No, for R4
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Pro Tour Live Coverage
- Thread starter RootsDiscGolf
- Start date
No, for R4
NegaSnapples
Par Member
I only ever watch post production, as I usually don't have time to watch live coverage, so I can't comment on how the live coverage was. However, the post production was completely flat and dull. It seriously just wasn't a very good product. I didn't enjoy watching it the same way I enjoy CCDG and Jomez.
It's not even me being "overly critical" or "closed minded" like other posters here are saying. I went into viewing it with a completely open mind and wanting to enjoy the coverage... but it just wasn't good. From the shoddy camera work to the dull colors on screen, it was just a complete mess compared to what I (and others) have grown accustomed to.
The final cherry on top was watching Corey's interview with Steve Dodge. That guy is a tool in every sense of the word. I have zero issues boycotting his chit product going forward.
It's not even me being "overly critical" or "closed minded" like other posters here are saying. I went into viewing it with a completely open mind and wanting to enjoy the coverage... but it just wasn't good. From the shoddy camera work to the dull colors on screen, it was just a complete mess compared to what I (and others) have grown accustomed to.
The final cherry on top was watching Corey's interview with Steve Dodge. That guy is a tool in every sense of the word. I have zero issues boycotting his chit product going forward.
One significant thing to consider is the time of year. I was one of those 4,600 viewers, but I can say with 100% certainty that in 4 to 6 weeks I will spend zero time watching live coverage of FPO (or MPO).
I mean given the choice of sitting inside and watching live disc golf, or being outside actually playing or practicing disc golf (or any number of other warmer weather activities), I'll choose the latter 100% of the time.
Future_Primitive
Double Eagle Member
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2012
- Messages
- 1,770
Similar to Nega above, skipped the live stuff as its much easier to find 30-60 min to view the entire round after the fact. Camera work is going to need to vastly improve in order to stay interested in viewing the tournaments. Somebody please superglue the friggin zoom button on every camera. So much zooming into see a plastic circle in the sky while losing all relation to the shot and hole layout. Never know if it is good or bad until it hits the ground and they show the relation to the basket. Plus you miss out on the actual flight of the disc.
As some others have pointed out, jumping to various views on the drives of all 4 players. Behind, to the side, from the pin, etc... Enjoy seeing the route(s) and the flight of the disc to see how they played it. And please synch up the commentary with the actual play and avoid annoying delays. This stuff shouldnt be that hard when you have years of examples of DG footage showing what works and doesnt work. Not sure if they are purposely trying to do it different for the sake of being different or what. Not very impressive at all, the best camera work was the drone footage during sunset. Disappointing beginning to say the least.
As some others have pointed out, jumping to various views on the drives of all 4 players. Behind, to the side, from the pin, etc... Enjoy seeing the route(s) and the flight of the disc to see how they played it. And please synch up the commentary with the actual play and avoid annoying delays. This stuff shouldnt be that hard when you have years of examples of DG footage showing what works and doesnt work. Not sure if they are purposely trying to do it different for the sake of being different or what. Not very impressive at all, the best camera work was the drone footage during sunset. Disappointing beginning to say the least.
Twmccoy
* Ace Member *
Agree. Soon as the weather gets nice I won't spend any time inside watching old internet clips of DG. I just watch it now because I'm bored. Weather here has been awful.
I also agree with Nega. When a big tournament is underway I avoid news about the results and watch Jomez or CCDG post-produced coverage in the evening when I've got the time. I've tried watching live a few times but between the glacial pace and the (often) inconvenient time of day when I'm busy doing other things, I simply don't stay with it.
So for the Pro Tour event I looked up the results and that will be that. I'm looking forward to the next tournaments covered by Jomez/CCDG.
So for the Pro Tour event I looked up the results and that will be that. I'm looking forward to the next tournaments covered by Jomez/CCDG.
dorseymatt
Eagle Member
Agree with all of that, but camera operators not getting out of the way of a disc in time is extremely rare--and it should be. This incident with Weese's shot happened in a particular context, with an inexperienced camera crew. It's unfortunate.
I agree that it is rare and should be. But I do not agree that Weese's shot in particular had anything to do with an inexperienced camera crew.
dorseymatt
Eagle Member
I feel like this is a pretty silly take. It's one thing if it's a freak occurence and it's simply impossible to get out of the way in time. I don't think this was that.
dorseymatt
Eagle Member
Maybe you're right. My bet is it played a factor. I guess it doesn't really matter though.
So you're saying that he intentionally stood his ground and let the disc hit him? Because if it's not a freak occurrence and impossible (though I'd categorize it more as difficult) to get out of the way, doesn't that imply that he made a choice? I don't think he chose to let the disc hit him, and given his druthers, it wouldn't have happened. If we're assigning fault for this rather than calling it a freak occurrence that couldn't be helped, I think fault should be split 50/50 with Weese then. She didn't have to throw it there any more than he didn't have to stand there.
biscoe
* Ace Member *
Are there examples of it occurring with the experienced crews? honest question, not trying to pick at the camera guy.
dorseymatt
Eagle Member
I don't think he's a bad guy. I think he was probably an inexperienced camera operator, at least in the milieu of disc golf. I would imagine that in the future he's going to be more aware of where players may be throwing the discs, and be more prepared to start getting out of the way sooner. Just like with the live coverage and post-round production, it seems like the whole crew would have been better off covering a C-tier or something first before doing the Memorial.
From looking at the names in the credits, I think some of these guys were Phoenix area freelance videographers that were hired for just the Memorial. If that's the case, we will see a new set of camera men for Waco.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
Apparently I'm weird. Unless I'm at a baseball game when any item comes flying at me I try and get out of the way, period. The notion that because some guy was inexperienced in disc golf means he doesn't try and have a disc miss him seems spurious.
And of course, I always love the "it's the spectator's, videographer's, water bottle's, guy in the chair's, etc. fault that the player threw their disc OB and hit them."
Unless the player has chosen a route that takes them over OB, the player made a mistake. That is the root of the problem.
And of course, I always love the "it's the spectator's, videographer's, water bottle's, guy in the chair's, etc. fault that the player threw their disc OB and hit them."
Unless the player has chosen a route that takes them over OB, the player made a mistake. That is the root of the problem.
wims
Double Eagle Member
The youtube post production product is embarrassingly bad
Not knowing how experienced any given camera person is, I have no idea how to determine whether experience makes a difference in avoiding getting hit. Maybe experience enables camera people to set up in less risky spots, but I really don't think experience will make them more nimble or faster on the draw to escape an incoming disc.
This guy that Weese hit was standing in the OB area, so it's not like he was in the middle of the fairway. He was probably where he was instructed to be on that hole. And as has been pointed out, perspective when looking through the viewfinder can be disorienting when it comes to things moving toward you.
I think the biggest thing about the incident that leads me to not blame the camera person regardless of any experience factor is that the disc skipped. It's one thing to see the disc coming and be able to move out of its way when it is on a clear and predictable trajectory. A skipping disc is different. It could skip high, it could skip low, it could skip straight, it could go left or right at a variety of different angles. He could have attempted to move and wound up moving right into the path of the disc when standing still would have meant it missed him. He has no way of knowing that in the moment.
slowplastic
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2014
- Messages
- 6,254
When watching CCDG/Jomez many times I think about how they put in extras that really aren't necessary and must take so much extra time...like extra slow-mo's, MPH on some videos, flight trackers, graphics transitions, etc. It really polishes the product but really it's all bonus and not necessary for me to enjoy watching the tourneys.
In contrast, I didn't even watch the first couple rounds of this post production because the shaky zoom made me feel ill. I watched the final 2 MPO rounds but I have to admit it was a slog. The basics were not correct...non-disc golfers I assume were filming because there were terrible angles on so many throws, unnecessary zoom, etc. Colors were really poor, I could barely see discs in flight often. Terrible angles when putting, I didn't even see some putts after they left the hand or they were so zoomed in that it made the distance seem flat. I assume it was the zoom that messed with that depth perception problem. It made it just not enjoyable to watch. Plus there were tons of little oversights/errors in scoring or missed shots. That happens and is irritating but not a deal breaker for me. But on a base level the footage and angles just made it not fun for me to get through, I really hope next time they have some test footage for the filmers before the real thing.
I did really like the post-hole graphics they used to show each player's lines and shot numbers on the hole. But not having info during a hole made me miss the scores and hole stats all the time while they were playing. I'm just so used to that info on the screen now, been spoiled with that.
In contrast, I didn't even watch the first couple rounds of this post production because the shaky zoom made me feel ill. I watched the final 2 MPO rounds but I have to admit it was a slog. The basics were not correct...non-disc golfers I assume were filming because there were terrible angles on so many throws, unnecessary zoom, etc. Colors were really poor, I could barely see discs in flight often. Terrible angles when putting, I didn't even see some putts after they left the hand or they were so zoomed in that it made the distance seem flat. I assume it was the zoom that messed with that depth perception problem. It made it just not enjoyable to watch. Plus there were tons of little oversights/errors in scoring or missed shots. That happens and is irritating but not a deal breaker for me. But on a base level the footage and angles just made it not fun for me to get through, I really hope next time they have some test footage for the filmers before the real thing.
I did really like the post-hole graphics they used to show each player's lines and shot numbers on the hole. But not having info during a hole made me miss the scores and hole stats all the time while they were playing. I'm just so used to that info on the screen now, been spoiled with that.
Lazerface
Eagle Member
Firstly, a substantial % of the shots at both courses "fly over OB" so ALL CAMERA OPERATORS should be aware of where they are and be able to anticipate possible interference - especially when they are positioned at the very end of the flight like this case.
Jessica could of asked him to move ahead of time, so I do think it ultimately falls on her. That said, when I watch it back I do believe the camera guy should of been able to get out of the way. I feel pretty confident in saying nobody in an experienced disc golf film crew would of been hit by that disc. It's all speculation, but that's how I feel. Jessica did not seem sour about it at all and handled it like a champ, which says something about her.
It was a mistake, but an avoidable one IMO - by BOTH parties.
Jessica could of asked him to move ahead of time, so I do think it ultimately falls on her. That said, when I watch it back I do believe the camera guy should of been able to get out of the way. I feel pretty confident in saying nobody in an experienced disc golf film crew would of been hit by that disc. It's all speculation, but that's how I feel. Jessica did not seem sour about it at all and handled it like a champ, which says something about her.
It was a mistake, but an avoidable one IMO - by BOTH parties.
