Ya, when I had this big hyzer shot through a fairly narrow hole into a field and I thought what a perfect disc the pain would be from that distance, and I started it off on this big hyzer only to have it roll to flat and go straight into the trees and drop OB rather than keeping its line, I had had enough of it after my difficulties with it in any wind. I do have a couple dark blue Opto ones I might try and I now have a Z hornet to try out. I may give the Vector a try as well since I am another huge fan of the Ion and would like to try that out even tho its a totally different disc.