RHBH 300 Ft Max

[sidewinder22]

It seems harder to keep from spinning over the front leg a little more with a run up when doing this even though I'm focusing on shifting from behind. Should the right foot be further out the more momentum I'm planting with? Standstill->one step->x step.

Northward so it's the same dynamic balance to the increased momentum.

 

[DWhitt]

I was trying to get started on learning off-arm mechanics and it messed me up a bit. I was having to reestablish my form in yesterday's session. I think I'll wait on the off-arm until I can get this left leg/foot to stop being so clunky and heavy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mr8z91Z3wTY

I was thinking it might move a bit better if I keep trying to add in more vertical motion. Will the right leg extension automatically drop the left hip and pull that leg in and under? If so, how do the big throwers with more horizontal power accomplish that?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWr1bI-VMKI

 

[sidewinder22]

Your rear leg is still pushing your upper body over top your lower body, instead of shifting lower body underneath upper body.

I would focus on this move.. tucking the rear elbow to hip while rear foot rolls inward and knee bends.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mpp7ZFLHK90#t=9m40s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxnhM5amro0#t=1m14s

 

[DWhitt]

I went to the field yesterday after a long vacation. I threw a good number of drives 400+ with a new record long of 436'.
https://youtu.be/ARGbT-DK1FQ
https://youtu.be/RoRfcHRNkFs
https://youtu.be/uheixuPh_8o
https://youtu.be/ZTKxulEYhqE
The form looks better, but I'm still lacking full weight shift. I haven't been working on the off arm at all, but it's naturally tucking in a little more. Hoping to get that practiced and working for me in April.

I've been studying these slow motions next to mine: https://youtu.be/psZKJcsgMY0.
I noticed that we all come into the right toe hit with the left leg bent and pointed fairly far backwards, but everyone other than James Conrad swings his left knee inside before the right heel plants and the hips rotate. He seems to just plant his legs so far apart that the knee is forced inside before the plant.

I am going to play around with different (safe) methods of getting that knee in to see if that's something that I could/should apply.
Any ideas/existing drills for this? I'm sure I'm reinventing the wheel every time I make a personal "discovery."

 

[DWhitt]

Additionally, the left knee swing seems to coincide with the off-arm movement. It certainly is happening before the right heel plant which then causes the hip rotation and the left leg to collect underneath.

 

[sidewinder22]

1. Your left arm is out of control going way behind your back in the backswing so you end up reaching back too far around yourself. I would either keep the elbow tighter to the hip or reach in front of your body like PP/Avery.

2. Your rear foot needs to roll in and push away from target to angle the shin/knee targetward. The knee only swings in when there is no weight pressure left on it, and it follows the pelvis.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxnhM5amro0#t=1m14s

 

[DWhitt]

Interesting... so this video says internally rotating the femur won't cause the hips to open, and that only external rotation moves the pelvis.
So I should try actively to abduct the left leg to clear the weight off of it before the plant? If I happen to internally rotate, it won't open the hips early. In fact, it could help to close them more?

 

[DWhitt]

I tried using significantly more abduction. This forced me to plant further in front of my body to keep balance. That got me on my left toe more than heel, which seems positive.
However, my left leg still refused to bend and collect underneath. In fact, I think pushing with it made it stiffer. I should have predicted that.

My next step is to try rotating my left leg forcefully when my right toe has landed. When I gave this a half-hearted try in the past, I was accidentally cancelling out my power from gravity. I'm going to focus on moving all these forces at the right time and in the correct directions to create a powerful can crush.

 

[sidewinder22]

I don't try to rotate my rear leg, it only rotates following the pelvis. The leg rotation is an effect, not a force/cause.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=139973

 

[DWhitt]

Do you rotate your pelvis to help you crush the can or afterwards?

 

[Brychanus]

I think SW might agree that it's probably better to think of it as one smooth motion. Your pelvis is in constant motion in the swing as a result of your posture and the way the legs interact with the ground. I suggest watching the wireframes of golfers in this thread and basically commit them to memory:

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133543

If you're talking about anything remotely like this motion, please don't do it:
https://youtu.be/cv_MxYTAABc?t=185

Or this:
https://youtu.be/Ie8ZtrwJxWM?t=687

Or this:
https://youtu.be/EgVy9kCU44A?t=124

Each of those is associated with less power and consistency and/or injury. No top thrower uses them.

 

[sidewinder22]

Do you rotate your pelvis to help you crush the can or afterwards?

 

[DWhitt]

I think SW might agree that it's probably better to think of it as one smooth motion. Your pelvis is in constant motion in the swing as a result of your posture and the way the legs interact with the ground.

If you're talking about anything remotely like this motion, please don't do it:
https://youtu.be/cv_MxYTAABc?t=185

Each of those is associated with less power and consistency and/or injury. No top thrower uses them.

Ok, looks like I'm getting off-base again by trying to manipulate body position. What is it I'm doing or not doing that is making my leg bow out until the throw while every pro's is coming in? I did a comparison and noted Seasbas's comment to "squeeze between the knees", but I don't quite understand that directive. https://ibb.co/DkB65Lm

(See comparisons below)
Backswing
Me - https://ibb.co/bKfFPQ0
GG - https://ibb.co/d0bK79b
PM - https://ibb.co/2YTD8mp
CH - https://ibb.co/Vqdspht

Transition
Me - https://ibb.co/swNdKsN
GG - https://ibb.co/xFH1bwP
PM - https://ibb.co/5K20Ffd
CH - https://ibb.co/dkHMNrw

Throw
Me - https://ibb.co/sJ36nzr
GG - https://ibb.co/5vF2s0c
PM - https://ibb.co/vskxh6h
CH - https://ibb.co/FHB2hY4

I can see my left foot is turned backwards more than everyone else's from Step 1, but just changing that wouldn't fix step 2 or 3 would it?

 

[DWhitt]

Attempting to link images better

Backswing

Transition

Throw

 

[DWhitt]

However, my stance looks very similar to Anthony Barela's in Step 1, but is drastically different in Step 2. Step 2 really seems to be keeping me in horse territory.

Me v AB
Step 1

Step 2

Step 3

 

[Brychanus]

This is one of my favorite mechanics topics in DG since I've had so much trouble with it myself, and I don't think it's a coincidence that the Drive Leg thread is so long and there is a big confusion about "back leg" or "front leg" throwing etc. I lurk a lot of form threads here, and it's fascinating that you get a lot of pretty young, pretty athletic people with good levers that get trapped in the 450-500' range. One of the things that they usually have in common is that their body isn't moving in a way that lets them get that minimum-effort, maximal leverage move off the drive leg. They have issues with (e.g.) horse stance or posture or are not "riding the bull." They aren't doing what Jan Zelezny learned to do with the javelin:

I do think it's mechanically fair to say that the action is the same (or close enough) to a standstill that it makes sense to learn it well there. I never regret the time I spend working on standstills and usually find that the x-step gets better afterward - the same is not usually the case working in the other direction. I do also think that (re)learning the x-step is hard because you need to figure out what works best for your body in transition and with more momentum after that.

Focusing on the rear foot "rolling in" in swings or Hershyzer drill and how it naturally works in Swivel stairs all helped me. Like pretty much every drill, I even was doing Swivel stairs wrong at first due to my posture so that can be worth posting too.

You were also still extending and tipping off the rear leg in the most recent vids rather than shifting and dropping. What Paige is doing here is exactly what I learned in standstills and focus on finding in the x-step:

These imgs helped me understand it better thru x-step. Try to see through the details and how it's basically the same thing as the golf wireframe up there.
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showpost.php?p=3859653&postcount=70



*Edit: Also, I'd avoid AB. He throws with a lot of s-curve in his spine and knee snap as SW pointed out elsewhere (both are bad news for the body in the long run in other sports). Barela has nevertheless loaded better into the rear side like riding the bull or Double Dragon without being horsestanced and has a better tilted axis than you, which is why your upper bodies look so different. His front hip is clearing and leading the swing. Yours is kinda bracing you harshly against the forward momentum of your body because you tipped into the plant rather than shifted w/ a tilted axis.

 

[DWhitt]

Is this not forcibly rotating the hips? This is what I mean when I was saying that.
It seems like an active movement that rotates the hips.
https://youtu.be/eZDAH_89dwo?t=392

I was asking before if I should use this kind of hip rotation to assist in crushing the can.

 

[sidewinder22]

I don't think that was done correctly.

Your rear foot is stuck on ground late and pushing/tipping your upper body over instead of shifting your lower body forward ahead/underneath upper body to catch in dynamic balance going into the plant/can crush.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJ4pxndBpJ4#t=2m20s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxnhM5amro0#t=1m14s

 

[Brychanus]

Is this not forcibly rotating the hips? This is what I mean when I was saying that.
It seems like an active movement that rotates the hips.
https://youtu.be/eZDAH_89dwo?t=392

I was asking before if I should use this kind of hip rotation to assist in crushing the can.

Agree w/ SW that that was incorrect, and the solution is instructive.

There, I was still shifting my weight back and forth as a unit and dropping rather than "torquing" the hips (which we want to avoid per above), but (SW please confirm):

(1) it is on the wrong axis - it was like I was holding a pool cue between my legs parallel rather than perpendicular to the floor and

(2) I had to go back and learn the correct counterrotation of the upper body before the shift more like a golf or baseball swing with SW22/seabas Ride the Bull.

In hindsight I still like the learning aid of the hardwood floor and getting dynamic against the ground, but this is on my list of things to remove/redo.

 

[sidewinder22]

Agree w/ SW that that was incorrect, and the solution is instructive.

There, I was still shifting my weight back and forth as a unit and dropping rather than "torquing" the hips (which we want to avoid per above), but (SW please confirm):

(1) it is on the wrong axis - it was like I was holding a pool cue between my legs parallel rather than perpendicular to the floor and

(2) I had to go back and learn the correct counterrotation of the upper body before the shift more like a golf or baseball swing with SW22/seabas Ride the Bull.

In hindsight I still like the learning aid of the hardwood floor and getting dynamic against the ground, but this is on my list of things to remove/redo.

Looks like you were shifting from in front, instead of from behind.