One leg drill, stupid question.

[RoDeO]

350 is a common ceiling for experienced strongarmers.

Either you're not doing what you think you are doing which is rotating before the plant, or you're strongarming.

I hate being blunt, but your view is not really an opinion. It's simply incorrect.

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So, I threw it over what an experienced strongarmer's ceiling is and also into a headwind, and I've only been playing 3 months. Not bad!

 

[RowingBoats]

So, I threw it over what an experienced strongarmer's ceiling is and also into a headwind, and I've only been playing 3 months. Not bad!

Uh oh. Is your next thread going to explain how a 10mph headwind decreases distance?

 

[RoDeO]

Rotational energy has to build up and let go or come out into the arm in order to throw far. I dont think anyone will dispute that. It's what causes that rotation to begin with and when that rotation begins that's in dispute.

 

[NoseDownKing]

So, I threw it over what an experienced strongarmer's ceiling is and also into a headwind, and I've only been playing 3 months. Not bad!

Can you legitemately prove with images or pictures, that the hips begin to rotate before the front foot plants? Like a super slow-mo or screenshots on certain parts of the throw.

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[RoDeO]

Can you legitemately prove with images or pictures, that the hips begin to rotate before the front foot plants? Like a super slow-mo or screenshots on certain parts of the throw.

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Sure.
Here-
https://youtu.be/ZOofFbzTgjo
Watch her rear leg, especially the direction of the knee and foot. Just before her weight plants onto her front leg her rear knee and leg is bent and pointing forward. The only way that leg can be in that position is if the hip is rotating forward. It is that action that triggers or starts the kinetic rotation that moves to the other hip and up the torso and into the shoulders.

 

[mojorooks]

I "think" I'm pressing the nice button, Juan.

No scooby. You are not pressing the nice button. Even though you may have video evidence and said you did, I am obstinately ignorant.

 

[scooby snack]

No scooby. You are not pressing the nice button. Even though you may have video evidence and said you did, I am obstinately ignorant.

I'm having trouble with reality lately. Maybe I should try living in my own world like OP?

 

[twistedraven]

Sure.
Here-
https://youtu.be/ZOofFbzTgjo
Watch her rear leg, especially the direction of the knee and foot. Just before her weight plants onto her front leg her rear knee and leg is bent and pointing forward. The only way that leg can be in that position is if the hip is rotating forward. It is that action that triggers or starts the kinetic rotation that moves to the other hip and up the torso and into the shoulders.

Her hips are closed until the very moment her rear leg is deweighted. The second it's deweighted, the weight is braced up against the front foot, and she starts opening up her hips. She is not rotating her hips when her rear knee is pushing into her brace. She is shifting her hips. The key thing to remember is this: shifting does not open up the hips. Rotating opens up the hips.

 

[azplaya25]

Her hips are closed until the very moment her rear leg is deweighted. The second it's deweighted, the weight is braced up against the front foot, and she starts opening up her hips. She is not rotating her hips when her rear knee is pushing into her brace. She is shifting her hips. The key thing to remember is this: shifting does not open up the hips. Rotating opens up the hips.

Yep - exactly the same story as the two pictures I posted of Sidewinder.


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[RoDeO]

Her hips are closed until the very moment her rear leg is deweighted. The second it's deweighted, the weight is braced up against the front foot, and she starts opening up her hips. She is not rotating her hips when her rear knee is pushing into her brace. She is shifting her hips. The key thing to remember is this: shifting does not open up the hips. Rotating opens up the hips.

Her rear hip is rotating and then both hips are rotating before her front hip braces the weight. Watch it frame by frame.

 

[sidewinder22]

Her rear hip is rotating and then both hips are rotating before her front hip braces the weight. Watch it frame by frame.

Doesn't look like she is trying to rotate before shifting. Looks more like she is trying to delay rotation.

You are rotating much faster and earlier than Paige. Early Hip Extension aka Humping the Goat.

 

[navel]

Hey guys! RoDeO here, posting from an alternative account.

So yesterday I was walking around in my house and I noticed how when walking all the power comes from rotating the hips with each step. And yea hush hush, I know that people are already walking and have been walking for years, but I really think my approach is going to revolutionize the act of walking. Watch a slow-mo if you don't trust me and see for yourself! The hips are turning with each step, therefore I'm right! So now I'm forcefully turning my hips with each step, and let me tell you- WOW! I can now walk so much better. Soon I will be able to out-walk all of you close minded sheeple. BOOM!

Next up on 'Learning With RoDeO': How to blink. (In this chapter we will take a look on how the eyelids are not actually moving in a straight line when observed closely. So, if you just turn them forcefully down in a rotational fashion you will blink much more efficient. Also we will take a look how to breath just by punching yourself hard in the stomach repeatably.)

 

[sidewinder22]

It's sad to me to see people try to compare golf swing mechanics to disc golf throw mechanics. They are similar in some respects but totally different where it matters. The way in which the hips rotate or clear is different for a golf swing versus a disc release. They are on two totally different planes and axis. Up to down is different than side to side. The way in which the hips rotate or clear is different mechanics for each. So is the footing, the step or stance, the backswing, the follow through, etc. Even the brace is different.

 

[RoDeO]

Doesn't look like she is trying to rotate before shifting. Looks more like she is trying to delay rotation.

You are rotating much faster and earlier than Paige. Early Hip Extension aka Humping the Goat.

She is still beginning rotation before front foot plant. Thats my whole point.

I'm surprised you don't say anything about Paiges apparent hugging issue here.

 

[RoDeO]

Tell you what, get a pro golfer to play baseball for the first time and be good at it and I will believe you.

 

[RoDeO]

Doesn't look like she is trying to rotate before shifting. Looks more like she is trying to delay rotation.

You are rotating much faster and earlier than Paige. Early Hip Extension aka Humping the Goat.

I'm not rotating faster than Paige. I may be rotating a bit sooner but Paige has crazy fast rotation speed, way quicker than mine. That is the key to throwing far. Look at her crazy fast hip and torso rotation-

https://youtu.be/aJMIZOMFVBI

 

[timothy42b]

Thinking out loud (with no justification but the ability to touch type.) Two thoughts.

If we had a force plate like the ball golfers do, and swing analysis software, like Swing Catalyst or any of the other contenders, what would it show?

It should show a rear leg force being applied to the rear, and then a front leg force being applied forward to brace as the rear leg deweights, it's pretty clear that does happen.

It might show a force at right angles to that. That force would be applied by the front foot towards the left of the teepad, moving the front hip back towards the right of the teepad. That would be the rotation force Rodeo is talking about.

It might be that ball golfers use more of that right angle force, because they can, standing on two legs. The Kyle Berkshire videos talk about those forces too, as do the videos Left Foot in Crazy Detail and Right Foot in Crazy Detail. Scott Lynn implies both directions of force contribute to the really long ball hitters. It might be that we disc golfers don't need to because we get to take a step or run up. (It might be that we do need to, but that trying to do it messes us up.)

 

[twistedraven]

I'm not rotating faster than Paige. I may be rotating a bit sooner but Paige has crazy fast rotation speed, way quicker than mine. That is the key to throwing far. Look at her crazy fast hip and torso rotation-

https://youtu.be/aJMIZOMFVBI

Notice how in the video she doesn't start rotating her hips until the heel of her plant foot is down. Prior to that she's shoving her weight and bending her left knee into her plant. This is different from spinning on the ball of your plant foot, and falling into the heel of you front foot while already spinning. I would agree that the rate at which she rotates her hips is very fast, but it's after she's completed her plant.


These are all low fps videos though. If you really wanted to break down timing, procure a 120fps or 240fps video of a pro driving.

 

[Discette]

I'm not rotating faster than Paige. I may be rotating a bit sooner but Paige has crazy fast rotation speed, way quicker than mine. That is the key to throwing far. Look at her crazy fast hip and torso rotation-

https://youtu.be/aJMIZOMFVBI

Doesn't look like she is trying to rotate before shifting. Looks more like she is trying to delay rotation.

You are rotating much faster and earlier than Paige. Early Hip Extension aka Humping the Goat.

DING DING DING!! You and Sidewinder agree on something. And it is an important point.



You are already starting your throw, or turning, SOONER than Paige. Paige is waiting a split second and building the whip before accelerating her arm. She is WAITING to throw.


BTW, what helped me the most was not worrying about all the footwork, rotating or planting, but WAITING. Waiting to throw until after my disc had reached my face then gripping the disc as tight as possible and throwing as fast as possible. If you start throwing while your arm is back, you are losing the benefit of the whip and the power you generate from your "awesome" hip turn.

Just do whatever you are currently doing for whatever reasons, but WAIT to throw and then explode very fast.


Also, your forward shoulder is strangely collapsed or hinged. Paige's shoulders are on the exact same plane as her forearm AND her disc. Your disc and forearm are on a different angles from each other and all angles are different than your shoulders. I don't know how to fix that, but I imagine getting your arm and wrist at same angle is bound to help. Does your disc sometimes flutter when you throw "hard"?

 

[RoDeO]

DING DING DING!! You and Sidewinder agree on something. And it is an important point.



You are already starting your throw, or turning, SOONER than Paige. Paige is waiting a split second and building the whip before accelerating her arm. She is WAITING to throw.


BTW, what helped me the most was not worrying about all the footwork, rotating or planting, but WAITING. Waiting to throw until after my disc had reached my face then gripping the disc as tight as possible and throwing as fast as possible. If you start throwing while your arm is back, you are losing the benefit of the whip and the power you generate from your "awesome" hip turn.

Just do whatever you are currently doing for whatever reasons, but WAIT to throw and then explode very fast.


Also, your forward shoulder is strangely collapsed or hinged. Paige's shoulders are on the exact same plane as her forearm AND her disc. Your disc and forearm are on a different angles from each other and all angles are different than your shoulders. I don't know how to fix that, but I imagine getting your arm and wrist at same angle is bound to help. Does your disc sometimes flutter when you throw "hard"?

I have been working on keeping my back turned longer and slowing things down a bit in my runup. Also been working on keeping my arm looser until the power pocket.

I don't worry about how my front foot is landing or when my hip is turning. I look at throwers like Marc Jarvis, who was a great distance guy and he opens up sooner than me with more initial hip rotation too. He could throw a mile. I have practiced around with when to open my hips and haven't found no advantage to keeping them closed into foot plant. That actually hurt my distance. I wonder how guys like Jarvis learned to throw. By today's teaching standards his mechanics would be garbage. And yet, he can throw farther than almost any person in here. So, I font put much stock in when and how much hip rotation one has into foot plant. Some have a lot and others have very little and it doesn't appear it makes much difference distance wise.

I almost never get much flutter. The harder I throw the less flutter I get. The disc usually comes out very smooth. I use a 2 finger grip.