[Innova] New Innova Stuff

[Casey 1988]

It's good that a respected player like Juliana Korver bags an Atlas, but I'm not really thinking of pros bagging it. I'm not sure the Atlas is selling to casual players, either. Maybe the Infinite Disc guys could give us an idea of how well Atlases are selling... opcorn:

Yep, I fear the mold is not selling due to the Atlas being an Innova style overmold.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Its not selling because Paul didn't throw it...

 

[Casey 1988]

Its not selling because Paul didn't throw it...

Not true, Paul never threw the Dart and yet that sells becuse Jeremy Kolling uses that disc, the Sonic sells because Garret Gurthie throws that, the KC Aviar sells and Paul never used that, lots of disc did or do not "need" Paul to sell them. It does not sell (Atlas) simple, not enough high profile sponsored players use the Atlas. Only JK uses it and since that was a more recent in last 5 years pick up for her then not enough for people to warrant using the disc as most people do not really buy newer molds that JK uses since she came back to doing disc golf touring. The Discs she uses that other average players and or non touring players use are the molds she has had from before she quit for a bit. Yeah the Atlas might be nice but I have 2 of the Champion Shark 3 for the same spot. No need for such a disc, Atlas was a redundant slot when the Mako was out before as a straight mold, later the 3 top made the Atlas totally redundant as both discs Mako/3 and Atlas have a similar profile.

 

[Hampstead]

Sexton gonna be low key pissed Jerm is getting credit for the Dart.

 

[brutalbrutus]

unneeded and not factual word salad....

The point I was making, is that the Nova only sold as well as it did because Paul threw it. Those discs just feel weird and tbh, I am not sure why anyone would want to throw a disc with "compass points"

 

[Alexplz]

The point I was making, is that the Nova only sold as well as it did because Paul threw it. Those discs just feel weird and tbh, I am not sure why anyone would want to throw a disc with "compass points"

I'm afraid this is 100% the case - Nova looks and feels like garbage. Especially compared to GYRO. I think the Nova and Altas would have been abject failures.

It flies OK tbh - not particularly special when compared to a grid aviar. Much less glide actually, which I guess is part of the draw. But enough park jobs on lead card from Paul and voila, Innova was able to sell a bushel of midgrade plastic discs at premium prices.

 

[SD86]

The point I was making, is that the Nova only sold as well as it did because Paul threw it. Those discs just feel weird and tbh, I am not sure why anyone would want to throw a disc with "compass points"

I'm afraid this is 100% the case - Nova looks and feels like garbage. Especially compared to GYRO. I think the Nova and Altas would have been abject failures.
It flies OK tbh - not particularly special when compared to a grid aviar. Much less glide actually, which I guess is part of the draw. But enough park jobs on lead card from Paul and voila, Innova was able to sell a bushel of midgrade plastic discs at premium prices.

Yes, I cut my fingers a few times on those compass points.

Flip side: the Nova really is a good disc to practice form. It helped me take care of wrist roll issues. Take a Nova or two out to the range to warm up for other throws, and if it's not going straight, work it out until it does. Then the other discs you(plural) throw will 'suddenly' fly more correctly for you, too...

And yes, if Paul McBeth had not have bagged it, it wouldn't have done as well. I dont know if it would have failed like the Atlas, but it wouldn't have been as popular.

 

[infinitedylan]

It's good that a respected player like Juliana Korver bags an Atlas, but I'm not really thinking of pros bagging it. I'm not sure the Atlas is selling to casual players, either. Maybe the Infinite Disc guys could give us an idea of how well Atlases are selling... opcorn:

It's not bad, but not the best. We can play a greater than / less than game:

In the last year, the Atlas sold better than:
Shark, RocX3, Colossus, Polecat, Groove

It sold worse than:
Caiman, Dart, KC Pro Aviar, Sonic, Nova, Destroyer

opcorn:

 

[hugheshilton]

I bought a first run Atlas when they came out. It felt just like a Buzzz. Comparing the rim, it also looked pretty much like a Buzzz. I threw it a few times and it also flew just like an ESP Buzzz for me as well. Which is fine because the Buzzz is a great mold, but if you want a Buzzz (and you're not an Innova-sponsored player), just buy the original. I could see a sponsored player who moved from Discraft to Innova and wanted a Buzzz clone throwing the Atlas. I don't think we've seen a ton of Discraft sponsored players jump ship to Innova though, so I'm not sure who the Atlas was really supposed to serve. It seemed like an okay mold though.

 

[Casey 1988]

Sexton gonna be low key pissed Jerm is getting credit for the Dart.

Sorry I mix up the two.

 

[Casey 1988]

I bought a first run Atlas when they came out. It felt just like a Buzzz. Comparing the rim, it also looked pretty much like a Buzzz. I threw it a few times and it also flew just like an ESP Buzzz for me as well. Which is fine because the Buzzz is a great mold, but if you want a Buzzz (and you're not an Innova-sponsored player), just buy the original. I could see a sponsored player who moved from Discraft to Innova and wanted a Buzzz clone throwing the Atlas. I don't think we've seen a ton of Discraft sponsored players jump ship to Innova though, so I'm not sure who the Atlas was really supposed to serve. It seemed like an okay mold though.

Now the Shark 3 is a Buzz disc even closer to the feel and flight of disc.

Atlas I think was just a mold in the lineup to compete with the MVP/Axiom brand. The Innova overmold discs were so hard to make the way Dave wanted to make them, he was quoted on this in a interview about the molds being hard to make that he was not going to make more molds in his overmold process.

 

[hugheshilton]

Now the Shark 3 is a Buzz disc even closer to the feel and flight of disc.

Atlas I think was just a mold in the lineup to compete with the MVP/Axiom brand. The Innova overmold discs were so hard to make the way Dave wanted to make them, he was quoted on this in a interview about the molds being hard to make that he was not going to make more molds in his overmold process.

Nope, sorry disagree. The Shark3 has that weird Shark rim shape which is nothing like a Buzzz. It may fly similarly, but it doesn't feel like a Buzzz in the hand at all. Innova may have also had some overmold envy with the Atlas, but it's definitely closer to a Buzzz than the Shark3.

 

[Casey 1988]

Yes, I cut my fingers a few times on those compass points.

Flip side: the Nova really is a good disc to practice form. It helped me take care of wrist roll issues. Take a Nova or two out to the range to warm up for other throws, and if it's not going straight, work it out until it does. Then the other discs you(plural) throw will 'suddenly' fly more correctly for you, too...

And yes, if Paul McBeth had not have bagged it, it wouldn't have done as well. I dont know if it would have failed like the Atlas, but it wouldn't have been as popular.

I doubt the Nova would have failed as I bet as another popular player uses the disc as well one of the female players uses the disc with great results as does another since 2017-2018 years to become a more high profile player use the Nova as one of his driving Putters, Bradly Willams and he has a touring Nova Champion edtion with his name on it. So the Innova company would still sell Novas in a solid good amount for the mold to be really good just not the amount they have done up to now or getting people to pay almost premium for the Paul McBeth Touring Series version in the McBeth Pro/Touring Pro Plastic which is dumb since his name was on the Production Nova. The One flaw most have with McBeth Pro/Touring Pro Plastic to a number of people need the slick feeling of that McBeth Pro/Touring Pro Plastic when new to wear off to have the disc the way they like them it is also a reason why some people like me would not use discs in the McBeth Pro/Touring Pro Plastic if a run of a disc was made in that plastic of a disc Innova makes that I use.

 

[Casey 1988]

Nope, sorry disagree. The Shark3 has that weird Shark rim shape which is nothing like a Buzzz. It may fly similarly, but it doesn't feel like a Buzzz in the hand at all. Innova may have also had some overmold envy with the Atlas, but it's definitely closer to a Buzzz than the Shark3.

Shark 3 does feel like a Buzz even in shape, just the Shark 3 is more pronounced version of the bend that is on the Buzz rim both noses are different, the Buzz is more pointed then the Round Shark 3 but both are rounded. The Atlas on the other hand has a more straight rim compared to Buzz yeah the nose of Atlas might be almost identical to the Buzz but the rim of the Shark 3 is a more pronounced Buzz rim.

However this is just my opinion.

 

[SD86]

Atlas I think was just a mold in the lineup to compete with the MVP/Axiom brand. The Innova overmold discs were so hard to make the way Dave wanted to make them, he was quoted on this in a interview about the molds being hard to make that he was not going to make more molds in his overmold process.

Agree in that I think Dave Dunipace wanted to try an overmold, perhaps to throw in the face of MVP's impending patent. I agree with you that it didn't work out so well for him, so he abandoned further efforts.

Nope, sorry disagree. The Shark3 has that weird Shark rim shape which is nothing like a Buzzz. It may fly similarly, but it doesn't feel like a Buzzz in the hand at all. Innova may have also had some overmold envy with the Atlas, but it's definitely closer to a Buzzz than the Shark3.

I like the Sherk3 and I like the Buzzz. But the one has never made me think of the other, either in feel or flight.

 

[hugheshilton]

I like the Sherk3 and I like the Buzzz. But the one has never made me think of the other, either in feel or flight.

Agreed. I've only ever owned 1 Shark3 and it didn't make me think of a Buzzz particularly either. Then again, the one I had was pretty overstable and somewhat glideless, and I don't think all Shark3's are like that from what I've read. Still, I have a hard time imagining one flying like a Buzzz. It certainly never felt like one in the hand to me.

 

[Casey 1988]

Agree in that I think Dave Dunipace wanted to try an overmold, perhaps to throw in the face of MVP's impending patent. I agree with you that it didn't work out so well for him, so he abandoned further efforts.



I like the Sherk3 and I like the Buzzz. But the one has never made me think of the other, either in feel or flight.

Part on yes I agree on the Disc, a overmold just to throw it in the Face of MVP but the facy that Innova did such a different Overmold that according to Dave and an interview in 2015 or 2016 the discs were hard to make right so he said he was never going to pursue the Idea of more overmolds.

Part 2 both discs are concave in feel on the Rim/wing and the Shark 3 felt like Innova's best copy of a Buzz though the Shark 3 is a tad bit more straight then the Buzz as if the Buzz is just a tad SS from the Shark 3 and one has to hyzerflip the Buzz a bit more or power off a tad on Buzz from the power one can put on a Shark 3 to have the straight disc flight that the Shark 3 has. If I were to use the Buzz I would get the Titanium and Z Buzz to get one that is more OS then the regular Buzz as the Buzz OS is more like a bead less Wasp in terms of flight.

 

[SonicGuy]

I'm afraid this is 100% the case - Nova looks and feels like garbage. Especially compared to GYRO. I think the Nova and Altas would have been abject failures.

It flies OK tbh - not particularly special when compared to a grid aviar. Much less glide actually, which I guess is part of the draw. But enough park jobs on lead card from Paul and voila, Innova was able to sell a bushel of midgrade plastic discs at premium prices.

Yeah it looks and feels like garbage but it actually flies very well if you have at least an ounce of skill. I was shocked how well it flew, given the crap look and feel.

 

[Myke566]

Anyone throw the new VAviar3? Oh wait, that's the Luna.

 

[brutalbrutus]

Innova: Lion 1-31-2019

180.1g
21.7 dia
1.7 height
1.4 rim depth
19.0 inside rim dia
1.3 rim thickness
6.5 rim config

Mid range of some sort?...