One leg drill, stupid question.

[sidewinder22]

If we were to try learning how to brace by teetering off the back leg before adding rear leg drive, how much throw distance do you think would be a good indicator that we've properly learned the teeter and brace and are ready to add in rear leg drive? Roughly speaking, of course, as I'm sure it varies person to person

Weird question. It's all about landing in dynamic balance on the front leg. Rear leg drive just increases the dynamic angle / into the plant/brace.

 

[timothy42b]

The no pushing video makes sense, as do the one leg videos and the comments by sw22 and hub.

But then there's the triple extension pitching video in the Drive Leg Mechanics thread that recommends using ankle knee and hip extension, and the Kyle Berkshire youtube video that shows lateral and vertical forces (and the other one by the same guy that talks about the jump test, and shows that his subject is not coordinating knee and ankle extension so he's not an efficient jumper.)

Maybe it's a development thing? At my level still trying to break 300 I don't need anything more than getting weight to the front leg somehow?

 

[RocHucker]

Maybe it's a development thing? At my level still trying to break 300 I don't need anything more than getting weight to the front leg somehow?

Take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt, as I'm stuck at around 360-380ft and can't seem to grasp true good form, but I THINK that good coiling and releasing of the arm, and the resulting snap on the disc, should be enough to get almost anyone above 300ft. I'm 6'3" and have an above average though not at all stellar athletic background, so I don't know how much of my distance advantage over you is just a body thing, but I also have terrible lower body form when it comes to disc golf. So what I'm trying to say is that if you haven't yet broken 300ft then I'd suspect that you might be too stiff in your wrist or your arm, or maybe your grip is wrong or something like that. And it might be necessary to fix that before power generated in your lower body could even make it through your arm and to the disc, even if your legs were behaving perfectly.

That's just my honest attempt at being helpful, but I may be totally wrong.

 

[timothy42b]

Take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt, as I'm stuck at around 360-380ft and can't seem to grasp true good form, but I THINK that good coiling and releasing of the arm, and the resulting snap on the disc, should be enough to get almost anyone above 300ft. I'm 6'3" and have an above average though not at all stellar athletic background, so I don't know how much of my distance advantage over you is just a body thing, but I also have terrible lower body form when it comes to disc golf. So what I'm trying to say is that if you haven't yet broken 300ft then I'd suspect that you might be too stiff in your wrist or your arm, or maybe your grip is wrong or something like that. And it might be necessary to fix that before power generated in your lower body could even make it through your arm and to the disc, even if your legs were behaving perfectly.

That's just my honest attempt at being helpful, but I may be totally wrong.

Yes, you've hit on the other problem I suspect I have.

I'm working on getting the weight forward, etc., because I can see it in the mirror or the video. And, also, nose up has always been a problem and getting to the front leg helps that. I spent a half hour this morning throwing putters at the soccer field and I was getting much more nose down and farther throws with less effort. It felt so good I quit early before I lost it (superstition). But 200 seems to be my limit with an Aviar. 250 or so with a midrange, I throw mostly Leopards. I'm 5'10, 135, in my 60s.

I have a relative who does not seem to get any weight transfer or body into the throw, it's more of a forearm flick, but her distance is close to mine. I conclude she's doing the wrist or pivot or something correctly. I've tried to catch her on video but she always evades.

 

[RocHucker]

Of course now I just watched HUB's video from a few posts ago and he said to focus on the hips and the correct wrist action would come later so... what do I know.

Does anyone out there who throws over 400ft agree or disagree that timothy's goal to break 300ft should be achievable with mostly just a good arm action?

Or, conversely, if the "good arm action" that I think that I have can reach 350ft + without proper lower body engagement, is my arm action likely an incorrect technique that is able to peak at 350ft + but will likely never be compatible with good overall technique to break 400ft + ?

 

[RocHucker]

One thing that shouldn't be lost in the conversation and is vital to this drill is that hip rotation or torso rotation starts just prior to front foot/brace leg contact. By the time the weight has shifted fully to the fron foot at brace moment, and the shift has gone mostly from the back foot to the front foot, the disc is still in the reach back position but the hip has already rotated to where it's now straight out from the body. There's a lot of talk about not rotating until one has planted onto the brace leg. This is true for the shoulders. But the hips have already rotated halfway through its motion by this point.

What do you mean by the hip being "straight out from the body"? Which hip? Which way is straight out? I can't picture what this position looks or feels like.

And the idea of the hips rotating before the front foot is fully weighted is contrary to what I thought I understood from SW22's "crush the can, THEN turn" teachings, but 1:40 in HUB's video a few posts ago seems to agree with the hips substantially turning before front foot is totally weighted. Are they saying different things or am I just really not understanding what is being taught?

 

[sidewinder22]

The no pushing video makes sense, as do the one leg videos and the comments by sw22 and hub.

But then there's the triple extension pitching video in the Drive Leg Mechanics thread that recommends using ankle knee and hip extension, and the Kyle Berkshire youtube video that shows lateral and vertical forces (and the other one by the same guy that talks about the jump test, and shows that his subject is not coordinating knee and ankle extension so he's not an efficient jumper.)

Maybe it's a development thing? At my level still trying to break 300 I don't need anything more than getting weight to the front leg somehow?

Looking at your last video, your mechanics look good, but it's not one fluid rhythmic motion, it's broken into pieces/pauses/staccato.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yes, you've hit on the other problem I suspect I have.

I'm working on getting the weight forward, etc., because I can see it in the mirror or the video. And, also, nose up has always been a problem and getting to the front leg helps that. I spent a half hour this morning throwing putters at the soccer field and I was getting much more nose down and farther throws with less effort. It felt so good I quit early before I lost it (superstition). But 200 seems to be my limit with an Aviar. 250 or so with a midrange, I throw mostly Leopards. I'm 5'10, 135, in my 60s.

I have a relative who does not seem to get any weight transfer or body into the throw, it's more of a forearm flick, but her distance is close to mine. I conclude she's doing the wrist or pivot or something correctly. I've tried to catch her on video but she always evades.

Of course now I just watched HUB's video from a few posts ago and he said to focus on the hips and the correct wrist action would come later so... what do I know.

Does anyone out there who throws over 400ft agree or disagree that timothy's goal to break 300ft should be achievable with mostly just a good arm action?

Or, conversely, if the "good arm action" that I think that I have can reach 350ft + without proper lower body engagement, is my arm action likely an incorrect technique that is able to peak at 350ft + but will likely never be compatible with good overall technique to break 400ft + ?

Half of it is getting your body out of the way for the arm to work properly and whip. Only need a little bit of the body to get the arm to whip.

 

[sidewinder22]

What do you mean by the hip being "straight out from the body"? Which hip? Which way is straight out? I can't picture what this position looks or feels like.

And the idea of the hips rotating before the front foot is fully weighted is contrary to what I thought I understood from SW22's "crush the can, THEN turn" teachings, but 1:40 in HUB's video a few posts ago seems to agree with the hips substantially turning before front foot is totally weighted. Are they saying different things or am I just really not understanding what is being taught?

One Leg Drill the front foot remains weighted on the ground, so I'm not sure what Rodeo is talking about there. The hips are independent of each other. The rear hip is hanging/extended from the pelvis with the front hip still closed to target at the plant. The rear leg's main function is to laterally/linearly move your body targetward to get on the front leg, there will be some rotation before the plant due to how the body works, but the big rotation doesn't happen until you are planted on the front leg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CSHqnYNijw&t=2m

Note how the player on right has opened up the front side into the plant and the rear femur is not hanging vertically extended.

 

[SaROCaM]

One thing that shouldn't be lost in the conversation and is vital to this drill is that hip rotation or torso rotation starts just prior to front foot/brace leg contact. By the time the weight has shifted fully to the fron foot at brace moment, and the shift has gone mostly from the back foot to the front foot, the disc is still in the reach back position but the hip has already rotated to where it's now straight out from the body. There's a lot of talk about not rotating until one has planted onto the brace leg. This is true for the shoulders. But the hips have already rotated halfway through its motion by this point.

What do you mean by the hip being "straight out from the body"? Which hip? Which way is straight out? I can't picture what this position looks or feels like.

And the idea of the hips rotating before the front foot is fully weighted is contrary to what I thought I understood from SW22's "crush the can, THEN turn" teachings, but 1:40 in HUB's video a few posts ago seems to agree with the hips substantially turning before front foot is totally weighted. Are they saying different things or am I just really not understanding what is being taught?

From their previous video it sounds like Rodeo is saying the hips should be opened up into the plant. If so, that would look more like the player on the right in SW22's post who has opened up too soon.

Watch HUB's video around the 3:50 mark for the sequence. Hips move laterally into the plant, which is where the one leg drill starts. Then the swing/rotation happens.

What HUB is saying in the earlier part of the video is to move the hips laterally first. You need both the lateral move and the rotational move but the lateral move comes first. Essentially it's making sure you get on the front leg.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

From their previous video it sounds like Rodeo is saying the hips should be opened up into the plant. If so, that would look more like the player on the right in SW22's post who has opened up too soon.

Watch HUB's video around the 3:50 mark for the sequence. Hips move laterally into the plant, which is where the one leg drill starts. Then the swing/rotation happens.

What HUB is saying in the earlier part of the video is to move the hips laterally first. You need both the lateral move and the rotational move but the lateral move comes first. Essentially it's making sure you get on the front leg.

Exact-a-mundo.

When I see players either
A. spinning in place
B. unable to get off the back foot
C. pushing hard off the back foot and spinning around the plant

... I try to force them into a mandatory lateral move first, before the disc starts coming forward. If you're looking at where your hips are (in a video) from the top of the backswing and they haven't made a move forward when you're at the "downswing" to the center chest, then you're not making a lateral move.

 

[azplaya25]

Exact-a-mundo.

When I see players either
A. spinning in place
B. unable to get off the back foot
C. pushing hard off the back foot and spinning around the plant

... I try to force them into a mandatory lateral move first, before the disc starts coming forward. If you're looking at where your hips are (in a video) from the top of the backswing and they haven't made a move forward when you're at the "downswing" to the center chest, then you're not making a lateral move.

This is something I've really struggled with. Here's an example of the first move with the hips being rotational. Totally messes the whole system up, brace ends up with the knee bending and twisting, disc comes up nose up.





Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sidewinder22]

This is something I've really struggled with. Here's an example of the first move with the hips being rotational. Totally messes the whole system up, brace ends up with the knee bending and twisting, disc comes up nose up.

Yeah, can see the difference in lateral shift and smoothness.

 

[RoDeO]

What do you mean by the hip being "straight out from the body"? Which hip? Which way is straight out? I can't picture what this position looks or feels like.

And the idea of the hips rotating before the front foot is fully weighted is contrary to what I thought I understood from SW22's "crush the can, THEN turn" teachings, but 1:40 in HUB's video a few posts ago seems to agree with the hips substantially turning before front foot is totally weighted. Are they saying different things or am I just really not understanding what is being taught?

The hip being straight meaning it has rotated back from the reach back position to a neutral position 90 degrees from the release location. From there it rotates another 30-40 degrees or so at the moment of release. My main point is that the hips begin rotating from the reach back position and are halfway through their rotation by the time the weight has shifted from rear leg to front leg.

 

[RoDeO]

https://youtu.be/YIlGk-8y1_c

Watch Eagles knees closely in relation to his weight shift from rear to front foot. The knee is the indicator of hip rotation. Just before front foot contact the knee begins to dip and turn indicating hip rotation. By the time his rear foot begins to come up, which indicates the moment of weight shift, his hips have already rotated approximately 45 degrees which is halfway through total hip rotation from reachback to disc release moment. Now, also of importance, his reachback is still back, with shoulders still yet to rotate forward at the moment of weight shift. So, even though his shoulders have yet to rotate forward at the exact monwnt of weight shift, his hips have already started to rotate and are halfway through their rotation at this moment.
Now, I have watched other pros and the timing is different from each which is interesting in how each generates or initiates their kinetic chain. I used Eagle because he arguably has the most efficient release in the game.

 

[sidewinder22]

From their previous video it sounds like Rodeo is saying the hips should be opened up into the plant. If so, that would look more like the player on the right in SW22's post who has opened up too soon.

Watch HUB's video around the 3:50 mark for the sequence. Hips move laterally into the plant, which is where the one leg drill starts. Then the swing/rotation happens.

What HUB is saying in the earlier part of the video is to move the hips laterally first. You need both the lateral move and the rotational move but the lateral move comes first. Essentially it's making sure you get on the front leg.

The intention is make a faster or longer swing and the hips facilitate the intention.

 

[RoDeO]

The intention is make a faster or longer swing and the hips facilitate the intention.

My hips like to rotate soon and fast but today I worked on keeping my reach back and pull longer through the power pocket and hit two shots 50 feet further than all my other shots today.

 

[sidewinder22]

The hip being straight meaning it has rotated back from the reach back position to a neutral position 90 degrees from the release location. From there it rotates another 30-40 degrees or so at the moment of release. My main point is that the hips begin rotating from the reach back position and are halfway through their rotation by the time the weight has shifted from rear leg to front leg.

It's rotating/recoiling back to neutral internally as the pressure is leaving the rear foot from shifting everything/center forward.

External hip/femur rotation is what actually rotates the pelvis targetward - pushing the hip/pelvis away from the rear foot. External rotation is secondary to the lateral abduction of the femur or lateral/linear stride. Internal hip/femur/knee rotation actually counter-rotates the pelvis inward toward the rear foot.

KJUSA is trying to make a lateral stride off the rear foot going into the plant. He is not trying to rotate from the rear leg, if he was trying rotate then I don't think he wouldn't make it onto the front leg.

 

[RoDeO]

It's rotating/recoiling back to neutral internally as the pressure is leaving the rear foot from shifting everything/center forward.

External hip/femur rotation is what actually rotates the pelvis targetward - pushing the hip/pelvis away from the rear foot. External rotation is secondary to the lateral abduction of the femur or lateral/linear stride. Internal hip/femur/knee rotation actually counter-rotates the pelvis inward toward the rear foot.

KJUSA is trying to make a lateral stride off the rear foot going into the plant. He is not trying to rotate from the rear leg, if he was trying rotate then I don't think he wouldn't make it onto the front leg.

So, if I understand, in simpler terms- the hips are turning as the weight shifts.

 

[sidewinder22]

So, if I understand, in simpler terms- the hips are turning as the weight shifts.

The pelvis is free to rotate as it is deweighting from one side.