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you mean those purple ones with something like hole #7 on it?
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[Compare] Buzzz vs. Roc
- Thread starter Dan Ensor
- Start date
you mean those purple ones with something like hole #7 on it?
The Hammer
* Ace Member *
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From an open letter thread to 3Putt and Garb:
"Beads alter drag and lift making discs fly more stable. Similar to a race car in principle, spoilers make the car more stable to the ground.
... or another analogy is moving the elevator down on an airplanes tail wing. The taller the bead, the more prone the disc will be fading toward the ground. This, I assume, is the easiest way to counteract a discs understability. Shave the bead off a Roc and it will behave similar to a Buzzz. Or.... shave the bead off a Wasp and it will be similar to a buzzz."
DG_Before_Breakfast
Double Eagle Member
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Who actually wrote this though? I'm assuming it is someone with a lot of Disc aerodynamics street credit.
The qualification of being "an open letter thread to 3Putt and Garb" doesn't mean a lot to me.
Future_Primitive
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The Hammer
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Brodysseus
* Ace Member *
Ok, let's say the 2nd part of that statement is true (I still personally think the bead has a noticeable effect on the flight throughout all parts of the rocs cycle, but I'll agree to disagree). However, the first part is not at all counter to what I originally posted. The bead does add durability, which gives the Roc a longer life cycle/keeps it from getting flippy too fast, which I initially said.
DG_Before_Breakfast
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If this were true then why did the FACTOR discs come out. Where I believe Steady Ed took innova discs and shaved down the bead area to more the discs fly more understable, to simulate the disc breaking in.
The Hammer
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Can someone actually verify that a discs bead has purposes for durability? This thread is the first I've heard of that, and quite frankly don't believe.
Brodysseus
* Ace Member *
I'm not sure about actual durability... I guess I was just saying the bead allows the Roc to perform decently in wind through it's whole life cycle, so I guess it's more like sustainability.
Actually, the original point I was making got pretty muddled, all I was trying to say was:
The Roc is beaded and starts out (fairly) overstable. I personally believe the bead is part of the reason the Roc starts out overstable. Because a Roc starts out overstable, it can cover all midrange needs (except extremely OS if you feel like you need that slot) in a variety of wear patterns. I also personally believe that having the bead makes a Roc handle the wind better in all stages of wear. But I will admit, that is entirely subjective, and I do not know of any concrete, scientific data to back that assertion.
I am not making blanket statements about beads in general, just saying the bead on a Roc is part of why it is so good at what it does. Also I am not saying that Rocs beat in any differently than other discs, just that design of the Roc (and in this case I singled out the Roc's bead) allows it to be useful across a spectrum of stabilities.
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The Vector is fantastic and if you pair it with a Buzzz it is an unstoppable duo. Although you can just use a Buzzz and be fine. I'm not a fan of the Roc but a ton of people do. MVP has made great mids but not a legendary one like the (Buzzz, Comet, or Roc).
tbird888
Salient Disc Test Team
There have been several posts on here that state that beads were created for durability purposes, and they soon discovered that it made discs fly more overstable.
You're current with your membership, aren't you? That would be a pretty awesome question to ask Dave (one I would love an answer to). Any chance you'd get on the PDGA forums and ask him?
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Comet
Element
...I can think of more but its early.
It may add to stability but nothing to do with overstability. The bead is on a wide variety of discs from over to under stable. wing shape is what determines that flight not the bead. the most it may do is create a little extra drag.
additionally, the Buzzz for instance has no bead yet it doesn't get flippy fast. and before you try and use the removal of the bead from the wasp to get the buzzz bs. the 1st run buzzz's were every bit as overstable as the Wasps of the time, they just excelled at continuing straighter for longer before the fade kicked in.
I'm pretty sure this was answered in last months beaded thread.
sneakytiki
Birdie Member
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That sentence is a head scratcher, for sure.
i refuse to use stability in the stupid way disc golf wants it to be. so take it for what stability literally means.
haha, okay let me try and understand the crap you just typed.
You claim a bead adds nothing extra to create a more over stable flight...
The Buzzz / Wasp has essentially the SAME WING +/- a bead and there are noticeably differences in stability.
Oh, we can't use that as an example because you claim it's "bs" ? :doh:
What a terrible argument. Probably the best example of a mold +/- a bead and you just throw it out as "bs".
1st run Buzzzes were flukey stable for the mold, obviously, since few other runs fly anything like it. And even with that extra fade, the 1st run was not as overstable as a Wasp.
sneakytiki
Birdie Member
Even if you use "stability" to mean neutral, it must have SOMETHING to do with overstability, since its all on the same scale.
It doesn't make sense today, but considering where disc golf was at when the bead first debuted it would make a lot more sense. It slows the seasoning rate of baseline plastic considerably, allowing a disc to wear much more before becoming understable. This was a major issue in the '80s.
DiscWazzu
Bogey Member
I carry a FLX Buzz along with a DX Glow Roc, Roc3, Star San Marino, and an old CE Roc. I think they are all great discs that cover a wide variety of shots. My FLX Buzz and Roc3 cover the forehand shots while the others are for backhanding.
NOStheBOSS
Double Eagle Member
here is a chart that virtually everyone can agree on, correct?
why can't stability be used to compare discs on the scale? It's must easier and simpler to use stability as a measure from US to OS, instead of worrying about using 3 different comparative adjectives to describe discs in relation to one another.
EX: my comet is more stable than my magic, but less stable than my drone
