Register

  • Discover new ways to elevate your game with the updated DGCourseReview app!
    It's entirely free and enhanced with features shaped by user feedback to ensure your best experience on the course. (App Store or Google Play)

One leg drill, stupid question.

sidewinder22 said:
The pelvis is free to rotate as it is deweighting from one side.

Click to expand...

Free to rotate? Sure. But doesn't one have to begin to rotate to begin with? I mean- even if it's free to rotate, one must still choose to start to rotate. So, the question really is- what causes one to rotate? I don't mean to over think things. If one wants to rotate their hips they just do. They don't think what has to happen for them to rotate. I just think it's most important that hip rotation begins before torso rotation and that hip rotation is initiated and begins before weight shift.
 
RoDeO said:
Free to rotate? Sure. But doesn't one have to begin to rotate to begin with? I mean- even if it's free to rotate, one must still choose to start to rotate. So, the question really is- what causes one to rotate? I don't mean to over think things. If one wants to rotate their hips they just do. They don't think what has to happen for them to rotate. I just think it's most important that hip rotation begins before torso rotation and that hip rotation is initiated and begins before weight shift.
Click to expand...

It sounds like you are still focused on rotation as the driving force like in the 320 foot barrier thread, and here it is at the expense of timing relative to the weight shift. Again, rotation is an effect. When you are seeing the initial rotation of the hips, it is an effect of the lateral movement due to anatomy. The focus at that point is not on rotation; it is on the lateral move, the shift to the front leg. Once on the front leg, there is another rotation, but don't focus on trying to rotate; focus on moving the front hip back. This will result in a more powerful rotation than trying to actively spin around.

If you are too focused on rotation, you end up doing things like spinning out, crashing over the top, etc.

Yes, power comes from rotation, but rotation comes from shifts in the right sequence. So if you shift in the right sequence, you will naturally rotate at the right time. If you focus on rotation, the timing is more difficult as it is not as natural. An example of this is walking/running: your hips rotate when you walk/run, but you are not focused on hip rotation while walking or running. The rotation happens naturally as a result of the straight-line movements of the legs.

The shift-focused method: shift onto front leg, then shift the front hip back (rotation happens naturally, on time)

The rotation-focused method: what keeps the timing correct? Seems like a guessing game with more probability of error: "okay, start rotating before the weight shift, but only about halfway...okay now you finished the weight shift, quick, finish rotating!"

When throwing a ball, what is a more powerful throw: one where you step into it, or one where you throw off the back foot? Actively initiating rotation before the weight shift is like throwing a ball off the back foot. If power comes from the ground up, why would you release some of that power early through active hip rotation before establishing ground position?

Or another illustration: the den-den daiko, or pellet drum. If you rotate before shifting onto the front leg, it is like changing handles on the drum mid-rotation.

 
SaROCaM said:
It sounds like you are still focused on rotation as the driving force like in the 320 foot barrier thread, and here it is at the expense of timing relative to the weight shift. Again, rotation is an effect. When you are seeing the initial rotation of the hips, it is an effect of the lateral movement due to anatomy. The focus at that point is not on rotation; it is on the lateral move, the shift to the front leg. Once on the front leg, there is another rotation, but don't focus on trying to rotate; focus on moving the front hip back. This will result in a more powerful rotation than trying to actively spin around.

If you are too focused on rotation, you end up doing things like spinning out, crashing over the top, etc.

Yes, power comes from rotation, but rotation comes from shifts in the right sequence. So if you shift in the right sequence, you will naturally rotate at the right time. If you focus on rotation, the timing is more difficult as it is not as natural. An example of this is walking/running: your hips rotate when you walk/run, but you are not focused on hip rotation while walking or running. The rotation happens naturally as a result of the straight-line movements of the legs.

The shift-focused method: shift onto front leg, then shift the front hip back (rotation happens naturally, on time)

The rotation-focused method: what keeps the timing correct? Seems like a guessing game with more probability of error: "okay, start rotating before the weight shift, but only about halfway...okay now you finished the weight shift, quick, finish rotating!"

When throwing a ball, what is a more powerful throw: one where you step into it, or one where you throw off the back foot? Actively initiating rotation before the weight shift is like throwing a ball off the back foot. If power comes from the ground up, why would you release some of that power early through active hip rotation before establishing ground position?

Or another illustration: the den-den daiko, or pellet drum. If you rotate before shifting onto the front leg, it is like changing handles on the drum mid-rotation.

Click to expand...
I understand what you are saying. My point is that like with the one leg drill if we are trying or attempting to do the one leg drill where one isn't shifting from the back leg to the brace leg they won't get hip rotation first and the throw will be all arm. Also, if one is waiting until all of their weight has shifted to the front leg before they try to turn their hip it will be all arm.

I guess my point being that the uncoiling of the body into release starts down in the legs and hips and moves upward into release where the shoulders and arms are the last to uncoil. The load up or wind up happens during the x step and reachback. As the brace leg begins forward it triggers the uncoil. You can watch almost all the pros, in super slo-motion, as that brace leg begins to make contact and into the transfer of the weight shift, the hips have already made a substantial turn or rotation. At the point where the weight has all shifted, the hips are already halfway done unveiling. Look at the slo-mo of Calvin Heimberg-

https://youtu.be/HK4M-_ZPV6M

If you watch very carefully you will see his knee dip and turn before front foot contact. By the time his weight shifts to the brace leg his hips have already substantially rotated. I used to coach baseball and I taught batters to do a step in their swing. The reason being was to show how the rear leg initiates rotation of the hip right before weight shift. It's the same with a pitcher. As their leg kick comes up and they fall forward the rear leg initiates rotation so that by the time they land and the weight shifts the hips have already substantially rotated. Go out and throw a ball. You will notice how, without even thinking, that after you reach back and begin to step forward your rear leg is turning your hip. If all you did was try to throw off of your front leg without first stepping, or initiating hip rotation first, you get no power to throw.
 
RoDeO said:
I understand what you are saying. My point is that like with the one leg drill if we are trying or attempting to do the one leg drill where one isn't shifting from the back leg to the brace leg they won't get hip rotation first and the throw will be all arm. Also, if one is waiting until all of their weight has shifted to the front leg before they try to turn their hip it will be all arm.
Click to expand...

Disagree with this. I can stand on one leg with my arms hanging at my sides and get hip rotation without any arm action or pushing off a back leg. When standing on one leg, forcefully extend that leg while focusing on driving the hip back. This is what is demonstrated in those Mike Malaska golf videos, combined with creating force from the ground up.

RoDeO said:
I understand what you are saying. My point is that like with the one leg drill if we are trying or attempting to do the one leg drill where one isn't shifting from the back leg to the brace leg they won't get hip rotation first and the throw will be all arm. Also, if one is waiting until all of their weight has shifted to the front leg before they try to turn their hip it will be all arm.

I guess my point being that the uncoiling of the body into release starts down in the legs and hips and moves upward into release where the shoulders and arms are the last to uncoil. The load up or wind up happens during the x step and reachback. As the brace leg begins forward it triggers the uncoil. You can watch almost all the pros, in super slo-motion, as that brace leg begins to make contact and into the transfer of the weight shift, the hips have already made a substantial turn or rotation. At the point where the weight has all shifted, the hips are already halfway done unveiling. Look at the slo-mo of Calvin Heimberg-

https://youtu.be/HK4M-_ZPV6M

If you watch very carefully you will see his knee dip and turn before front foot contact. By the time his weight shifts to the brace leg his hips have already substantially rotated. I used to coach baseball and I taught batters to do a step in their swing. The reason being was to show how the rear leg initiates rotation of the hip right before weight shift. It's the same with a pitcher. As their leg kick comes up and they fall forward the rear leg initiates rotation so that by the time they land and the weight shifts the hips have already substantially rotated. Go out and throw a ball. You will notice how, without even thinking, that after you reach back and begin to step forward your rear leg is turning your hip. If all you did was try to throw off of your front leg without first stepping, or initiating hip rotation first, you get no power to throw.
Click to expand...

As long as the first move is initiating weight shift then the rotation will probably be fine. If rotation is the first move before initiating weight shift then problems are likely to occur.

Swinging/throwing movements start with a weight shift, not rotation, as the first movement.

Starting at 1:35, look how much forward movement there is before rotation:

 
RoDeO said:
Free to rotate? Sure. But doesn't one have to begin to rotate to begin with? I mean- even if it's free to rotate, one must still choose to start to rotate. So, the question really is- what causes one to rotate? I don't mean to over think things. If one wants to rotate their hips they just do. They don't think what has to happen for them to rotate. I just think it's most important that hip rotation begins before torso rotation and that hip rotation is initiated and begins before weight shift.
Click to expand...
Most players don't delay rotation enough or counter-rotate back enough and start rotating forward early.


 
RoDeO said:
I understand what you are saying. My point is that like with the one leg drill if we are trying or attempting to do the one leg drill where one isn't shifting from the back leg to the brace leg they won't get hip rotation first and the throw will be all arm. Also, if one is waiting until all of their weight has shifted to the front leg before they try to turn their hip it will be all arm.

I guess my point being that the uncoiling of the body into release starts down in the legs and hips and moves upward into release where the shoulders and arms are the last to uncoil. The load up or wind up happens during the x step and reachback. As the brace leg begins forward it triggers the uncoil. You can watch almost all the pros, in super slo-motion, as that brace leg begins to make contact and into the transfer of the weight shift, the hips have already made a substantial turn or rotation. At the point where the weight has all shifted, the hips are already halfway done unveiling. Look at the slo-mo of Calvin Heimberg-

https://youtu.be/HK4M-_ZPV6M

If you watch very carefully you will see his knee dip and turn before front foot contact. By the time his weight shifts to the brace leg his hips have already substantially rotated. I used to coach baseball and I taught batters to do a step in their swing. The reason being was to show how the rear leg initiates rotation of the hip right before weight shift. It's the same with a pitcher. As their leg kick comes up and they fall forward the rear leg initiates rotation so that by the time they land and the weight shifts the hips have already substantially rotated. Go out and throw a ball. You will notice how, without even thinking, that after you reach back and begin to step forward your rear leg is turning your hip. If all you did was try to throw off of your front leg without first stepping, or initiating hip rotation first, you get no power to throw.
Click to expand...

Zero arm or rear leg drive here. Your hip/pelvis will rotate in a one leg squat and pump your swing.
 
SaROCaM said:
Disagree with this. I can stand on one leg with my arms hanging at my sides and get hip rotation without any arm action or pushing off a back leg. When standing on one leg, forcefully extend that leg while focusing on driving the hip back. This is what is demonstrated in those Mike Malaska golf videos, combined with creating force from the ground up.



As long as the first move is initiating weight shift then the rotation will probably be fine. If rotation is the first move before initiating weight shift then problems are likely to occur.

Swinging/throwing movements start with a weight shift, not rotation, as the first movement.

Starting at 1:35, look how much forward movement there is before rotation:

Click to expand...

We are both agreeing that hip rotation and weight shift are connected. Even amongst the top elite disc golf pros that shift and hip rotation is across a spectrum timing wise. What they do all have in common though is that at the moment of weight shift, where that weight shifts to the front leg, their hips are already in rotation and continue rotating into release.
 
RoDeO said:
We are both agreeing that hip rotation and weight shift are connected. Even amongst the top elite disc golf pros that shift and hip rotation is across a spectrum timing wise. What they do all have in common though is that at the moment of weight shift, where that weight shifts to the front leg, their hips are already in rotation and continue rotating into release.
Click to expand...

We can agree that rotation happens, but I'm not so sure that we agree on what the intent of the first move is. It seems from your previous posts that you are saying the intent of the first move is to initiate rotation with that rotation being the focus from the beginning. What I am saying is that the intent of the first move is to begin the weight shift with the focus on a linear drive, with rotation being incidental to that targetward drive. Rotation is not the focus of the first move.
 
RoDeO said:
I'm not seeing your hips rotate here. Am I missing something?
Click to expand...
At least 90 degrees of hip rotation and 180 shoulder rotation from start to finish.

Top of backswing - butt facing targetward, shoulder turned back behind hip, rear leg turned back.
Hit - butt has turned away from the target, rear foot/knee/hip/shoulder squared up at release.
Finish - butt turned fully away from target belt buckle to target, rear shoe laces facing target, rear shoulder pointed at target, front foot pivot pointed at target.
kw8KNq5.png

7oUfWKw.png

 
RoDeO said:
I'm not seeing your hips rotate here. Am I missing something?
Click to expand...

sidewinder22 said:
At least 90 degrees of hip rotation and 180 shoulder rotation from start to finish.

Top of backswing - butt facing targetward, shoulder turned back behind hip, rear leg turned back.
Hit - butt has turned away from the target, rear foot/knee/hip/shoulder squared up at release.
Finish - butt turned fully away from target belt buckle to target, rear shoe laces facing target, rear shoulder pointed at target, front foot pivot pointed at target.
kw8KNq5.png

7oUfWKw.png

Click to expand...
I don't mean to be critical in what I see but it really appears in the video you are throwing your arm into release and then your hips drag around which tells me it's an all arm drill. It's like one is promoting that the hip turn is a reaction to the arm release. I've watched your one leg drill and in the slow motion part in the beginning, from rear angle, you can see where the rear leg is critical in starting proper hip rotation which gives the right kinetic chain. In that video you can see that as your weight has transitioned to your front leg, the hips have already started to rotate forward while the disc is still back. In the other video of crush the can where your rear leg isn't involved it appears it's your arm the is dragging the hips around. I'm suggesting that it's just not possible to properly initiate hip rotation, at the right time, without the rear leg initiating it. Thus, if you take the critical trigger out, you can't achieve the right kinetic chain. I will bet that in the crush the can drill where the rear leg isn't involved to initiate proper hip rotation you can't drive for distance because it will be all arm.
 
RoDeO said:
I don't mean to be critical in what I see but it really appears in the video you are throwing your arm into release and then your hips drag around which tells me it's an all arm drill. It's like one is promoting that the hip turn is a reaction to the arm release. I've watched your one leg drill and in the slow motion part in the beginning, from rear angle, you can see where the rear leg is critical in starting proper hip rotation which gives the right kinetic chain. In that video you can see that as your weight has transitioned to your front leg, the hips have already started to rotate forward while the disc is still back. In the other video of crush the can where your rear leg isn't involved it appears it's your arm the is dragging the hips around. I'm suggesting that it's just not possible to properly initiate hip rotation, at the right time, without the rear leg initiating it. Thus, if you take the critical trigger out, you can't achieve the right kinetic chain. I will bet that in the crush the can drill where the rear leg isn't involved to initiate proper hip rotation you can't drive for distance because it will be all arm.
Click to expand...
My weight never leaves the front foot in one leg drill, so I don't know what you are talking about with weightshift.

Gravity and front hip extension/squatting swivels the pelvis and swings the shoulder/arm like a trebuchet.
 
sidewinder22 said:
My weight never leaves the front foot in one leg drill, so I don't know what you are talking about with weightshift.

Gravity and front hip extension/squatting swivels the pelvis and swings the shoulder/arm like a trebuchet.
Click to expand...

If that's what you believe. Post a video showing how far you can throw balancing only on your front leg. You can't even touch your rear foot on the ground first.
 
I was getting some pretty consistent 180 feet yesterday with a putter on one leg throws. That doesn't compare to sw22's 340 with a Teebird but as my longest putter is still only 200 feet i'd say I'm close.

The nose down throws went that far effortlessly. I did some with almost straight arm swings and they went just as far. I think because the wrist was flipping. But i quickly lost the feel for that. I thought I was really onto something for a bit but then...

(The reason I threw a few with straight arm swing is because on the course this weekend I ended up stuck in a bush with no way to do a normal swing, and I did a short slow straight arm anny with a lot of wrist, and it ended up going really really far.)
 
NoseDownKing said:
Dude this guy got me throwing from 300' to 480'. I'm pretty sure he knows what he's talking about.

Sent from my SM-G981B using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I know he's smart and his throwing technique is good from his videos. I just think the translation process of how one really throws and how they think one should throw is slightly off. That does make a big difference.
 
RoDeO said:
I know he's smart and his throwing technique is good from his videos. I just think the translation process of how one really throws and how they think one should throw is slightly off. That does make a big difference.
Click to expand...

Back/drive leg is pushing straight toward the target; not initiating rotation, but initiating forward drive and weight shift that will result in rotation. Rotation is an effect.

Front leg is bracing and front hip drives rotation.

One leg drill is for getting the feel of getting on the front leg to rotate. If you want to feel it without the rear leg, then stand on the front leg with back leg off the ground and push forward off a wall with your back arm. This forward drive will get you on your front leg so you can do the one leg drill without using the back leg. Since it is your arm pushing forward, you will be able to see how it is not the rear leg rotating the pelvis since. Rear foot in the one leg drill is just what is needed for balance. Weight should be on the front leg.



 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

D
Collecting weight in the plant heel
Replies
16
Views
2K
CoachChris
C
E
Brace leg foot advice
Replies
1
Views
1K
Brychanus
Brychanus
P
Disc Golf Biomechanics
2
Replies
37
Views
3K
Sheep
Sheep
Brian Weissman
Ongoing Discussion of The Method Docuseries
Replies
5
Views
559
Sheep
Sheep
gammaxgoblin
Wet muddy conditions off front of tee pad
Replies
5
Views
460
Casey 1988
C

Latest posts

Top