DGWT cancelled?

[DanJon]

There is a European Tour and a new PDGA Europe organization. Wouldn't surprise me if the DGWT team shifted focus to more support for and growing the Euro Tour events to rival the NT events in America.

This is the most likely scenario and a smart decision.

The whole thing just proves (again) that the U.S. Professional Tour will never have big time sponsors throwing millions of dollars into the sport, or prime time coverage (beyond Sportscenter).

That's not to say that there can't be a successful bottom-up-model Pro Tour that helps grow the sport/tour; through more industry sponsorship, support and involvement. Not just by pouring money into tournaments, but also supporting disc golf media sources and influencers.

When you find success in that situation you're more likely to see sustainable third party/outside support, than if some big shots threw money around for year or two and then pulled the plug.

But kudos to them for trying.

 

[RistoS]

And usually when someone "suspends" operation, it's just a soft landing for closing down. Pulling the plug after scheduling for 2018 really gives this appearance.

It's 100% that Spin18 isn't closing before 2019, as they're on contract for a Finnish event next year.

 

[Therealgoat]

But kudos to them for trying.

This. Everyone acts like he OWED us something. Like, I get the Salient hate, and some of their decisions actually could have had a bad look/impact on the sport (Hooters girls), but I fail to see why so many of you seem to be relieved the DGWT is cancelled next year.

Jussi made some comments that didn't sit well with a lot of the active board members here, I also get that, and how he handled one of the bigger controversies (live coverage) was poor, but honestly? He's not doing this to please you. He was doing this to grow a tour, grow the sport, and FFS...make money doing it...like any business, ever?

Someone commented earlier on the his lack of support for the Women's side, and I think that's a joke at this stage of the game. I 100% want full support eventually. It's numbers at this point. I laugh to myself thinking about how 99% of the posters here would fare trying to run any kind of business successfully. We're talking about the DBE status of a tour struggling to get off the ground?

As for major sponsors, there were Coke ads in the USDGC coverage, no? Adidas? What they contribute at this point is a pittance to them, but if we can draw the brands, in any capacity, the potential is there for future $$, once the #'s start to make more sense.

I think Jussi had some lofty goals, needed to smash this thing out of the park to make good on those goals, and fell short. Did that, hurt us, in any way? No? Then he should be applauded for trying, for if anything it DID help grow the sport, got more people involved, got new sponsors involved, increased exposure in all kinds of ways that WILL help set up future success.

Anyone think they could do better? Because they would have done a yuuuge 1 or 2 things differently, and feel like THAT was in any way/shape/form the reason the DGWT is cancelled? By all means, gentlemen.

 

[bwgort]

This. Everyone acts like he OWED us something. Like, I get the Salient hate, and some of their decisions actually could have had a bad look/impact on the sport (Hooters girls), but I fail to see why so many of you seem to be relieved the DGWT is cancelled next year.

Someone commented earlier on the his lack of support for the Women's side, and I think that's a joke at this stage of the game. I 100% want full support eventually. It's numbers at this point. I laugh to myself thinking about how 99% of the posters here would fare trying to run any kind of business successfully. We're talking about the DBE status of a tour struggling to get off the ground?

Why is wanting to have a tour championship for females a joke? I think its a joke that a tour could think it appropriate to have 3 events for the FPO division but not allow them to have a tour championship like the MPO division. Accomodations could have been made to make the USWDGC the tour championship for the women but instead Jussi said ""Yes, we want to give female players an opportunity to play DGWT courses." Lip service isn't the point and the more inclusive nature of the NT and DGPT means I'd rather support those tours over the DGWT.

 

[DavidSauls]

He didn't say wanting a tour championship for females was a joke.

The issue is demanding it as part of the first step of creating a media-financed tour. If the goal is to create a mass spectator sport---which it seems to be---one approach would begin with a narrow focus on those most likely to draw the most spectators. If that works it can be expanded or emulated; if it doesn't work, it doesn't matter anyway.

 

[Golden Tuna]

Why is wanting to have a tour championship for females a joke?

We'll have to rely on the poster to clarify what was truly meant by that comment, but I interpreted it slightly differently than I think you have.... When I read that statement, I thought the point was basically that you have to crawl before you can walk.

From a business perspective, trying to launch something new, you'd want to deliver a product that appeals to the largest segment of the target audience. If I understand the demographics of the audience, that's MPO coverage.

Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the FPO coverage as well, but only watch that after the MPO coverage. FPO coverage is just as much of a "joke" as Junior's coverage, meaning only that additional coverage requires resources that weren't unavailable. The joke is that people expect it when they're (more or less) getting a product (MPO coverage) for free.

Jussi fell short of his goals and probably could benefit from some public relations lessons. But, I've got to give him credit for getting out there and trying to do something new to advance disc golf. I'm curious what all these keyboard warriors that are so quick to judge are doing to advance disc golf...

 

[Therealgoat]

David and Tuna both already explained it, but just to expand:

I do want it, but the numbers just don't support it yet. As an unfortunate fact of the world we live in, the men's side of most sports is going to draw a larger audience and be more profitable from nearly any metric. If Jussi couldn't make the numbers work now, how would adding more cost for less return on a smaller topic be worthwhile, from a business perspective? If you go purely by the # of FPO vs. the # of MPO in any "Tour" event, the women's side has a long way to go before they can be self-supporting.

Do they need products/ads directed specifically to women, in anticipation of women being the spectators for women's coverage? That's a long ways off. I hope some day it happens, like the LPGA or WNBA, and any coverage or support we get for women's events in the meantime is a bonus, and I thank the TDs and film crews and spotters and anyone else involved in helping support and grow the women's game. But that is all outside the scope of what was trying to be done. If you can't take the biggest part of the game, with the largest audience/sponsors/support and make it work yet, then we're way ahead of ourselves for criticizing them for not supporting the FPO equally.

 

[lyleoross]

Okay, let me get this straight. Some visionary tried to blow up disc golf big time with a top-down media fed approach, and it likely didn't work?

Shocking I tell you. Shocking. Next thing you know, someone will look up in the sky on a clear day and see blue.

I can't honestly say that I've paid any special attention to this tour, (or the DGPT events for that matter), other than hearing the carping about the coverage, or lack thereof, on this board.

While there is some truth here, it also misses a point. The amount of discussion and participation in events changed significantly over the past two years. Yes, these events were discussed in the past but not in the same fashion. That should be considered a success or at least interesting.

If the goal is universal attention, well you're never gonna get that. There will always be a Scarpfish and that's a good thing. Gawd, if we all marched in lockstep it would be awful. But the dynamic built in DGPT is pretty good and growing. DGWT didn't get the same attention, despite having marque events, but it had a discussion vibe based on the tour.

 

[curmudgeonDwindle]

This thread is funny.

Anybody remember the Costner vehicle, 'Waterworld'?

Aesthetic judgements aside, Waterworld was the first $200 million film (production) and was roundly criticized on that basis alone. Now look at that industry with regard to production budgets.

Why not just enjoy the ride and be happy you aren't the one taking the bloody nose, financially speaking. Everyone who enjoys this game owes a massive debt of gratitude to those brave enough to take the risks to get it out there IRL, whether they succeed or fail...

That's just how things in the world of men works...only via mistake-making can one learn.

 

[GoldeyeGolf]

This thread is funny.

Anybody remember the Costner vehicle, 'Waterworld'?

Aesthetic judgements aside, Waterworld was the first $200 million film (production) and was roundly criticized on that basis alone. Now look at that industry with regard to production budgets.

Why not just enjoy the ride and be happy you aren't the one taking the bloody nose, financially speaking. Everyone who enjoys this game owes a massive debt of gratitude to those brave enough to take the risks to get it out there IRL, whether they succeed or fail...

That's just how things in the world of men works...only via mistake-making can one learn.

But not in the "world of women"?

 

[Moose33]

Seems like this is a first one over that wall gets slugged type of thing. He tried something no one had really done before, in a way no one had ever tried before. Some people got upset, a lot of people were happy with it. I think we all learned a lot about where DG is as a business proposition and while this is big business to us, it's just an infant in terms of long term faniancial vaiabilty.

The big thing at this point is guys like Jussi and Steve and others care enough to try this hard. People will learn from their mistakes and build on their triumphs and eventually we will have our audience.

How many league bankruptcies and restructurings did soccer go through before we got the finacially self supporting MLS and NWSL in the USA? It took 40+ years to get there, and football/soccer has a huge reach.

We're going the right direction, but it's still baby steps.

 

[zj1002]

I'm sure it has been said but the biggest problem is this tour is firmly attached to the Innova/DM vehicle. Regardless of it being a separate company all the funding and commercials are all internally funded aside from GRIP. The sports biggest source of commercial revenue is internally right now and they won't let other manufacturers get on this DGWT program.

The DGPT was smartly cut away by Steve from his connections to Vibram. It easy to find the "partners" tab on the DGPT website, where as nothing like that exists on the WT site aside from Innova/DM/Grip branding. I have a hard time believing either tour can sustain itself because the return on investment isn't their with either tour unless you make a disc golf product. Again this is what Steve understood, his tour needed support from every corner of the sport to stay afloat. I work full time for an energy bar company(MINT doens't pay the bills!) and I can tell you disc golf just doesn't move the needle aside from our local advertising. The only athlete that has created a brand for himself is McBeth and he is pretty committed to sponsors that have ties back to Innova(this is how he got Addidas). Most companies would rather put a marketing campaign into a bigger sport than gamble on disc golf. But I do believe if it pops they'll start lining up.

 

[Smigles]

Funny that complaining aout taking away live coverage of those events.

I never saw live coverage of australian open or the konopiste event. Or european open for that matter. In the days before spin TV and Jomez the only hope of any footage was when lcgm8 was at the event.

 

[RistoS]

I'm sure it has been said but the biggest problem is this tour is firmly attached to the Innova/DM vehicle. Regardless of it being a separate company all the funding and commercials are all internally funded aside from GRIP. The sports biggest source of commercial revenue is internally right now and they won't let other manufacturers get on this DGWT program.

The DGPT was smartly cut away by Steve from his connections to Vibram. It easy to find the "partners" tab on the DGPT website, where as nothing like that exists on the WT site aside from Innova/DM/Grip branding.

This is true apart from European Open, which had a decent number of commercial event partners from outside the sport. Innova, Discmania, DiscGolfPark and Grip EQ were the global partners.

 

[mmblink86]

I'm sure it has been said but the biggest problem is this tour is firmly attached to the Innova/DM vehicle. Regardless of it being a separate company all the funding and commercials are all internally funded aside from GRIP. The sports biggest source of commercial revenue is internally right now and they won't let other manufacturers get on this DGWT program.

The DGPT was smartly cut away by Steve from his connections to Vibram. It easy to find the "partners" tab on the DGPT website, where as nothing like that exists on the WT site aside from Innova/DM/Grip branding. I have a hard time believing either tour can sustain itself because the return on investment isn't their with either tour unless you make a disc golf product. Again this is what Steve understood, his tour needed support from every corner of the sport to stay afloat. I work full time for an energy bar company(MINT doens't pay the bills!) and I can tell you disc golf just doesn't move the needle aside from our local advertising. The only athlete that has created a brand for himself is McBeth and he is pretty committed to sponsors that have ties back to Innova(this is how he got Addidas). Most companies would rather put a marketing campaign into a bigger sport than gamble on disc golf. But I do believe if it pops they'll start lining up.

Bingo. DGPT is the vehicle for sustainable MPO/FPO growth at the moment. The PDGA should seriously consider an agreement to run the NT/DGPT as one entity in an effort to focus its limited resources on advanced market and amateur development, Worlds events, and membership management.

 

[tbird888]

How are any of those four names "outside the sport"?

 

[RistoS]

How are any of those four names "outside the sport"?

https://www.discgolfworldtour.com/events-item/european-open-2017/

 

[zj1002]

This is true apart from European Open, which had a decent number of commercial event partners from outside the sport. Innova, Discmania, DiscGolfPark and Grip EQ were the global partners.

That is exactly what I am getting at though. They exclude the entire rest of the sport hoping to ride that to exclusive deals to benefit their parent brand. There are so many other disc companies and bag makers that would pay for advertising space and help that tour be slightly more sustainable. Business wise it makes tons of sense to operate the way they do, they get a larger cut in the end IF they hit a home run. They haven't yet. All their partners for that event were European based where Jussi has years of connections. He would be more successful keeping the tour in Europe. Dodge is doing this for the sport, not his brand.

 

[DavidSauls]

Bingo. DGPT is the vehicle for sustainable MPO/FPO growth at the moment. The PDGA should seriously consider an agreement to run the NT/DGPT as one entity in an effort to focus its limited resources on advanced market and amateur development, Worlds events, and membership management.

I'd think this very thread would be evidence of the PDGA's wisdom in not ceding the NT to an outside entity.

At least, not yet.

 

[tbird888]

https://www.discgolfworldtour.com/events-item/european-open-2017/

Apologies. I misread your post as you citing those four as the outside sponsors. :doh: