What is the acceptable way to play a shot where the disc rolls or skips up onto the front of a large tree directly between your line and the basket with no footing possible in the 30CM behind the disc?
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Unplayable Lie Rule, please explain
- Thread starter bobmcnelly
- Start date
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
802.03E If a large solid obstacle prevents the player from taking a legal stance behind the marker disc, the player may instead mark the lie by placing a mini marker disc on the playing surface immediately behind that obstacle on the line of play.
Your lie is immediately behind the tree.
(just adding to discussion 
thanks guys) Does that mean then if the tree was dead and not physically possible to be moved is there then an option for relief or say if the tree bordered OB?
thanks guys) Does that mean then if the tree was dead and not physically possible to be moved is there then an option for relief or say if the tree bordered OB?
(just adding to discussion
You get a meter off the OB line, that would have to be a pretty large tree to still not be able to get a stance.
Dead and unable to move plays the same as a live tree.
JamesM
Par Member
Less than 5 meters so no penalty? He moved about 10 ft. away from the edge.
He must take the first lie possible on that line. But as long as it's within 5 meters, there's no penalty.
yeah I guess maybe a brush pile would have been a better example there, say from recent fairway cleaning or something which lined the sides/OB.
Chainsgoching
Birdie Member
- Joined
- Jun 5, 2013
- Messages
- 306
Referring to the ditch with rushing water, lol
To help further clarify, If it's usually played as casual using local course rules, then wouldn't casual relief be in order here? In a tournament situation, the TD could announce this before a round, granting relief without stroking.
Requoting the applicable rule:
"Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, people, or any item or area specifically designated by the Director before the round. To obtain relief, the player must remove the obstacle if it is practical to do so. If it is impractical to move the obstacle, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the target, is on the line of play, and is not more than five meters from the original lie (unless greater casual relief is announced by the Director)."
Yes, the TD can grant additional relief.
"Casual Obstacles to a Stance: A player may obtain relief only from the following obstacles that are on or behind the lie: casual water, loose leaves or debris, broken branches no longer connected to a tree, motor vehicles, harmful insects or animals, players' equipment, people, or any item or area specifically designated by the Director before the round. To obtain relief, the player must remove the obstacle if it is practical to do so. If it is impractical to move the obstacle, the player's lie may be relocated to the nearest lie which is no closer to the target, is on the line of play, and is not more than five meters from the original lie (unless greater casual relief is announced by the Director)."
Yes, the TD can grant additional relief.
Unless designated otherwise (by TD or course rule), ALL water is considered casual. So yes, casual relief is allowed. In fact, that's exactly what Brad is describing. (803.01 B)
jrawk
* Ace Member *
We announce at our events that our pickup-truck-sized thorn-bushes are casual relief up to one meter behind the bush on the line of play. You don't have to throw from inside it, but you must throw above/arround it.
We'd call the same for areas with unstable footing (large jagged rocks, stacked timber, standing mud puddles)
We'd call the same for areas with unstable footing (large jagged rocks, stacked timber, standing mud puddles)
- Joined
- May 6, 2011
- Messages
- 650
should be "attached"
I know this scenario is about a trunk, but to clarify for other scenarios...if a dead branch of any kind is still attached, it doesn't matter whether you are "able" to move it, you're not allowed to move it.
But, how is it "attached" defined, does it matter what its attached to? What if it's attached to a fallen tree? The tree is no longer attached to the ground, so, can you break off any of its dead branches now?
cacriswell2
Par Member
What is the ruling if the disc is on a bank? We have a river that runs through our local course and obviously the water is ob but, the bank is a pretty steep straight down slope about 3 or 4 feet down. Would this be eligible to bring to the top of the bank for safety? Or is it play it as it lies?
:thmbup: I actually didn't mean to just refer to a tree trunk at all so what you are getting at very well applies. If the tree is downed and a large branch also broken off of the downed tree or like I said group of brush etc from a clean up.
jrawk
* Ace Member *
only if the TD declares it as a casual relief zone and says playing from the top is where it should be played.
krupicka
Double Eagle Member
You get 1 m from the OB line. If the bank is steep enough such that the top of the bank is <1m from the OB line then you can play it from the top. If not, play it as it lies.
The steep banked creek situation is one where I prefer to see OB marked at the top of the bank rather than the bottom. It eliminates the safety issues of playing from a steep muddy bank and takes out any questions about relief or determining OB status.
The rules need to be updated to include 'harmful plants'. Someone can get relief from fire ants, but not 5 ft tall poison ivy they'd have to cover their body head to toe in to throw from their lie. That's messed up.
The issue is identification. Lots of people aren't good at differentiating poison oak/ivy/sumac from other non poisonous plants, and it could easily be abused by claiming a bush is harmful when it's really not. You also run into issues like people who aren't affected by urushiol, do they still get relief? I have some major pollen allergies that can cause rashes and hives, do I get relief from flowers? Do you get relief from every plant on every course in Arizona, ruining the only thing that keeps those desert courses from being completely wide open?
It does suck that I've lost strokes taking relief from poison oak and ivy, but I do understand why they aren't automatically included. I take much more issue with TDs who don't take the time to mark and give relief from the stuff at their events.
