USDGC results-exactly what people were worried about?

[steve a]

@Dave242 - Why does Innova get to change the culture/tournament scene? What about the other companies that want disc golf to be more competetive and reward pro's for playing in their tournament with the money they NEED to continue being able to tour? (playing devils advocate as I'm an AM that really only plays local tourneys)

Oh well, there's always the PDGA Championship in GA now to rally behind.

Innova gets to change their tournament because it is their tournament. They wanted to experiment with a new format and they have every right to. Other companies have every right to keep doing things the way they want to. Last I checked the Vibram Open won't be handicapped.

 

[bradharris]

@Dave242 - Why does Innova get to change the culture/tournament scene? What about the other companies that want disc golf to be more competetive and reward pro's for playing in their tournament with the money they NEED to continue being able to tour? (playing devils advocate as I'm an AM that really only plays local tourneys)

Because they're paying for it. If other companies want to see a competitive high payout pro event, they can put up the money to make it happen.

 

[Lewis]

LOL that explains alot

On topic : This format would be a good idea, much like communism could be a good idea. But for the format to work, you need a proper handicap system. And there is none. So the format will never work properly.

Kinda like communism will never work properly.

 

[Stetz1010]

Okay how about giving me a reason that hasn't already been beat to death. I know they pay for it so they get to run it however they want, that's quite obvious. Yes competition should be fun, but it should also be COMPETETIVE. Winning this years USDGC is like winning a rec. league sport, yeah it was fun, but it doesn't prove/mean anything. I love how people were pissed about the show Happy Endings belittling DG, an then there's a tourney like this that only furthers the public opinion that DG is a leisurely activity not to be taken seriously. If I never played, never knew what the sport was even, and someone told me that some random guy beat some of the best players, former USDGC and World champs, and it was thru a handicap system, I'de probably laugh at the "sport," and be even less interested in playing.

 

[fliphyzer]

I agree that since Innova puts up the dough, they should be able to do whatever they want.
But do not expect people to have the same respect for someone who wins the Handicapped USDGC vs. the Fair one. I thought the USDGC was the best of the best, now its whoever played the system the best.

 

[Lewis]

Is there something wrong in principle with handicapped events, or just with handicapping this one? I don't have a problem with crowning the best performer vs. himself instead of the best performer vs. everybody else (it's golf, after all), but with the way this thread is going, I wonder if the organizers at Innova have a point about changing the culture.

 

[bradharris]

Okay how about giving me a reason that hasn't already been beat to death. I know they pay for it so they get to run it however they want, that's quite obvious. Yes competition should be fun, but it should also be COMPETETIVE. Winning this years USDGC is like winning a rec. league sport, yeah it was fun, but it doesn't prove/mean anything. I love how people were pissed about the show Happy Endings belittling DG, an then there's a tourney like this that only furthers the public opinion that DG is a leisurely activity not to be taken seriously. If I never played, never knew what the sport was even, and someone told me that some random guy beat some of the best players, former USDGC and World champs, and it was thru a handicap system, I'de probably laugh at the "sport," and be even less interested in playing.

Innova has decided to change what the USDGC means. Rather than a prestigious, serious event, it's more of a fun, casual feel that crowns the weeks best performer.

There will always be complaints about the handicapping format and there are probably improvements that can be made there. At the end of the day though, the competitors had a great time playing this event.

There are still plenty of serious competitions in the National Tour, PDGA Championship and World Championship events. This is just one event that Innova has decided to change the culture of in it's best business interests.

 

[Stetz1010]

I only feel this way about handicapping THIS event. If you want to run a handicapped tourney for AMs then by all means have at it, but the guys that consider themselves Pro's don't put in years of practicing/working to develop their game only to fall short b/c someone had an unfair advantage. And anyone that will respond with, "They were all playing the same course," no, they were not playing the same course at all, when the scores are changed for each individual, the course itself is basically changed for each individual.

 

[Script]

Innova seems to have the USDGC by the balls... that is what needs to change.

 

[bradharris]

the guys that consider themselves Pro's don't put in years of practicing/working to develop their game only to fall short b/c someone had an unfair advantage.

That's why very few pros played this year. The ones that did came in knowing full-well what the format was and embraced it whole-heartedly.

 

[bradharris]

Innova seems to have the USDGC by the balls... that is what needs to change.

Innova created the USDGC. The alternative is no USDGC...

 

[oddjob]

Innova seems to have the USDGC by the balls... that is what needs to change.

:|..

 

[Script]

Innova created the USDGC. The alternative is no USDGC...

Sounds good to me. Innova shouldn't have created the USDGC if it wasn't gonna stand up to its name. In it's current format the PDGA should not allow it to be considered a major.

 

[rnance7]

I think you should have 20 rated rounds before you can qualify for something like this...I played and had a blast, but the guy's caddie who won was straight up telling people that he was a 978 rated player who broke his right hand and had to play in tournaments left handed earlier in the year, thus his rating dropped. So when his right hand healed, he returned to shooting 970+ rounds...THE USDGC WAS SANDBAGGED BIG TIME. His projected score was an 89 for crying out loud! Look at what the other people who were projected that shot....This course was so brutal that there is no way an 860-880 player is shooting below an 80 there, and he did it two rounds. Only posting this to stop the speculation as to how he won. He played lefty and got his rating down, then went righty for the USDGC

 

[rnance7]

Does dude get a ring like the past true winners???

No, all he got was a painting that said "2011 United States Disc Golf Champion"

 

[SirRaph]

Only posting this to stop the speculation as to how he won. He played lefty and got his rating down, then went righty for the USDGC

That's a problem if that's true.

 

[rnance7]

That's a problem if that's true.

Like seriously, his caddie was telling people this during round 1...it makes perfect sense because out of 130 golfers only 3 finished under par...Key with -16 and 2nd place with a -1

 

[esdubya]

Too bad this had to happen.. Other than Key it looks like most of the players played to their projections.

If you throw out his scores and look at the 'real' top four:
Looks like Feldberg shot a 248 real score which would have taken 3rd place outright last year.. That's some good shooting, especially considering the length of round, what he was playing for, and who he was playing with.

 

[ArcheType]

If you listened to Jonathan Poole's interview, it is pretty clear that Innova feels the need to change the culture of tournament disc golf.

On one hand they feel like with how high they have set the bar (and have continually raised it) with the USDGC, they have put a lot of pressure on the entire worldwide tournament scene to do likewise. And they have given false hope to aspiring Pro's that there is hope to being able to make a living off touring in the near term.

They have also been instrumental in creating/fostering the weird divide in DG of a semi pro culture - one that gets paid in cash and another that gets paid in plastic coins. A culture that does not hold enduring fun/joy for anyone. Nor is it an ideal model for the disc golf business. Nor is what they have been doing growing the grass roots audience needed to get the eyeballs which outside sponsors need in order to involve their money in the sport (at least not to the level they had hoped a decade+ ago).

On the other hand, they want to grow the tournament scene in an area that is not mainstream in DG - handicapped events. This allows real competition to take place in an environment that does away with the cash/plastic divide (or at least has the potential to do so) and is a sustainable fun environment to play in (once the bugs are worked out).

I commend Innova for taking a leadership role in working to change the culture of competitive DG. They took a big risk with their most visible involvement in tournament play. Some scenarios played out in a bad way for them, but I think these will only help accelerate the tweaks that need to be made to make handicap play more mainstream in our sport.

 

[Nuke]

The problem is that handicapping is such an imperfect science. There are too many factors that go into it. For a lot of things, handicapping is fine, even with its shortcomings. But it just seems like a bad idea for such a large event, regardless of where it is or what it's called. I'd almost rather see them create it as an am event, cap the high point of the rating and have like 3 flights or something, rather than messing with the scoring. You could still charge the same, get the same profits and not have a cash payout. And, for god's sake, take out stroke and distance for the 'performance' version. 6 hour rounds? Nightmare...