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The definition of Re-throw doesn't state anything about what is the previous lie, just that it is a throw from the same lie which is played instead of the previous throw from that lie.
Re-throw said:
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Your most recent provisional?
- Thread starter Steve West
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That still doesn't say any lie can be used in a re-throw situation. The previous throw is the previous throw, not any previous throw.
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Then what is the point of being able to elect "at any time" being included in the rules, if you can only use it at a certain time?
Because you can use a rethrow "at any time" - on a drive, a putt, an upshot, whenever. But it still has to be a rethrow of the last shot you threw. You can't drive, and upshot, and then miss a putt and be like "I'm going to go use a re-throw on my drive".
At any time means you can't be restricted from using the optional re-throw if you elect to do it. That doesn't mean you get to re-throw from anywhere you want any time you want. Allowing optional re-throw at any time is allowing a player to re-throw their most recent throw from the same place that that throw was made from, without exception.
You don't, for example, get to re-throw a putt by going back to the tee and throwing it from there. You re-throw from the same lie as the original throw was made from.
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I disagree. In the context of "at any time", the previous lie can be considered any previous lie in the progress of events as a whole.
By your definition the rule should be stated that a player may only re-throw from the last previous lie.
Time said:
By your definition the rule should be stated that a player may only re-throw from the last previous lie.
So, in your view, does the rule as written allow me to go back to a lie on a previous hole?
No. Either you don't understand context or you are intentionally taking the phrase "at any time" out of its correct context to make it fit your argument.
It DOES state that. The previous lie can be no other lie but the last lie. If the intent was to allow for any previous lie to be used, the rule would say "any previous lie" rather than "the previous lie". The implies one.
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Not after you holed out - successfully completed the hole.
If you played from a previous lie on a previous hole to the current hole, then that would be a misplay of incorrect lie.
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Disagree. "Any previous lie" would include a previous lie from any hole.
"The previous lie" is confined to but also includes any previous lie in current series of a hole.
How do you extract that specific notion from those 3 words? Lie is singular, how can it mean multiple things?
No it doesn't. You believing it does doesn't make it true. The previous lie is one lie. Not any of a series of lies. Not any lie in a round. It is ONE lie.
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But then time is irrelevant.
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"At any time".
Lie is singular, how can it mean multiple things?
Irrelevant to determining what the previous lie is? Absolutely it is.
Time, in the context of the rule, is in reference to when (not where) the optional re-throw can be taken. At any time means that there's no limit on when a player can choose to re-throw his most recent shot. One doesn't have to decide to do it within 3 seconds or 30 seconds or 3 minutes. One doesn't have to make the decision before leaving the lie from which he must re-throw. One isn't prevented from going back to that lie after assessing the result of the original throw.
In fact, the only thing that prevents one from re-throwing any particular shot is playing from the lie that results from that throw (because it renders that lie as the previous lie). So if you tee off, then play from where the tee shot landed, you can no long re-throw the tee shot as an optional re-throw. You can only re-throw from the lie in the fairway you just played from.
This isn't a complex notion. Certainly not worth this much back and forth to make it clear.
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People lie.
krupicka
Double Eagle Member
JC - Where do the rules limit a misplayed lie call to only being once per hole? I completely agree that for a single throw only one penalty applies (801.01.H), but if there is a misplayed lie on throw 2 and another on throw 5, aren't these separate actions resulting in separate penalties?
What does lying have to do with anything?
I'm basing it on 803.03.G(1): "If an additional throw or throws have been made after the misplayed throws, the player shall complete the hole being played and be assessed a two-throw penalty for the misplay".
Once the first misplay occurred and multiple throws were made subsequent to it, the two throw penalty applied. I think adding a second penalty would be doubly penalizing for the same offense.
No different than if a scorecard were turned in late and the total was incorrect. The player wouldn't get a two-throw penalty for each infraction, it would be one two-throw penalty added to the correct score for a scoring error.
