Why so many discs?

[Omega SuperSloth]

many people don't like people who are brutally honest...people want to get into a pissing match over opinions...its(the awesome dgcr forum) basically a bowl of soup and you have to decide what works for you...take what you want from all the posts and incorporate it into your game...

good point i was going to say something like that to respond to the last few posts , nobodys solution to someone elses question or problem is gonna work for everyone it might only help one person out of a thousand but that might be one thing that will really help that person improve their game .

like ive said before if you dont want peoples advice whether helpfull or not dont ask for it

 

[garublador]

Who says there has to be a right way to disc, anyway?

Is there a "right" way? No. Is there a fastest and easiest way to improve? Most definitely.

There's methods and disc selection choices that will get just about anyone throwing fairway drivers 350' within a year. You have to commit to it and work on it, though. The fact that there are so many people struggling to throw 300' by doing what "works" for them should be evidence enough that not all methods are created equal. It's not that those other methods are "wrong," it's just that they're way less effective. If you have more fun with a less effective method then there's no reason not to do it. However, using a less effecitve method and then whining about not being able to throw far doesn't seem very productive or logical to me.

I know what it takes to learn to throw that far. I can't possibly tell someone how to have the most fun, though.

 

[Omega SuperSloth]

if the method your speaking of is the "pro" method then i think your incorrect , while what the big dogs teach you is great those things are for already semi-advanced players and when followed by beginners is only going to make things worse .Example- doing the pro x-step when you dont have the arm speed to make it effective sure it will add some distance for you but unless thats the distance you wanna stay at you need to learn to throw first.

what alot of people suggest on here is how to help beginners get started which is totally different than what you might suggest to a semi-advanced player , if they wanna throw like a pro theres plenty of vidoes and youtube stuff available for them but not much available for noobs.

and second the majority of dgrs will never throw 350 consistently and to suggest that its all technique and disc selection is ignorant , if you said 300 id agree more people than not could reach that goal with proper technique . Theres a reason they have different types of guitar lessons your not going to have steve vai teach you how to tune up and what the knobs do , and the sames true for dg.

 

[Adaven]

I agree with Omega here, not everyone is going to break the 350' barrier. This, in my opinion, has less to do with disc selection and more to do with arm speed and natural athletic ability. I understand that technique is very important and improving technique will most certainly improve your game, but if you don't have the strength/arm speed to throw a disc 350' no matter what you are not going to throw it that far. Athletic ability I think is important to consider, for example, no matter how much I practice basketball I am not going to be in the NBA, just don't have the natural ability.

 

[Omega SuperSloth]

I agree with Omega here, not everyone is going to break the 350' barrier. This, in my opinion, has less to do with disc selection and more to do with arm speed and natural athletic ability. I understand that technique is very important and improving technique will most certainly improve your game, but if you don't have the strength/arm speed to throw a disc 350' no matter what you are not going to throw it that far. Athletic ability I think is important to consider, for example, no matter how much I practice basketball I am not going to be in the NBA, just don't have the natural ability.

good point if you watch dan beato's vid it appears he is a pretty big dude , and if you look up the stats of the top pros most are at least 6foot and have big wingspans . Even the top ladies are close to 6foot.

 

[garublador]

I agree with Omega here, not everyone is going to break the 350' barrier. This, in my opinion, has less to do with disc selection and more to do with arm speed and natural athletic ability. I understand that technique is very important and improving technique will most certainly improve your game, but if you don't have the strength/arm speed to throw a disc 350' no matter what you are not going to throw it that far. Athletic ability I think is important to consider, for example, no matter how much I practice basketball I am not going to be in the NBA, just don't have the natural ability.

So, you're saying that few adults have the strength and agility of an 11 year old boy?

http://www.wfdf.org/index.php?page=records/index.htm#distance

The kid can't throw far because he's super strong, he can because his technique and timing are phenominal. Unless you have medical reasons that prevent you from moving right, any adult male has the strength to throw 350'. We all have the strengh to throw 450' if our technique was right, it's just that you only need "sorta OK" technique to throw 350' and you need really good technique to throw fairway drivers >400'. Most of us won't figure out the timing needed to break that last plateau.

Throwing 350' isn't equivalent to playing guitar like Steve Vai or being in the NBA, it's the equivalent of playing guitar like Tom Delong or playing on a HS basketball team. It's just that with basketball and guitar most eveyone acknowledges that there is a most effective way to learn. That isn't true with disc golf and that's why people limit how far they can throw. The knowledge base just isn't the same with disc golf. It's a bit scary how much opposition you see when trying to fix that.

 

[Omega SuperSloth]

would you teach someone thats starting out to do the wiggins throw? ............. no i didnt think so.

and will little wiggie still be able to do that sh** when hes in his thirties and has to work a real job ?
im guessing not cause theres a very good chance hed throw his back out or twist something and end up without a job . And who youd you get to teach a noob guitar someone they could play like in a year or two like tom delonge or someone they may never play like or only after decades of 12hours a day playing like steve vai?

btw im not knocking wiggs that kids good but he got good by putting in the work ,but he also has some natural ability .

 

[DavidSauls]

I coached kids for decades in other sports and there's a difference between strength and athletic ability. Combine natural athletic ability with technique and refinement, and there are 11-year-olds who can throw a ball harder, run faster, move quicker, and excel beyond what many adults can do, no matter what technique you use or how much work you put in.

 

[innova]

Adults think they know everything. Kids are still in the learning mode.

I gave sailing lessons for years and kids listen. Adults debate.

The youngsters generally learned to windsurf faster than many adults.

Go figure.

 

[garublador]

Adults think they know everything. Kids are still in the learning mode.

I gave sailing lessons for years and kids listen. Adults debate.

The youngsters generally learned to windsurf faster than many adults.

Go figure.

Kids assume they can do things, adults assume they can't. It makes a big difference when trying to learn something.

 

[A.Mutt]

Its all about receptiveness to being corrected and a desire to become better. Adults typically don't seem to have this.

 

[Adaven]

I think its funny that people are getting hung up on the strength part of my comment. I never said strength and athletic ability were the same thing either. Why does a disc fly far, spin and velocity. Velocity comes from strength and arm speed, stronger people will tend to have faster arm speed (to a point) a longer wing span is also a very helpful in generating arm speed, and of course good technique allows one to fully utilize these assets. Spin is a much harder part of the equation, for me especially. To my knowledge a player may never develop the spin necessary to throw long bombs. So, to me the ability to develop a good technique and generate a lot of spin would fall under athletic ability, which I would define as little more than a persons ability to manipulate there body successfully for a variety of athletic tasks. My point is that some people are just uncoordinated, or in other words they lack proper athletic ability to develop technique for distance.

 

[Omega SuperSloth]

I think its funny that people are getting hung up on the strength part of my comment. I never said strength and athletic ability were the same thing either. Why does a disc fly far, spin and velocity. Velocity comes from strength and arm speed, stronger people will tend to have faster arm speed (to a point) a longer wing span is also a very helpful in generating arm speed, and of course good technique allows one to fully utilize these assets. Spin is a much harder part of the equation, for me especially. To my knowledge a player may never develop the spin necessary to throw long bombs. So, to me the ability to develop a good technique and generate a lot of spin would fall under athletic ability, which I would define as little more than a persons ability to manipulate there body successfully for a variety of athletic tasks. My point is that some people are just uncoordinated, or in other words they lack proper athletic ability to develop technique for distance.

i agree 100% and if someone cant agree with most your post then they just like to argue .

imo some people have brute strentgh and use just localized muscles to get their power where as some people while small use their whole body to get equal amounts of power like wiggens or alot of asian atheletes do.

everyones different some have all the training and technique down but very little ability or strength while others have both and some have gobs of natural ability and dont wanna put in the time or learn proper form . and then theres the tiger woods people who put in the work ,practice more than anyone, strenghten their body,and have natural abilties and good genes .

 

[Lewis]

I'm in Omega's camp on this one. Whether or not there is a "right" way to learn and teach throwing for distance, I guarantee there will be a normal distribution of everyone's ideally realized ability. In other words, everyone has a different maximum potential, and there are infinitely many reasons that add up to this. Strength and physical dimensions are part of the equation, but there's SOOO much more to it than that. Don't forget flexibility, the elasticity of your joints, the quickness in your muscles, and someone who knows the jargon of kinesiology could probably think of a dozen terms to describe what "coordination" comes from.

It may well be that the "average" person, i.e., someone in the middle of the bell curve in dg talent, can ultimately develop the skill to throw a disc 400' if he has the right training and gets enough quality practice. But we have to remember that this "average" person has more talent than 50% of us and less talent than the other 50%. I'm willing to throw out a wild guess that the "average" male distance talent is less than 400', and I'm fairly confident that it's less than 450'. Even if I'm wrong about that, and the average male distance talent really is 450', that means half of all men will never achieve that kind of range, no matter what they do. That's just how statistics work.

 

[DavidSauls]

Average in the "adult males" who are over 70 years old, and you'll bring that average down.

As a 50-year-old not blessed with great athletic ability, who started disc golf in my mid-30s and who has suffered shoulder injuries, no technique will get me to 450'. Or 400'. Better technique and practice and conditioning might get me to 350'.

My comment about strength was related to the notion in an earlier post that, if a "kid" can throw 450', any adult male can throw 450'. Strength itself is only a part of distance, and a small part at that. Some kids can exceed adults in athletic ability not due to strength, but the other athletic factors they possess.

 

[jdggna]

I don't think 450ft is going to be obtainable by all people. Hell, I'm pretty sure that is what about half of the sponsored players throw consistently. I can put a disc out 450-500 consistently, but it isn't nearly precise enough for me to do it on most holes. The disc also needs a lot of room to work (I'm talking a fairway at least 100' wide). I feel like I can do this because of certain mechanics from certain sports translate fairly closely to how I throw those (FH btw). As soon as I switch to BH my distance drops to somewhere between 300-350. I don't think I'll ever be able to get it as far throwing BH, and I don't attribute this to strength in the least. I'm about half as strong as I was a year ago (literally, most weight I use now when lifting is about 40% of what I used to do. College is taking a great toll on my physical shape) and I am driving about 100' farther than I ever could in the past. Form trumps strength for sure. No matter how strong you are you can't shotput the disc 300 feet. The problem is not everybody is capable of having good form. I'm with Lewis on this one:

Strength and physical dimensions are part of the equation, but there's SOOO much more to it than that. Don't forget flexibility, the elasticity of your joints, the quickness in your muscles, and someone who knows the jargon of kinesiology could probably think of a dozen terms to describe what "coordination" comes from.

Now I haven't been following this really closely since it varied from why you would carry a lot of discs. I believe this tangent started with somebody saying/recommending that you should stick with a Teebird or something similar until you can throw 450 feet. That is absurd. There is no way I could ever throw a Teebird that far, but I can do it with a XCal or Force, so why wouldn't I? I don't really care if I can get a slower disc there or not. If I'm accurate at 325 BH and out to 400ish FH then why wouldn't I just try to push the distance of my faster, farther flying discs instead of getting a slower driver to a range I can already hit accurately?

 

[rockbuddist101]

i carry 18 different discs with 2 duplicates when i play a round. i have several reasons for it as well.

first off, if u pick a disc outta my bag i can give u a detailed description of what i would use each one for.

second, i am a disc junkie and love trying out different discs cause u never know that there isn't a better disc out there. espacilly if u are improving alot or changing ur style often trying to see what works for u.

and finally, i used to carry 20 different discs, but after i have been finding out what works best for me, i have been taking discs outta my bag and replacing them with duplictes with what i no works for me.

im not gonna lie, i think having to many discs can make steping up ur game a little harder because u have to learn how to throw a bunch of different discs. but unless ur a pro, chances are there are probably still many discs out there that u havent tried that may work better for u.

and if for some reason ur favortie disc dosent seem to be doing what u want on a givin round, u can always have different discs to fall back on that carry a similar shot.

 

[bayouace]

As an oldie who doesn't get to play but 3-4 times a month, I can honestly say that a Surge, or Surge SS, and a GT Banger, or VooDoo, will give me my lowest scores. Learn a few discs well if you can't play often. Being a TDD isn't so bad, as long as your two discs that day work well for you and you follow DG course etiquette and rules. I'll tell you this, it won't be me you're waiting on during play.

 

[Omega SuperSloth]

i also only play about once a week most of the time and sometimes i just cant give some of my discs the attention they need to stay consistent with them and tend to stick with the 3-4 discs i use every time and almost know by heart, but even those discs can become a little unfamiliar if i dont play for more than a couple weeks .

 

[Midnightbiker]

i carry 18 different discs with 2 duplicates when i play a round. i have several reasons for it as well.

first off, if u pick a disc outta my bag i can give u a detailed description of what i would use each one for.

second, i am a disc junkie and love trying out different discs cause u never know that there isn't a better disc out there. espacilly if u are improving alot or changing ur style often trying to see what works for u.

and finally, i used to carry 20 different discs, but after i have been finding out what works best for me, i have been taking discs outta my bag and replacing them with duplictes with what i no works for me.

im not gonna lie, i think having to many discs can make steping up ur game a little harder because u have to learn how to throw a bunch of different discs. but unless ur a pro, chances are there are probably still many discs out there that u havent tried that may work better for u.

and if for some reason ur favortie disc dosent seem to be doing what u want on a givin round, u can always have different discs to fall back on that carry a similar shot.

I agree with you 100% . I think the same way you do