Wysoki vs. McBeth

[lyleoross]

Dang, dude, that ****'s cold. Rick played great.

And ftr, McBeth watched the hole be played properly by card mates in 2nd round and self-reported his mis-play the next day. Someone watching on YouTube had nothing to do with it.

Edit: or 3rd round or whatever round it happened in...

Agreed. I'm not sure why people want to take away from Ricky. Even if McBeth wasn't 100%, he kicked another 100 or so players all over the course.

 

[dashiellx]

Not sure why it has to be either/or. Right now, I'm sitting on a bench next to hole 6 at Druid and realizing that this game is a lot harder than they make it look. I just enjoy watching both make shots I dream about.

 

[@iDiscGolf]

Agreed. I'm not sure why people want to take away from Ricky. Even if McBeth wasn't 100%, he kicked another 100 or so players all over the course.

Ricky had a sprained ankle the entire tournament. The entire tournament. Know how hard it is to play with a sprained ankle? What about having a brace on that your not used to?

And still pulling off a big win... Smh

 

[Askar]

Without the Ricky vs Mcbeth is something we need in the game. Cause they are pushing eachother to become better and do even more good. They are both great players with their ups and down. In the end I just want a tight battle between them and this year have proved that Mcbeth is actually beatable in more then a fluke way. Sure his 2 last tournaments he have blown the rest out and Ricky have not been playing bad but not great disc golf. As long as both can stay injury free I doubt we are going to see anyone really competeting with them for the next couple of years and push eachother to become better.

 

[@iDiscGolf]

Without the Ricky vs Mcbeth is something we need in the game. Cause they are pushing eachother to become better and do even more good. They are both great players with their ups and down. In the end I just want a tight battle between them and this year have proved that Mcbeth is actually beatable in more then a fluke way. Sure his 2 last tournaments he have blown the rest out and Ricky have not been playing bad but not great disc golf. As long as both can stay injury free I doubt we are going to see anyone really competeting with them for the next couple of years and push eachother to become better.

I think Eagle may. Maybe a couple more tours. But he's gonna be right up there, and he's still very young. I was looking at Simon as the next top 3 player, but it just hasn't been so. I think eagle will be top 3 soon. Simon for whatever reason just hasn't made it happen. And he has all the potential in the world.

 

[SD86]

I think Eagle may. Maybe a couple more tours. But he's gonna be right up there, and he's still very young. I was looking at Simon as the next top 3 player, but it just hasn't been so. I think eagle will be top 3 soon. Simon for whatever reason just hasn't made it happen. And he has all the potential in the world.

Simon's injury may have been a wake-up slap in the face to him, mentally as well as physically. Once he is back to health and his best form, IMHO he will be a strong competitor for future wins and titles.

I agree that Eagle McMahon is also going to become a contender as he begins to learn and know the courses and hones his game.

Nate Sexton is one who is "almost" right up there but never quite gets over the hump and actually wins. But he is right up there, consistently on top cards in the last round(s), and even some playoffs. He could possibly break through.

Nikko Locastro has surges of top-level ability, and could also possibly get right up there. But he also has fits of inconsistency, and he's doing a lot of other stuff, like his own series of tournaments, working with or starting up companies, etc.

And I'm sure there are others that can come up to top-level ability and competitiveness. Looking forward to seeing what happens... and it's the FPO I really want to see be graced by more players of outstanding ability.

 

[corin_brown]

Ricky finally got hit title and it was becasue McBeth played like ****. Not to mention how soul crushing it is to get penalized 2 strokes the next day after someone watched the YouTube of his round. Good Job Ricky, you can only beat McBeth when his game is ****. I'm not saying Ricky sucks but watch those world rounds and tell me McBeth brought his A game. Ricky beat B+ Paul not A+ Paul.

Lol ALL of this^.

 

[Hampstead]

Ricky finally got hit title and it was becasue McBeth played like ****. Not to mention how soul crushing it is to get penalized 2 strokes the next day after someone watched the YouTube of his round. Good Job Ricky, you can only beat McBeth when his game is ****. I'm not saying Ricky sucks but watch those world rounds and tell me McBeth brought his A game. Ricky beat B+ Paul not A+ Paul.

Edgy! Controversial! Hot take alert!


There, was that the attention you so desperately craved?

 

[Ryan C]

And Ryan, I agree with you that athletes should be judged based on how dominant they are in their era. That's why I think wilt chamberlain is the best basketball player of all time, and why babe Ruth is the best baseball player. I don't care about the competition. If you are that much better than everyone you play against, than good for u. But now who can hit the modern 95 MPH fastball, Trout or Ruth? I'm going with trout. But that doesn't mean that trout is the best player ever(just an example). Same reason I think Climo is, and likely will always be, the best disc golfer ever. He just flat out destroyed everyone for over a decade. Until Paul can do that, Climo is still better. Even if prime McBeast could beat prime Climo(which by the way, he would).

Right, but my point is really that it gets harder and harder to be far ahead of your competition. Say I start my own sport today and teach my wife to play. Say this game gets really big someday. I may have been by farther ahead of my competition when I invented this game than anyone else would ever be after that, but it isn't really a complete picture of what is really going on.

We aren't really playing a sport where your competition directly affects how well you play. We can compare apples to apples by comparing McBeth's scores to Climo's on the very same courses. That is fairly objective. Of course, one could argue that equipment has improved and helped people throw farther than they used to. Even then, comparing athletes of different eras is a little bit easier in golf than other sports.

 

[araytx]

It does, however, get exponentially more difficult to dominate your era when there is more and more and more competition. So if Paul was ever to manage to win half the World's titles Climo did, I'd consider that an even larger accomplishment, because the number of very skilled competitors is higher than ever. What we saw from Paul last season was probably even more dominant than Tiger Wood's best season, which is saying something... But then again, its more difficult to do what Tiger did than what Paul did for the same reason as above.

You made me go look it up. Climo's classic domination year (1995) saw him play in 26 tournaments that year. He got 23 first places and 3 second places. Paul's 2015 doesn't match that.

Ricky finally got hit title and it was becasue McBeth played like ****. Not to mention how soul crushing it is to get penalized 2 strokes the next day after someone watched the YouTube of his round. Good Job Ricky, you can only beat McBeth when his game is ****. I'm not saying Ricky sucks but watch those world rounds and tell me McBeth brought his A game. Ricky beat B+ Paul not A+ Paul.

How *****ty can averaging 1047 for 5 1/2 rounds be? Seriously??? Paul shot 1047 golf and was outplayed those 5 days. Not every tourney, but for that one, he was outplayed.

I don't know if he would or not. Paul's good, but you seem to underestimate The Champ's competition making a statement like that. Almost like he dominated for a reason.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner!

That's how it is in all sports: how to judge the 'best ever', a.k.a. GOAT. Usually one has to do it by comparing a person to those in his era, and see who is dominant. For example, in golf ball golf, with changes in equipment over the years, was Bobby Jones the best? Jack Nicklaus? Tiger Woods?

Baseball has the distinction of playing with exactly the same equipment since it started. The size of the baseball has not changed at all in nearly a century and a half of organized pro baseball. The field dimensions are roughly the same over all that era. So comparing players is easy.

In chess, the game has been the same since the late 1800s, but the availability of books, computers, etc. has changed the players. So who was best? J.R. Capablanca of the early 20th century, who didn't lose a game in nearly 25 years? Bobby Fischer, who won (without a draw) nineteen straight games against the world's best on his way to the World Title? Or Garry Kasparov? All dominated their competition of their eras.

In disc golf, Climo dominated on early equipment, but what was the sport itself at the time? Given the same equipment, would Tiger dominate Jack, or Jack dominate Tiger? Likewise, both in their prime with the best equipment, would Paul McBeth dominate Climo? I think he would. I think Climo was great, but just did not have the competition that McBeth has. IMHO Paul McBeth is to this point the 'best ever'. YMMV.

The only reason the McFanClub say Climo didn't have the same level of competition is because The Champ was so dominant and so much better than the others. Paul, nor anyone else, has come near matching the domination Kenny had -- not even close. Even Paul says so. Like I said earlier, when someone gets 7 or 8 Worlds, 3 USDGCs, and still averaging 1040 in his 40s, then we can talk about them being the GOAT over The Champ. The best EVER includes your whole career! Plus, like any sport, you don't know what Kenny would do growing up in this era with this equipment and this ability to be full-time and this athletic training. I think Ken would dominate Paul. I KNOW Paul and Rick and all of today's guys would struggle much more than Champ in Kenny's heyday.


PS, you're wrong about baseball -- rules are different, mounds are different, bats are different, stadiums are smaller to the fences, training is different, no player has another job in the offseason, people of color get to play, etc. Not the same.

Right, but my point is really that it gets harder and harder to be far ahead of your competition. Say I start my own sport today and teach my wife to play. Say this game gets really big someday. I may have been by farther ahead of my competition when I invented this game than anyone else would ever be after that, but it isn't really a complete picture of what is really going on.

We aren't really playing a sport where your competition directly affects how well you play. We can compare apples to apples by comparing McBeth's scores to Climo's on the very same courses. That is fairly objective. Of course, one could argue that equipment has improved and helped people throw farther than they used to. Even then, comparing athletes of different eras is a little bit easier in golf than other sports.

Paul hasn't shot an over 1100-rated in his 40s yet.

 

[air show]

Since 1999 I have attended almost every KCWO tournament here in Kansas City. Climo,Barry,Russell,and Doss are some of the most memorable players I have watched over the years. Over the past several years Paul and Ricky are the most memorable. I believe Paul and Ricky to be the greatest putters I have ever seen. Moreover their sidearm throws are amazing which the aforementioned players rarely utilized. For these reasons I believe Paul and Ricky are the two best players I have ever had the pleasure of watching. Personally I believe Paul to be the greatest disc golfer I have ever seen play the game.

 

[Ryan C]

You made me go look it up. Climo's classic domination year (1995) saw him play in 26 tournaments that year. He got 23 first places and 3 second places. Paul's 2015 doesn't match that.

Paul hasn't shot an over 1100-rated in his 40s yet.

Both comments are irrelevant. The first, because it still ignores that it is becoming exponentially harder to win tournaments than it used to be, thanks to more players and more competition. So as I said, if Paul ever wins 6 world's titles, I'd consider that be at least as impressive as Ken's 12. Realistically, winning 6 world's today is more impressive than 12 world's titles won mostly in the 90's.

The second is pointless because Paul is not 40 yet.

 

[Geneva]

Simon's injury may have been a wake-up slap in the face to him, mentally as well as physically. Once he is back to health and his best form, IMHO he will be a strong competitor for future wins and titles.

I agree that Eagle McMahon is also going to become a contender as he begins to learn and know the courses and hones his game.

Nate Sexton is one who is "almost" right up there but never quite gets over the hump and actually wins. But he is right up there, consistently on top cards in the last round(s), and even some playoffs. He could possibly break through.

Nikko Locastro has surges of top-level ability, and could also possibly get right up there. But he also has fits of inconsistency, and he's doing a lot of other stuff, like his own series of tournaments, working with or starting up companies, etc.

And I'm sure there are others that can come up to top-level ability and competitiveness. Looking forward to seeing what happens... and it's the FPO I really want to see be graced by more players of outstanding ability.

If you have a look at Simon's player profile, you can see he had a really decent year before his injury. 2 Big Wins at Konopiste and Nick Hyde Memorial, nothing worse than 8th place. He could have been a real contender for the Worlds this year, because the Kansas courses suits perfectly his game. Could have suffered more from the heat though. If he gets fully fit again, he can become a real threat.

Eagle is on his way, just need a little bit more experience. If you have a look at his Worlds Vlog, you can see his father giving him a lesson about the way he behaved during a round getting too confident. He probably won't make that mistake again. If he can stop complaining about the baskets, he'll become better and better.

But, their main problem is consistency (just like Koling, Locastro,...), there are not always competing for 1st (McBeth and Ricky do).

But, then, the upcoming USDGC might be the most competitive one, with the amount of potential winners, coming from BOTH sides of the pond. I'm still putting a penny on Sexton for the USDGC, because he probably won't choke on the last round this time.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Both comments are irrelevant. The first, because it still ignores that it is becoming exponentially harder to win tournaments than it used to be, thanks to more players and more competition. So as I said, if Paul ever wins 6 world's titles, I'd consider that be at least as impressive as Ken's 12. Realistically, winning 6 world's today is more impressive than 12 world's titles won mostly in the 90's.

The second is pointless because Paul is not 40 yet.

Eh.. You make it sound like KC was out there dominating some chuckers lol. Dont forget the discs were harder to throw back then.

Id say your comments are just as irrelevant without any proof that it is "exponentially harder" today...

 

[lyleoross]

Eh.. You make it sound like KC was out there dominating some chuckers lol. Dont forget the discs were harder to throw back then.

Id say your comments are just as irrelevant without any proof that it is "exponentially harder" today...

I'm not sure either point is true, there were good players, but I wouldn't say the discs were harder to throw. The initial upgrades in drivers to cheetahs and that class, XS and XL, resulted in easy to throw long drivers. The next generations were the same. It wasn't until the wide rimmed drivers came in, Crush, Orc, retooled beast, that they got to be less forgiving. At least for me. And while the manufacturers make outrageous claims about distance enhancements there hasn't been that much gained in distance over the past 10 years. The simple fact has always been that accuracy and putting matters more anyway and that hasn't changed.

If anything I might argue that the baskets are better now and that has changed the sport. Kenny and Barry tended to loft discs into the basket whereas guys today go at it harder. Interesting enough, I'd argue that Paul and Ricky are somewhere in the middle, using mixed speed loft putts.

 

[lyleoross]

Since 1999 I have attended almost every KCWO tournament here in Kansas City. Climo,Barry,Russell,and Doss are some of the most memorable players I have watched over the years. Over the past several years Paul and Ricky are the most memorable. I believe Paul and Ricky to be the greatest putters I have ever seen. Moreover their sidearm throws are amazing which the aforementioned players rarely utilized. For these reasons I believe Paul and Ricky are the two best players I have ever had the pleasure of watching. Personally I believe Paul to be the greatest disc golfer I have ever seen play the game.

These points have been much overlooked in this discussion. Today's players have almost doubled their skill set with the sidearm. Not quite, but it changed the game. It's as if Ted Williams could hit equally well from either side of the plate. Makes it hard to compare though.

 

[lyleoross]

If you have a look at Simon's player profile, you can see he had a really decent year before his injury. 2 Big Wins at Konopiste and Nick Hyde Memorial, nothing worse than 8th place. He could have been a real contender for the Worlds this year, because the Kansas courses suits perfectly his game. Could have suffered more from the heat though. If he gets fully fit again, he can become a real threat.

Eagle is on his way, just need a little bit more experience. If you have a look at his Worlds Vlog, you can see his father giving him a lesson about the way he behaved during a round getting too confident. He probably won't make that mistake again. If he can stop complaining about the baskets, he'll become better and better.

But, their main problem is consistency (just like Koling, Locastro,...), there are not always competing for 1st (McBeth and Ricky do).

But, then, the upcoming USDGC might be the most competitive one, with the amount of potential winners, coming from BOTH sides of the pond. I'm still putting a penny on Sexton for the USDGC, because he probably won't choke on the last round this time.

Consistency is key. KJ has shown this in his tournament prep. I'd argue KJ is number three to five in the world, and he spots the young guys 10 years. His game prep is the best and it pays off.

 

[BENFTS]

Good thing for Ricky Mcbeth rarely brought his A-game this year. Oh yeah, thats something called consistency.

It's called injury bro.

 

[BENFTS]

Edgy! Controversial! Hot take alert!


There, was that the attention you so desperately craved?

I literally don't want any attention. I came to say my bit and bounce.

Do you feel better now that you have responded to my statement? I hope you do becasue you've accomplished nothing. :doh:

 

[BENFTS]

Yeah, but Ricky was bringing his b-game when Paul won all those titles in a row so it is whatever

I'll just assume English is your second language and you don't know what you're talking about.

Cheers