One Legging It: Backhand Fix Yo'self

[sidewinder22]

This is funny. I find it pretty hard getting the brace right in disc golf, I have only played a year though and not THAT much.

I'm HCP 10 Golf player though so I would say I'm a pretty decent golfer, which is why I'm confused that I can't incorporate my golf skill into disc golfing.

But sure, there are alot of things to think of to get every throw right and probably just need to focus on one thing at a time.

Assuming your stance is reversed ball golf and disc golf BH, it's a just a one-handed swing with elbow bend.

 

[Havre]

Assuming your stance is reversed ball golf and disc golf BH, it's a just a one-handed swing with elbow bend.

Yep! I'll probably get it soon enough. What makes it even more funny is that I'm a RHBH thrower but I'm playing leftie in Golf (cause it was used to playing leftie in hockey), so it's not even reversed.

Your vids and Mr. Gardener's with the majestic beard are great though.

 

[DiscFifty]

Also Jason isn't even throwing the disc in your screen capture, so it's not full swing momentum.

I don't know who "Jason" is sorry, but if you're referring to my screen capture of the video, if you watch the video his foot STAYS locked and does not rotate at all.

 

[sidewinder22]

I don't know who "Jason" is sorry, but if you're referring to my screen capture of the video, if you watch the video his foot STAYS locked and does not rotate at all.

Jason aka the OP aka HUB aka guy in video and your pic. He is not making a full swing in your screen capture and not creating enough momentum to release the disc or his foot. Real torque on your knee requires two legs in ground contact and/or a shift of weight. You can't really torque your knee in the One Leg drill unless your knee collapses through the release and you wouldn't throw far at all as you fall off balance. Balance is everything on one leg, it is hard to hurt yourself when in balance.

If you watch at the end of the video his foot pivots as more momentum is brought into the swing. If you keep your knee bent then your foot must pivot to release torque and you will have a hard time maintaining balance on one leg. If you extend your knee and rise up on your hip it also releases torque as you start to go up weightless with ground reactive force and easier to maintain to balance as you stand up on one leg in the finish, and foot may still pivot if necessary.

 

[DiscFifty]

Jason aka the OP aka HUB aka guy in video and your pic. He is not making a full swing in your screen capture and not creating enough momentum to release the disc or his foot. Real torque on your knee requires two legs in ground contact and/or a shift of weight. You can't really torque your knee in the One Leg drill unless your knee collapses through the release and you wouldn't throw far at all as you fall off balance. Balance is everything on one leg, it is hard to hurt yourself when in balance.

If you watch at the end of the video his foot pivots as more momentum is brought into the swing. If you keep your knee bent then your foot must pivot to release torque and you will have a hard time maintaining balance on one leg. If you extend your knee and rise up on your hip it also releases torque as you start to go up weightless with ground reactive force and easier to maintain to balance as you stand up on one leg in the finish, and foot may still pivot if necessary.

Thx on the name. That's why I said I didn't agree with the initial part of the video. In the later parts, he rotating fine. But in the initial video and my screen capture, regardless of the throwing momentum, his upper body is in full rotation forward and that knee is locked pointing straight to the left. I don't recommend anyone to duplicate that stance. I learned the 1 leg drill from watching other vids and the plant foot always rotated enough to take stress off the knee. Just looks like asking for trouble...especially for us older guys. lol..

 

[rhatton1]

regardless of the throwing momentum,

But it's not regardless of this.

Stand up and recreate that position and hold it (which is basically all he is doing at the start of the video, there is no full bloodied swing being enacted). There is no torque on the knee. The right buttock around the hip should feel some tension and the inside of the right foot. Nothing on the knee at all.

Have you actually tried this or are just criticizing behind a screen from what you "think" it will feel like?

 

[DiscFifty]

But it's not regardless of this.

Stand up and recreate that position and hold it (which is basically all he is doing at the start of the video, there is no full bloodied swing being enacted). There is no torque on the knee. The right buttock around the hip should feel some tension and the inside of the right foot. Nothing on the knee at all.

Have you actually tried this or are just criticizing behind a screen from what you "think" it will feel like?

Yes, I've tried it. Would never have posted anything slightly negative if I didn't. Now, I'll ask you..and if I'm wrong about this I will gladly retract anything negative I have posted.

So..are you trying to tell me the right foot pointing straight across to "9:00 oclock" and your chest pointing straight out to "12:00 oclock" is not supposed to put any torque or tension on the knee?

 

[slowplastic]

Discfifty, I know what you mean. When I've done the one leg drill incorrectly and subconsciously tried to use my foot/toes to stabilize myself it can feel bad, because my foot fights my body through my leg/knee. If I lift my toes like was suggested everything just spins/pivots through my heel and a straight/extended leg...but if my balance is wrong then everything gets tippy and unbalanced feeling...which I suppose is the point of this drill to isolate.

I agree it feels bad to have the foot at the wrong angle compared to torso. But HUB does pivot through when he does a full swing.

 

[DiscFifty]

Discfifty, I know what you mean. When I've done the one leg drill incorrectly and subconsciously tried to use my foot/toes to stabilize myself it can feel bad, because my foot fights my body through my leg/knee. If I lift my toes like was suggested everything just spins/pivots through my heel and a straight/extended leg...but if my balance is wrong then everything gets tippy and unbalanced feeling...which I suppose is the point of this drill to isolate.

I agree it feels bad to have the foot at the wrong angle compared to torso. But HUB does pivot through when he does a full swing.

Thx, mainly concerned for us older players who may deal with knee issues already. But keep in mind I did say my concern was mainly with the initial part of the video, but after watching it again..there is no right foot rotation AT ALL until about 1:15 of the 1:44 video. And the entire point is the 1 leg drill, but during the 1 leg drill portion of the video there is simply no right foot rotation at all.

Contrast to this video, which I learned the 1 leg drill from:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpp7ZFLHK90

There is foot rotation from the very first demonstration. Granted it's a longer video with more verbiage, but at least he makes a point to rotate the foot from the get go and if you only watch the first couple of minutes, you still learn a good 1 foot drill and don't think you have to plant your foot like glue sideways as your upper body rotates forward through the drill.

 

[slowplastic]

Yeah to be honest I'm not a fan of "showing" a drill without actually doing the drill. By not actually throwing the disc then the foot doesn't release and it isn't a full swing, etc.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

After standing on the plant leg and rotating freely like in a golf swing, if you feel any issues in your knee - don't continue, period. It's not worth doing damage to throw a disc.

That said, I feel very limited torque on my knee because I'm not pushing off the back leg. As soon as there's enough torque to feel, I lightly lift my toes and it releases any pressure effortlessly. The torque I feel is substantially lower than a regular ball golf swing when I'm 1-legging it and nothing that has ever caused any discomfort.

Jump into 2:50

 

[rhatton1]

Contrast to this video, which I learned the 1 leg drill from:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpp7ZFLHK90

Sorry if the earlier post sounded aggressive, reading it back it did sound bad! I think you are taking your own fears and thoughts about your knees and finding a problem where there isn't one though.

The very first practice swing Sidewinder (seabass22) takes right at the start of the video is exactly the same as Jason's. Because there is no momentum through it he isn't pivoting the foot.

The foot pivot is an incidental motion not one to fixate on or you just start spinning out instead of shifting, bracing, throwing, which is the whole point of the drill. It corrects your balance and posture and takes stress off the knee and other joints.

If you do the drill your foot will pivot unless there is something blocking your foot or your balance is totally out of whack at which point you will stumble or step through and it will tell you're not doing the drill correctly.

I have a shockingly bad right knee from years of soccer injuries, no cartilage, ripped ligaments, floating piece of Tibula. I used to get a lot of knee pain from Disc golf, since tidying my form up I can play all day with no issues. There is no stress on the knee unless I slip on a teepad which is why slippy tee pads terrify me, I don't want to do a Lizotte, I'm not going to injure it though from this drill!

 

[zj1002]

I'm sorry but this is just going to lead to people hurting themselves if they don't already have the rest of it down. Why not just have them focus on the upper body while on both legs? To me this puts all the strain on that knee and the focus of it becomes a stalled spin on that knee/leg rather than move the body forward. Most people learning this basic stuff won't have the body awareness to know when its going to hurt them.

Just my thoughts but I get the ideas behind it

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

I'm sorry but this is just going to lead to people hurting themselves if they don't already have the rest of it down. Why not just have them focus on the upper body while on both legs? To me this puts all the strain on that knee and the focus of it becomes a stalled spin on that knee/leg rather than move the body forward. Most people learning this basic stuff won't have the body awareness to know when its going to hurt them.

Just my thoughts but I get the ideas behind it

I've used it very successfully in teaching lessons and had zero injuries or strains. The main thing that I'm trying to avoid is people throwing from both legs which will inevitably have people flat footed and/or leaned back too much and not stacked toes/knee/nose.

I'd also say that it's a tool - one of many - to make physical adjustments and help them stick.

As with all physical activities - it's going to fall on the coach, teacher, student, individual to assess if they're harming themselves. My personal history with teaching has shown me that over gripping the disc (tennis elbow) and poor posture and collapsing frames (ankle pain) has lead people to injury most often.

I certainly believe that there's many ways to get your form fixed, but self-correcting drills like the 1 leg and the feet together drills go a long way very quickly helping.

 

[zj1002]

I've used it very successfully in teaching lessons and had zero injuries or strains. The main thing that I'm trying to avoid is people throwing from both legs which will inevitably have people flat footed and/or leaned back too much and not stacked toes/knee/nose.

I'd also say that it's a tool - one of many - to make physical adjustments and help them stick.

As with all physical activities - it's going to fall on the coach, teacher, student, individual to assess if they're harming themselves. My personal history with teaching has shown me that over gripping the disc (tennis elbow) and poor posture and collapsing frames (ankle pain) has lead people to injury most often.

I certainly believe that there's many ways to get your form fixed, but self-correcting drills like the 1 leg and the feet together drills go a long way very quickly helping.

Isn't just getting in that "athletic stance" on both feet the same though? I teach these same concepts on 2 feet but have them try it flat footed and locked knees vs toes and knees bent. They get it instantly. To each their own

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Isn't just getting in that "athletic stance" on both feet the same though? I teach these same concepts on 2 feet but have them try it flat footed and locked knees vs toes and knees bent. They get it instantly. To each their own

If they're at this stage:

Then it's not an issue I worry about.

When they look like this:

Then I'm trying to set some references for what we're aiming for.

Teaching is much harder than learning yourself, when I give lessons - I'm in a very fluid situation where I'm seeing what's working and what drills are going to have an impact.

 

[sidewinder22]

When I was learning BH back in the DGR era, I fractured my tibia/ankle doing the Right Pec Drill and I know a couple other players that also fractured their tibia doing the same thing. When I came back from that injury 6 months later I had great fear planting on my front foot again. While I was injured and rehabbing I wisely spent most of that time doing biomechanics research into why I fractured it and how to not do that again and what was proper.

The One Leg drill was fundamental in getting my form down without fear of re-injury. I never experienced any pain with the One Leg drill and surprisingly I was throwing almost as far on just one leg vs before on two legs even with a run-up. I really don't think you are likely to hurt yourself doing the One Leg drill, you will just fall over off balance before you are able to reach a torque big enough to do any damage. You are more likely to hurt yourself when you have two feet planted/weighted into the ground as you have another source of energy. There's no forward momentum you have to worry about torquing your leg, it's basically just your normal standing gravity. If you turn your upper body in the One Leg drill, that turn starts from the ground in your foot, so your foot is naturally going to roll or spin with the rest of your body provided you were able to generate enough momentum and transfer it through your body. As that torque that started in the foot transfers up the body, it gives you a weightlessness in the foot or ground reaction force which helps alleviate any torque pressure in the leg and makes it easy to just pivot on it naturally. You are probably more likely to break your wrist from falling than injuring your leg. My friend recently shattered both his ankles completely, and he has been throwing from the One Leg drill exclusively since he got out of the wheel chair about three months ago and amazingly playing a round almost everyday. He experiences more pain just walking down the fairway than throwing in the One Leg drill.

Now once you weight your second foot down into the ground it opens up a whole can of worms of how you are supposed to shift your weight into the front leg because there are many different ways that can happen, and most of them are wrong - if you value your health. Some people may be naturally athletic enough to make the correct move/shift without having to think about anything or they are athletic enough it hasn't hurt them yet, however I was not one of these fortunate people. Now this is where "Understanding Weightshift", "Best Downswing Weightshift", and "The Move" were instrumental in my education of how your weight is supposed to move or shift between your two feet and lead to "Crush the Can" drills which allowed me to plant/shift into the front foot again without fear.

 

[zj1002]

If they're at this stage:

Then it's not an issue I worry about.

When they look like this:

Then I'm trying to set some references for what we're aiming for.

Teaching is much harder than learning yourself, when I give lessons - I'm in a very fluid situation where I'm seeing what's working and what drills are going to have an impact.

I teach lessons too dude. I get it, you aren't the only one around here that does that stuff, you just post about it more. I agree it isn't easy, which is why I focus on the simple concepts regardless of skill level. At the end of the day, retraining mental concepts and letting them go play disc golf is vastly more important to their development than hoping around on one foot which they won't ever do in a round. Again, to each their own because the idea/concept isn't wrong, I just don't think its a safe drill and thats all I should of said haha

 

[sidewinder22]

I just don't think its a safe drill

IMO it's the safest drill.

 

[zj1002]

IMO it's the safest drill.

For someone with knee issues as was already said in this thread? nooooope.