag full time was the 11x FB. If I could no longer throw an 11x FB, I would replace it with a champ. monster or xxx and not skip a beat. The only slight difference is the monsters stay straighter a little bit longer than 11x FB's and XXX's, before fading hard.

It really depends on how hard you'd prefer to throw, and if you tend to take a little off in pressure situations. When there's no head wind, I tend to throw a low 160g ce firebird f for this shot because I can save my arm by not throwing as hard, and it's a bit more forgiving if I don't put quite enough on it. The closest equivalent of that ce firebird is probably a lighter 11x fb, 160ish z flick, or 170ish flat 11x champ. eagle. Heck, try 'em all, pick one, and use it frequently.

 

[racer93]

Just to clear things up concerning the hole, this picture was taken during winter/fall. This course plays a lot harder during the summer. Instead of seeing a bunch of naked tree limbs imagine it full of greenery. The shot gets harder and the gap gets a little smaller.

Speaking of the gaps, I usually throw a roc in the right gap. The times that I've thrown that way I end up with a birdie or par. I think the key is for me in the right gap is aim at the back where the trees are at. IMO, I think the left gap can be riskier due to the significant slope that leads to a creek bed and due to the limbs that force you to throw lower. The right gap does have significant curvature after the initial set of trees, but I think it's easier to maintain a better shot than trying to go the other route. The right gap doesn't force you to throw as low as the left gap, and it allows for more height. Regardless of either lane that a person make take, each one has it's advantages and disadvantages.

Chris is right about the pic being in winter and playing much harder in the summer.

The right gap is much more dangerous for several reasons. 1) You have THICK trees on the right and if you miss, you're settling for a bogey. 2) If you go even slightly long, you're settling for a par (hopefully) or a bogey. 3) If you're short, you can run at it, but the ground falls of SHARPLY after the basket, so it's a "death putt." It's an easy 3, but I'm going for the easier deuce from the gap on the left. Again, if you have a FH, that's the shot to do. Heck, I've been almost 100' long on this hole (past #14 tee) and still taken an easy 3. That's why I almost always go for the FH gap.

 

[racer93]

i wish holes were that wide open here in austin...thats easier than zilker

This wide open? Just remember that crack kills.

 

[racer93]

why in the name of god are you throwing a FH hyzer on that shot? why not throw a big BH hyzer with a putter. quit making things hard for yourself.

Some have tried doing the huge hyzer, but they would consistently end up in the creek to the left of the basket. These people don't throw that way anymore. The trees on the right of the pic (and basket) are MUCH thicker than they seem. You can't come crashing down into them and expect to be even halfway close. Trust us, the only ways into it are the left or right gaps (or possibly a big thumb hook straight but no one around here throws that shot).

 

[UpFromTheAshes1]

Daniel, I throw my Flick on that hole, fwiw.

And yeah, I'm with you, screw that right-side gap. Even if you hit it, you are fading down the slope.

 

[racer93]

I might have to meet up with you to try your disc out. I've only thrown a flick once, years ago. I might be out at CV this afternoon, if you're up for it...