One leg drill, stupid question.

[RoDeO]

Notice how in the video she doesn't start rotating her hips until the heel of her plant foot is down. Prior to that she's shoving her weight and bending her left knee into her plant. This is different from spinning on the ball of your plant foot, and falling into the heel of you front foot while already spinning. I would agree that the rate at which she rotates her hips is very fast, but it's after she's completed her plant.


These are all low fps videos though. If you really wanted to break down timing, procure a 120fps or 240fps video of a pro driving.

the only way the knee can dip and "turn" inwards is if the hip is rotating. That's my whole point. What others see as a lateral drive with the hip I see a lateral and rotating hip drive. The front hip also starts to rotate just before solid contact by the front foot.

This video clearly shows Paiges hip turning before front foot solid contact.
https://youtu.be/ZG3YXTE2Dx0

 

[sidewinder22]

She is still beginning rotation before front foot plant. Thats my whole point.

I'm surprised you don't say anything about Paiges apparent hugging issue here.

I have not disagreed with you that rotation happens before the plant. The intention is different though as she has stated so herself.

Paige is not hugging herself. Her arm is not collapsing against the chest like Rebecca Cox.

 

[RoDeO]

I have not disagreed with you that rotation happens before the plant. The intention is different though as she has stated so herself.

Paige is not hugging herself. Her arm is not collapsing against the chest like Rebecca Cox.

I always thought that hugging was when the disc gets too close and around the trailing arm. I have noticed on occasion that both Paul Mcbeth and Paige Pierce do that sometimes when they pony up to throw absolute max distance- they don't get the disc into their chest/abdomen area but it only gets around their rear arm before coming around their body.

 

[sidewinder22]

Tell you what, get a pro golfer to play baseball for the first time and be good at it and I will believe you.

Trout killed the golf ball.

 

[sidewinder22]

the only way the knee can dip and "turn" inwards is if the hip is rotating. That's my whole point. What others see as a lateral drive with the hip I see a lateral and rotating hip drive. The front hip also starts to rotate just before solid contact by the front foot.

This video clearly shows Paiges hip turning before front foot solid contact.
https://youtu.be/ZG3YXTE2Dx0

If you step behind(x-step) your pelvis has no choice but to start rotating striding forward to the plant, but happening from swinging the front leg forward.

 

[RoDeO]

So, at least we can agree that rotation begins before front foot plant.

 

[twistedraven]

You're still shifting your hips though. The whole lead with hips/butt thing is a result of shifting/rocking the hips forward. It's how you get all your weight shifted into that brace. Form has all to do with timing, and the hips don't start rotating fast until the disc has already entered the power pocket and begun whipping out. You're building up all this power and unleashing it all at the release of the disc. The arm stays lose into the power pocket, the hips stay loaded and don't rotate early, and all your body weight is propelled upwards into your release. All this happens on sync. Rotating you hips as fast as possible before you're meant to only kills distance.


I'm not going to take you for stupid Rodeo, but I just think the majority of this topic stems from slight misunderstanding of the same of very close ideology on how a backhand should be performed.

 

[RoDeO]

You're still shifting your hips though. The whole lead with hips/butt thing is a result of shifting/rocking the hips forward. It's how you get all your weight shifted into that brace. Form has all to do with timing, and the hips don't start rotating fast until the disc has already entered the power pocket and begun whipping out. You're building up all this power and unleashing it all at the release of the disc. The arm stays lose into the power pocket, the hips stay loaded and don't rotate early, and all your body weight is propelled upwards into your release. All this happens on sync. Rotating you hips as fast as possible before you're meant to only kills distance.


I'm not going to take you for stupid Rodeo, but I just think the majority of this topic stems from slight misunderstanding of the same of very close ideology on how a backhand should be performed.

I think most of the discussion has been miscommunication and differences in conceptualizing motions.

I agree with almost everything you just said. The hips begin rotating and building up energy quite early in the throw. By the time the disc is being pulled in very close to the power pocket, before acceleration phase, the hips have already begun acceleration phase full bore and the torso is just starting to accelerate. That's all happening during the weight shift as weight transfers from the rear leg to the front leg. There isn't a well defined moment or point in hip rotation as it relates to weight shift where there is a noticeable difference or change in rotation. The transition or acceleration is rather linear of the hip rotation as it begins on the rear leg and ends on the front leg.

 

[azplaya25]

BTW, what helped me the most was not worrying about all the footwork, rotating or planting, but WAITING. Waiting to throw until after my disc had reached my face then gripping the disc as tight as possible and throwing as fast as possible. If you start throwing while your arm is back, you are losing the benefit of the whip and the power you generate from your "awesome" hip turn.

Just do whatever you are currently doing for whatever reasons, but WAIT to throw and then explode very fast.

This is fantastic advice. Almost makes it worth wading through the past 4 days of noise. Almost

 

[RoDeO]

This is fantastic advice. Almost makes it worth wading through the past 4 days of noise. Almost

I agree. Excellent advice. I can always tell when Im throwing good because my arm feels loose and it whips easy.

 

[SaROCaM]

I look at throwers like Marc Jarvis, who was a great distance guy and he opens up sooner than me with more initial hip rotation too.

I wonder how guys like Jarvis learned to throw. By today's teaching standards his mechanics would be garbage.

These are bold claims. I haven't seen Jarvis throwing with early opening or "garbage" mechanics like you describe.

 

[RoDeO]

These are bold claims. I haven't seen Jarvis throwing with early opening or "garbage" mechanics like you describe.

His hip rotation is very early, plants very open. Every critique in here says that's bad. I find nothing wrong with it myself. Whatever makes you throw well.

https://youtu.be/DWlPJUk-rAM

https://youtu.be/L9cFADQomwY

 

[SaROCaM]

His hip rotation is very early, plants very open. Every critique in here says that's bad. I find nothing wrong with it myself. Whatever makes you throw well.

https://youtu.be/DWlPJUk-rAM

https://youtu.be/L9cFADQomwY

He is clearly still closed at the plant. It is even more apparent in the view from behind, where his hips are pointing at 8:00.

Clear contrast with you at the plant where your hips are wide open with front side already extended.

Also look at how his shoulders and upper arm form about a 135 degree angle, while your shoulders and upper arm form an angle < 90 degrees. Your early rotation is causing you to drag your arm. You have leaked a lot of power already and are swinging from a position that gives you less leverage.

 

[RoDeO]

He is clearly still closed at the plant. It is even more apparent in the view from behind, where his hips are pointing at 8:00.

Clear contrast with you at the plant where your hips are wide open with front side already extended.

Also look at how his shoulders and upper arm form about a 135 degree angle, while your shoulders and upper arm form an angle < 90 degrees. Your early rotation is causing you to drag your arm. You have leaked a lot of power already and are swinging from a position that gives you less leverage.

His hip is clearly coming open as he plants.

 

[SaROCaM]

His hip is clearly coming open as he plants.

Which is another way of saying it isn't open yet.

Your claims:
1) he opens sooner than you
2) he plants very open

Both are inaccurate as proven by photo evidence.

 

[RoDeO]

Sidewinder would be all over his foot plant.

 

[RoDeO]

Which is another way of saying it isn't open yet.

Your claims:
1) he opens sooner than you
2) he plants very open

Both are inaccurate as proven by photo evidence.

Whatever you want to believe. I can clearly see for myself.

 

[sidewinder22]

Sidewinder would be all over his foot plant.

I don't know what you are talking about.

 

[RoDeO]

I don't know what you are talking about.

Aren't you always teaching the angle the front foot should plant at?

 

[SaROCaM]

Whatever you want to believe. I can clearly see for myself.

For the record, you are saying this is 1) planted very open, 2) open earlier than you, and 3) "garbage mechanics?"