SuperWookie Form Thread

[SuperWookie]

So I want to kind of take things one step at a time moving forward, as I am getting really frustrated and not really understanding HOW to do certain things properly. I know WHAT I need to do. That's not usually the issue. All the videos and info is already out there. But I am not finding HOW to do them. So instead of just jumping around from different aspect to to different aspect, and not building a solid foundation first, I want to just focus on certain things, starting at the beginning of the swing, then working my way through to the end.

But one thing I would love to know right away is are there any drills or throwing exercises I can do to get this feeling of a Wide Upper Arm ingrained into my body? It is proving extremely awkward, unnatural, and very elusive. It's literally the opposite of a great golf swing, and after playing golf and other club/racquet sports for so long, I'm just having a HELL of a time figuring out how to feel the wide upper arm and practice it over and over so that it becomes second nature. No matter how hard I try when I'm throwing, it doesn't work. Sure, it's become slightly better than when I first started, but it's still really bad. So any and all videos and instructional ideas on HOW to throw or do drills to keep a wide upper arm would be much appreciated.

And then after I work on that and can see noticeable results, I'll come back to this thread and start from the beginning of the throw and work my way through.

Thanks everyone

 

[sidewinder22]

How would you swing the club thru the ball one handed?
1. You would have to close up your stance to get your body out of the way of the backswing.
2. You would have to let the arm go.

 

[SuperWookie]

How would you swing the club thru the ball one handed?
1. You would have to close up your stance to get your body out of the way of the backswing.
2. You would have to let the arm go.

I would do it like this, since I was already asked to do this by SlowPlastic https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YJojTXtlxugt8zYGgdXaJYNiyMNpMat5/view?usp=sharing But yes, a slightly closed stance and then just swing. So are you suggesting I take my softball bat to the field with me and swing it and throw it a TON to get the "correct" feel down? I could also bring golf clubs as well if that would help? And is that all you would suggest as far as drills and throwing practice to get the feel of the upper arm on a wider angle away from the body?

Thanks

 

[Mocheez]

Try to feel the centrifugal force in your elbow as you swing forward. Just like a ball on a string, the force will increase as your elbow gets further away from your body.

 

[SuperWookie]

Try to feel the centrifugal force in your elbow as you swing forward. Just like a ball on a string, the force will increase as your elbow gets further away from your body.

Yeah, I know what it's supposed to feel like. I can already feel it from all the other club or racquet sports I play or played. When I watch all the pros throw, I already know what it feels like in my head to do it, I just can't do it. And no matter how hard I try when field throwing, I can't do it. I have too many years of golf, tennis, baseball and other sports ingrained in my body and it's just about impossible for me to keep my elbow out in front the whole time and keep the upper arm wide. That's not the problem.

It's that I just can't feel it in the Disc Golf swing and I need drills and practice ideas on how I can exaggerate the feeling of elbow forward, keeping a wide arm angle and getting this easy whip like feeling of the centrifugal force coming around.

:wall:

 

[deyo7]

Try the pump.

Pump disc forward where you can pretend your arm is the object you're throwing, giving it its own inertia. As your arm/object SWINGS (dont move it with your muscles-let it go) back in the backswing RESIST the collapse of the upper arm angle; i.e., no hug yourself. Boom - Feel the force.

 

[sidewinder22]

I would do it like this, since I was already asked to do this by SlowPlastic https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YJojTXtlxugt8zYGgdXaJYNiyMNpMat5/view?usp=sharing But yes, a slightly closed stance and then just swing. So are you suggesting I take my softball bat to the field with me and swing it and throw it a TON to get the "correct" feel down? I could also bring golf clubs as well if that would help? And is that all you would suggest as far as drills and throwing practice to get the feel of the upper arm on a wider angle away from the body?

Thanks

Slightly closed stance, but also Turn further back and toss the bat. Turning further back will help start with a wide arm, like in door frame drills, the more your body turns back the wider your arm gets as it maintains position/the disc stays still/remains in place as you stride forward around the disc/door frame.

To toss the bat to centerfield effortlessly you have to let your arm release wide away from you. Don't try to spin the bat or worry about spin. Just throw/leverage the end/weight of the bat to the target, it will spin. Pretty sure you are going to hook that release.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5xfv9jPqZs#8m26s

 

[SuperWookie]

Slightly closed stance, but also Turn further back and toss the bat. Turning further back will help start with a wide arm, like in door frame drills, the more your body turns back the wider your arm gets as it maintains position/the disc stays still/remains in place as you stride forward around the disc/door frame.

To toss the bat to centerfield effortlessly you have to let your arm release wide away from you. Don't try to spin the bat or worry about spin. Just throw/leverage the end/weight of the bat to the target, it will spin. Pretty sure you are going to hook that release.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5xfv9jPqZs#8m26s

Try the pump.

Pump disc forward where you can pretend your arm is the object you're throwing, giving it its own inertia. As your arm/object SWINGS (dont move it with your muscles-let it go) back in the backswing RESIST the collapse of the upper arm angle; i.e., no hug yourself. Boom - Feel the force.

Got it! Going to try this as soon as I can get out to the field. It's SOPPING wet where I live. It has been most of the spring and summer so far, is this week, and is forecasted to continue for at least another few days. But I'll get out there are work on this stuff and report back in a few days or weeks when I start to actually feel how the arm should be and get the bat going out to center-field with little effort. Thanks for the advice guys, I got some work to do

 

[deyo7]

Try the pump.

Pump disc forward where you can pretend your arm is the object you're throwing, giving it its own inertia. As your arm/object SWINGS (dont move it with your muscles-let it go) back in the backswing RESIST the collapse of the upper arm angle; i.e., no hug yourself. Boom - Feel the force.

Got it! Going to try this as soon as I can get out to the field. It's SOPPING wet where I live. It has been most of the spring and summer so far, is this week, and is forecasted to continue for at least another few days. But I'll get out there are work on this stuff and report back in a few days or weeks when I start to actually feel how the arm should be and get the bat going out to center-field with little effort. Thanks for the advice guys, I got some work to do

This is great visual image for what I mean:

Barry Shultz - Multi World and USDGC Champ:


Not exactly sure why but If I don't swing my arm up high and out wide like Barry above, I don't get the boom. If I focus on keeping upper angle wide and not collapsing things are decent.

Gif is taken from this thread: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133733

 

[SuperWookie]

So the results last night were some of the best I've had. Last time I was going out was in the 260-290 range with a few over 300'. Last night I did about 5 mins or more of hammer and softball swings. And although it didn't help me throw the disc like that per say, it did remind me of getting my tempo/timing/sequence down much better like when I play golf. Letting gravity do some of the work and just letting the hit happen with power only needed in a quick small burst right near the hit.

Also was turning back behind the throw much better and transitioning much better. Worked real hard to make sure every throw my rear foot was angled about 120* so I could more easily get behind the shot when my weight started to transition to my plant leg.

Also, near the end, I was getting much better at firing INTO my plant leg and not walking throw at all, or until after the hit. I throw in a football field that has janky ground and is all pot holed and uneven. A recipe for a sprained ankle. So I usually don't feel comfortable planting posted up like I would in golf. But near the end, I said f*ck it and just hoped I wouldn't roll my ankle. And almost all those throws were so much better! My rear leg was swinging behind me as counter weight and most of the throws all went 290-310' consistently and much closer to my intended landing zone! There were even 3-5 discs sometimes in a 10' or smaller radius all near the middle of the field where I was aiming or near the goal post going the other way! Best throwing I've had to date. It wasn't necessarily adding distance, just making the throws much more consistent.

And then on a few throws where everything must have lined up well, I got a few 350' finally with my Maul twice and a few as well with my Axiom Insanity!!! Although, I did throw some more in that range, but don't count them as I was yanking them pretty far right. Not sure why, but last night I yanked about 10 shots or so pretty bad right and most of them went really far (for me). So that was odd.

And yet having thrown the best and farthest I have to date... it didn't feel all that amazing. Going from 280 to 350 feels like it just went another 5-10'. NOT a huge jump like I've been expecting. So good and bad. Happy I finally got some discs out to 320-350, but not happy how hard it is still to get there. And most importantly and seemingly going to be my nemesis is throwing nose up!

I literally can not find any grip or any way to throw nose down, but with a slightly lower to higher swing path. I even have found a new way to grip that results in better throws, but still not nose down. I know for a fact I would be throwing every disc 50+' farther if I could throw nose down with a big follow thru. Yet can't do it :wall:

And I can't figure out how to do 2 other things at all either! EVERY single time I throw well, the disc goes from around hip/chest level in the turn back, to up around my shoulder height. It rides up my arm so bad as you can see from the back view. But... that is the ONLY way I can feel any type of loose arm type feeling and just let my body do most of the work. I'm not even trying to do that. But I know it's because of this: the disc swings back while I'm still standing up tall, then as I drive forward with my hips and lower body, my body is lowering into the hit, and the arm is loose and obviously goes up in elevation as the rest of my body goes lower in elevation. So I have NO idea how to correct this AND keep the loose feeling in my arm. I noticed I was doing better with holding on later and keeping my arm wider and the elbow out farther. Still not great, but progress. And If I try to keep it flat and lower the whole time, the throws instantly turn to cr*p. And then the follow thru is still just about impossible to get a full release. If I do the 1 leg hammer drill or just swing the hammer around and then let go, the follow thru is good/better. But put the disc in my hand and say throw this pretty far and straight, and it feels like there is NO WAY I can follow thru way around and shoulder height like I see everyone doing. It's so weird.

Anyways, here's the videos of last night. As always, detailed help is much appreciated everyone. Thanks

Video password is: discgolf
https://vimeo.com/343778186
https://vimeo.com/343778256
https://vimeo.com/343778310

 

[sidewinder22]

 

[slowplastic]

A lot of your body positioning looks way cleaner/better. Your right arm/shoulder is the next thing I'd focus on I think.

Right from the backswing, your right shoulder/upper arm collapses to your pec. Your follow through also shows a weird angle as a result.

Without a disc in hand, step up to a tree or wall or something in front of your front foot. As if it were a batting tee if you were going to swing one handed RHBH. Probably roughly 1.5' in front of you and 1-1.5' to your right...so on a diagonal to your right like 2' away. With your palm down and hand open, try to backhand karate chop this object. Like don't actually do it and hit the thing...but trace your path into it. Feel where it feels strong to be able to bust through this object.

Now keep doing this and backswing farther, while getting back to the same spot. You should hopefully be keeping a wider arm angle to stay feeling strong into the object. Then put a disc in your hand and keep trying this feeling.

 

[SuperWookie]

So after watching this video, I understand some of what you're saying and then a lot of what you are actually doing in this video is not what you do personally in any of your throws, nor do the pros. Unless.... you/they are trying to throw an extreme hyzer. It looks more like a golf swing, not a disc golf throw. So now I'm totally confused.

You mention quite a few times in not only this video, but others, that the swing is not a linear or flat arc around your body. Yet if you just look at the gif and photos below, you and Simon are very much almost completely flat around your body throwing. You talk about the throw is much more pendulum and on a tilted axis. But when I watch your throws or other pros, that's not true at all. If you/they are trying to throw a flat or anhyzer shot, you/they are very much almost on a completely flat swing plane around the body, not this 45* or more tilted axis swing plane you talk about and show in your videos. You and others have an almost flat arc or swing plane all the way around.

And you also talk about this super high up and around finish in this new video, which once again, happens in the drills with the hammer as well. Or when your just swinging around, showing how loose and easy the swing should be. But as soon as you throw it, that is not what is happening. It's much more around your body/shoulders and much flatter. It's not 100% on a flat plane, but it's very close. Same with a lot of pros.

I'm thinking that the more your arm finishes high and up around you, the more of a hyzer you're going to throw, and the more you throw around your body, the flatter or more anhyzer you will throw. Correct? So I'm confused why you are always doing drills with an extreme pendulum/super tilted swing plane, and then saying we should be finishing up high and around when that is not how you want to throw in real life, unless you want to throw a HUGE hyzer bomb type shot.

It's clear as day from the images below. You and Simon are swinging your arm and the disc almost completely flat around your body, not this tilted up and down pendulum you speak of often and are always showing in your videos. And I could find tons of other photos of pros showing the same thing, but this one gif should show you what I'm referring too. I'm just trying to understand why you talk about another one way in the videos, yet when you throw it, or pros throw it, you/they are very much throwing almost on a completely flat swing path. Unless they want to throw a pretty extreme hyzer. Can you explain all of this please. It's very very confusing and not matching up to reality. I'm probably completely misunderstanding what point you are trying to make in this new video. Thanks

 

[SuperWookie]

A lot of your body positioning looks way cleaner/better. Your right arm/shoulder is the next thing I'd focus on I think.

Right from the backswing, your right shoulder/upper arm collapses to your pec. Your follow through also shows a weird angle as a result.

Without a disc in hand, step up to a tree or wall or something in front of your front foot. As if it were a batting tee if you were going to swing one handed RHBH. Probably roughly 1.5' in front of you and 1-1.5' to your right...so on a diagonal to your right like 2' away. With your palm down and hand open, try to backhand karate chop this object. Like don't actually do it and hit the thing...but trace your path into it. Feel where it feels strong to be able to bust through this object.

Now keep doing this and backswing farther, while getting back to the same spot. You should hopefully be keeping a wider arm angle to stay feeling strong into the object. Then put a disc in your hand and keep trying this feeling.

Thanks. It does feel like certain parts of my body and movement are feeling better and look better on video. My balance is getting a lot better and the turn back is much better.

So my field work today was a mess and all it accomplished was to wear out my shoulder I really tried to work on this today. Keeping my turn back a little lower and really trying to turn from the inside and hit out to this imaginary point like you speak of above. But it was for naught. It just wasn't working today with all these new ideas in my head and I just tired myself out within 30-45 mins. I did some pretty good one leg throws out to 250-280'. But within a few there and back throws with my 8 discs, the form just went to cr*p.

Big huge hyzer bombs with no distance when trying to follow thru farther and a little higher.

Weak medium to low hyzers when trying to keep the upper arm way out away from me the entire throw. Even tryin to allow the elbow to just hinge in.

And then once again and I had a lot of rounding shots that were yanked badly.

The only good throws I had was when I went back to what was working a few days ago.

But I'm really confused what you are referring to with my upper arm collapsing. It looks like in these photos, my upper arm is much more away from my chest and is in fact at least 90* the entire way or larger. My turnback really has the disc out and away, then each frame my upper arm is away from my chest, not collapsed. I'm really confused here.

I'm going to try and work on these thing your mentioned above as it seems like it may make sense the more I try it. But today I was just working on a few things and almost none of worked. It was one of my worst times I've ever had it and it's days like this that really make me want to quite trying as it seems impossible to learn. But of course I'll be back for more punishment in a few days to a week, haha.

Thanks

 

[RandyC]

I think you are mixing horizontal flat swing plane and a flat shot. Tilted axis is athletic stance, hockey, golf, baseball etc. Your spine would be like this \ and your are not exactly turning but rotating inside your frame. Flat horizontal swing plane has your spine straight up | and you are essentially just turning back and forth and swinging your arms around as demonstrated in the beginning of the video.

 

[slowplastic]

For what SW is talking about, I'm just realizing this stuff too and experimenting with it.

But for starters, think of a baseball bat swing. Say you hit a belt high pitch. You don't swing the bat belt high the whole time even though that's a natural height...the bat comes down from the shoulders, hits the ball belt high, and finishes arcing up and around the shoulders.

Same thing in the disc golf throw. If you look at your sequence of images, SW's right/throwing elbow follows that purple line quite well along the forward swing. Then look at where it is in the follow through, it's arced up and around his body...not just continuing on the same "flat" plane the whole time. You can also see the shoulder tilt and how they are angled relative to the arm throughout the shot.

The red line is meant to show the path of the elbow from release to this point in follow through....sorry it's a little sloppy from this perspective. Maybe the arc should have been a little more U shaped rather than the upside down arc. Point is that the arc goes upward to here.

 

[sidewinder22]

Watch how Seppo rotates the arm/disc in a pendulum back and forth through the transition and then again in follow through so there's a huge twirl happening all way start to finish.

 

[SuperWookie]

I think you are mixing horizontal flat swing plane and a flat shot. Tilted axis is athletic stance, hockey, golf, baseball etc. Your spine would be like this \ and your are not exactly turning but rotating inside your frame. Flat horizontal swing plane has your spine straight up | and you are essentially just turning back and forth and swinging your arms around as demonstrated in the beginning of the video.

Hmmm, that gif of Simon and many many others I've seen, not only does the disc get release flat or slight anhyzer, but the body is mostly or fully upright. Look at that gif of Simon, he's just about completely upright or even tilted back right before he throws it. Same with SW in his throw. SW is ever so slightly tilted forward like you say, but not more than 5-10* at the most, but his swing path is mostly flat, or very close. His arm does go up a little in the follow thu, but it's still swinging around mostly on the same swing plane/ he had at the start and during the hit.

But were splitting hairs here. The concept I'm trying to understand still is how and why SW shows a much more tilted swing plane in his videos and during the drills, but then when he throws, it's much more flat and around? I'm trying to understand all of this, so I can learn how to throw better, and right now, I'm not understanding. There is no explanation of why and how this works. I'm just not understanding AT ALL, how someone can have a tilted spine axis, that is tilted over 30-45* with their arm on the same axis, and then throw it flat. It makes absolutely no sense. You would have to have your arm on the same axis you want the disc to fly, correct? You can't bend your wrist UP while you're arm and spine is pointed down.

So in this crude diagram below I drew really quick, the top two images are what you are purporting happens? But in reality, the bottom pictures is what would happen. But I don't see how it's possible? How can you swing your arm tilted, and yet have the disc come out flat if your spine and arm are on a tilted axis the entire time and released with the arm pointing down like the two images on the left show? You would have to contort your wrist into something horrible to get a flat release if your arm path and spine were tilted like this \. Can you guys explain this please as I have no idea how what is going on here. I'm sure I'm not understanding something critical here, but to my eyes, this idea and the reality of what I'm seeing don't match up.

 

[SuperWookie]

Watch how Seppo rotates the arm/disc in a pendulum back and forth through the transition and then again in follow through so there's a huge twirl happening all way start to finish.

I'll have to watch this at home and really listen and pay attention. I guess I'm still to new to all this to even understand what you mean by "rotates the arm/disc in a pendulum back and forth through the transition and then again in follow through so there's a huge twirl happening." I don't know what you mean by either statements about his arm rotates, how it pendulums and how there is a twirl. This is so confusing trying to learn this way I know you are telling me/us exactly what is going on, and that it will work. But I can't follow along without someone showing me what they're talking about. I'm sure if we had a few hours in person, you could show me and explain ALL of this stuff and I'd totally get it. But this is so hard trying to learn this way.

I'll watch the video a few times when I get home and see if I can make any head way understanding what you're trying to say. Thanks

 

[SuperWookie]

A lot of your body positioning looks way cleaner/better. Your right arm/shoulder is the next thing I'd focus on I think.

Right from the backswing, your right shoulder/upper arm collapses to your pec. Your follow through also shows a weird angle as a result.

Without a disc in hand, step up to a tree or wall or something in front of your front foot. As if it were a batting tee if you were going to swing one handed RHBH. Probably roughly 1.5' in front of you and 1-1.5' to your right...so on a diagonal to your right like 2' away. With your palm down and hand open, try to backhand karate chop this object. Like don't actually do it and hit the thing...but trace your path into it. Feel where it feels strong to be able to bust through this object.

Now keep doing this and backswing farther, while getting back to the same spot. You should hopefully be keeping a wider arm angle to stay feeling strong into the object. Then put a disc in your hand and keep trying this feeling.

Can you address/explain what you mean by my arm is collapsing almost immediately? In the photos I posted from my most recent field work, it looks like my upper arm is in fact out away from my chest the entire time. And around 90* or larger. So wouldn't that mean it's not collapsed? It would help a lot if you could explain what you mean and show me some examples please. Thanks so much