Reachback and turning away timing in the X Step.

[SaROCaM]

I guess I march to the beat of my own drum. It has always led to great results.

Great results...anything you can quantify?

Previously you were judging your throwing results against the average rather than comparing to the best. You were saying that for someone your age to throw 360' after a few months was a great result compared to the average, and that it shouldn't be measured against someone your age who started around the same time and was already throwing over 400' with a max close to 450'.

What you have said on these forums makes me curious as to what your standards are for what constitutes "great results." For example, for skating is it more like "best skater at the local park" or is it "X Games contender?"

I realize that from a certain perspective it is all relative. For example, if someone is throwing 150' and then progresses to 300', that would be great results relative to their own previous performance. But it wouldn't be great in the sense of objectively elite performance. Like, I could go and deadlift 230kg at 90kg bodyweight, and that would be great in the sense that the average lifter is not lifting anywhere near that. But I wouldn't call myself a great deadlifter when that lift is only about 57% of the best deadlift in that weight class.

You say you can show your progress. Is it some quantifiable objective data, like measured throws or an increase in recorded velocity?

 

[autocrosscrx]

The ollie example is classic.

I think the general good skate advice for "how do I ollie 2 feet?" is to work on technique and ollie over small things as you skate and the 2 foot ollies will come pretty naturally.

 

[Jangle Chains]

I guess I march to the beat of my own drum. It has always led to great results.

Beating to one's one drum is great, it's been the seed of a lot of great strides in mankind's journey. But that's not simply what you're doing here. You are forcing your way onto an arena where there is a known body of knowledge of best practices for cultivating a complicated athletic movement, and your way has not proven anything, except that you have an unceasing facility to dissect the wrong information your eyes are seeing and incessantly spewing that drivel on every thread you see fit.

You're like a farmer that wanders onto a spring training field and walks up to a pitching coach working with the pen and says "I can get your boys to throw 10 mph faster and with more accuracy. You guys have been doing it all wrong. What you've been teaching are all myths", and then you can't produce anything, except "I can feel it, there's a well of power there, just keep working harder on it."

Now, in that hypothetical, if that said farmer had a miraculously produced something that led to great results, then--different story-- Cinderella coach. But that's not you. Do you not see the difference?

Aside from some mild schadenfreude, you are producing nothing of value all the while claiming that the tried and true best practices are all myths.

What happened to your own critique and analysis thread you started? It seemed like you were finally open to learn from others, but you've abandoned it already. What's the matter? you can't stand to be taught? You need to be the teacher, even when you don't know the subject matter?

You really can't be that daft that you don't see the fallacy of your ways here, can you?

You need to sh!t or get off the pot. Either produce video proof of your own throwing, not what you think you see in the "pros", that proves that your ways manufacture superior results, or stop this endless charades.

 

[seedlings]

What disc mold and disc weight did you throw your max ~375' before winter?

 

[RoDeO]

Great results...anything you can quantify?

Previously you were judging your throwing results against the average rather than comparing to the best. You were saying that for someone your age to throw 360' after a few months was a great result compared to the average, and that it shouldn't be measured against someone your age who started around the same time and was already throwing over 400' with a max close to 450'.

What you have said on these forums makes me curious as to what your standards are for what constitutes "great results." For example, for skating is it more like "best skater at the local park" or is it "X Games contender?"

I realize that from a certain perspective it is all relative. For example, if someone is throwing 150' and then progresses to 300', that would be great results relative to their own previous performance. But it wouldn't be great in the sense of objectively elite performance. Like, I could go and deadlift 230kg at 90kg bodyweight, and that would be great in the sense that the average lifter is not lifting anywhere near that. But I wouldn't call myself a great deadlifter when that lift is only about 57% of the best deadlift in that weight class.

You say you can show your progress. Is it some quantifiable objective data, like measured throws or an increase in recorded velocity?

Yeah, it seems like the other guy my age who recorded that distance was a downhill shot, but besides, anyone will agree that someone playing less than half a year at that age hitting that distance is anything but average, it's an anomaly.

Great results are what is compared with a perceived "average". To start out around 200 feet and then progress to almost 400 feet within months is thus "great results" when compared to average.

I can show progress in my video I take in my garage during practice. Its far too cold out to actually measure distance until spring. I'm working on getting a radar gun but just from the video I've been taking you can see quite substantial gains.

 

[RoDeO]

The ollie example is classic.

I think the general good skate advice for "how do I ollie 2 feet?" is to work on technique and ollie over small things as you skate and the 2 foot ollies will come pretty naturally.

Totally agree. The harder you work at it the faster it will happen.

 

[RoDeO]

Beating to one's one drum is great, it's been the seed of a lot of great strides in mankind's journey. But that's not simply what you're doing here. You are forcing your way onto an arena where there is a known body of knowledge of best practices for cultivating a complicated athletic movement, and your way has not proven anything, except that you have an unceasing facility to dissect the wrong information your eyes are seeing and incessantly spewing that drivel on every thread you see fit.

You're like a farmer that wanders onto a spring training field and walks up to a pitching coach working with the pen and says "I can get your boys to throw 10 mph faster and with more accuracy. You guys have been doing it all wrong. What you've been teaching are all myths", and then you can't produce anything, except "I can feel it, there's a well of power there, just keep working harder on it."

Now, in that hypothetical, if that said farmer had a miraculously produced something that led to great results, then--different story-- Cinderella coach. But that's not you. Do you not see the difference?

Aside from some mild schadenfreude, you are producing nothing of value all the while claiming that the tried and true best practices are all myths.

What happened to your own critique and analysis thread you started? It seemed like you were finally open to learn from others, but you've abandoned it already. What's the matter? you can't stand to be taught? You need to be the teacher, even when you don't know the subject matter?

You really can't be that daft that you don't see the fallacy of your ways here, can you?

You need to sh!t or get off the pot. Either produce video proof of your own throwing, not what you think you see in the "pros", that proves that your ways manufacture superior results, or stop this endless charades.

We can have a civilized discussion if you want. You sound kind of disrespectful. Until then, Love you too brother.

 

[RoDeO]

What disc mold and disc weight did you throw your max ~375' before winter?

several different discs on different days. I did it with these discs-
Sapphire, gold, 162g
Mamba, champion, 167g
Shryke, pro, 167g
River, gold, 157g
Saint, opto air, 157g

 

[Jangle Chains]

How disrespectful do you think you've been coming in here to this well established community and declaring that what SW and HUB, and others here are teaching is all a myth, and without a shred of evidence?

 

[RowingBoats]

Totally agree. The harder you work at it the faster it will happen.

Being disciplined and methodical about the process is how it happens faster. The ollie example is useful because it illustrates a similarity to the backhand, but there is also a glaring difference. The similarity, to me, is that most average human beings already possess the muscular strength to perform the skill fairly well. What they require is the skill itself, the balance, timing, and experience of popping the board and carrying it up with the lead foot, and doing this in time with jumping off the ground.

The difference, and something I think you should think about a bit, is that the skateboard is a much more humbling mistress than the disc. The skateboard will not let you ollie, at all, without the technique being correct. The disc will leave your hand without technique being correct.

I don't feel the need to expound upon this. If you care to see the point, you will see it.

 

[seedlings]

several different discs on different days. I did it with these discs-
Sapphire, gold, 162g
Mamba, champion, 167g
Shryke, pro, 167g
River, gold, 157g
Saint, opto air, 157g

Nice. I can throw a 164g Pharaoah (Shryke) 375' on the course with 3 step walk up, under 20' ceiling, hitting gaps without even working out my fast twitch muscles, only working on the form elements that you criticize. You and I started at the same time, and are the same age. I didn't skate. I played casual baseball in grade school, and casual softball 15y ago. Used to ball golf casually, occasionally. Basically you maintain a significant advantage in every athletic department. In the spring if you aren't over 475' on a wide open practice course, I'd call that misplaced effort for your entire off season.

 

[autocrosscrx]

Totally agree. The harder you work at it the faster it will happen.

I don't know if it is a language thing or what, but that is totally not the message that you gave.

You give advice that is generally not accepted to be the best path forward. People correct you. Then you say that you agree.

If you can't ollie as high as you can jump (and I just did a 2 foot box jump in my pajamas and house shoes without any warming up or stretching as sedentary 42 year old), you are better served just developing your skate technique instead of just pushing as hard as you can doing ollies over and over.

 

[RoDeO]

How disrespectful do you think you've been coming in here to this well established community and declaring that what SW and HUB, and others here are teaching is all a myth, and without a shred of evidence?

I've actually taken a lot of pointers and advice from those guys. You only see things through your own lens I guess.

 

[RoDeO]

Nice. I can throw a 164g Pharaoah (Shryke) 375' on the course with 3 step walk up, under 20' ceiling, hitting gaps without even working out my fast twitch muscles, only working on the form elements that you criticize. You and I started at the same time, and are the same age. I didn't skate. I played casual baseball in grade school, and casual softball 15y ago. Used to ball golf casually, occasionally. Basically you maintain a significant advantage in every athletic department. In the spring if you aren't over 475' on a wide open practice course, I'd call that misplaced effort for your entire off season.

You are using fast twitch muscles though.

 

[RoDeO]

I don't know if it is a language thing or what, but that is totally not the message that you gave.

You give advice that is generally not accepted to be the best path forward. People correct you. Then you say that you agree.

If you can't ollie as high as you can jump (and I just did a 2 foot box jump in my pajamas and house shoes without any warming up or stretching as sedentary 42 year old), you are better served just developing your skate technique instead of just pushing as hard as you can doing ollies over and over.

Have you ever skated and ollied before?

 

[autocrosscrx]

Have you ever skated and ollied before?

Yeah. Skated basically every nice day for the better part of 2+ decades.

 

[seedlings]

You are using fast twitch muscles though.

You mean your intense 10,000 reps of fast twitch and my one to three rounds a week never throwing hard are equivalent training for fast twitch. Interesting.

 

[RoDeO]

Yeah. Skated basically every nice day for the better part of 2+ decades.

Then you will know that from the time you first started to being able to Ollie decently took a bit of time and then it took a long time after that to be able to Ollie really high. It's not so much that your form got better as much as it was being able to do it faster and higher with greater effort.

 

[RoDeO]

You mean your intense 10,000 reps of fast twitch and my one to three rounds a week never throwing hard are equivalent training for fast twitch. Interesting.

It wouldn't surprise me if by spring I've caught up to you. BTW, do you throw with your dominant arm or not?

 

[autocrosscrx]

Then you will know that from the time you first started to being able to Ollie decently took a bit of time and then it took a long time after that to be able to Ollie really high. It's not so much that your form got better as much as it was being able to do it faster and higher with greater effort.

I'm glad that I'm not married to you.