Pro Tour Live Coverage

[JC17393]

Here's the feedback:

WOW good thing he moved so he didn't get hit and cost Jessica two strokes!

And guess what? HE DID MISS THE SHOT lol. What are we focusing on? That should tell you what people care about. Hint it's not the shot being missed.

I for the life of me can't understand this take. We are there to capture the action, not affect it. He was also in just a plain bad spot. You want to be beyond the basket to avoid 90-180 degree pan.

Inexperienced (when it comes to dg) camera dudes (that don't play disc golf), and this is what happens.

If you want to say the guy was in a bad position from a filming perspective, I won't argue. That doesn't change the fact that getting out of the way of the disc is not a simple and easy thing to do regardless of whether or not he should have been standing there. Ideally, you never want to see anyone get hit by a disc...camera person, spectator, other players, caddies, etc...but it happens. It's unfortunate every time it does happen, but it happens and I don't think whether the person being hit has 1000s of rounds of disc golf experience or none makes any difference. The result is the same either way.

Wanna hear another story?

Cat is lining up a putt, and the camera guy is right in her view, moving around. She asks him to move, he won't. Paige sees this and goes over to talk to him, telling him to move. Explaining that we give preference to the people playing on higher number holes. He asks Paige if he's OB for the hole Cat is on. She tells him his is, but that it's not the point. He refuses to move, Paige gives up.

That's some bull ****. I hope the TD and Steve Dodge were informed on that one. Though I don't understand the argument about higher numbered holes. I know the custom that is being cited, but that's for players and who has priority if their play takes them close to one another, not necessarily camera people or spectators. It's basic courtesy to not be a distraction to anyone around you regardless of the hole you're playing or watching or filming. OB lines aren't magical barriers either. That's a lame argument for the guy to make.

 

[lyleoross]

Here's the feedback:

WOW good thing he moved so he didn't get hit and cost Jessica two strokes!

And guess what? HE DID MISS THE SHOT lol. What are we focusing on? That should tell you what people care about. Hint it's not the shot being missed.

I for the life of me can't understand this take. We are there to capture the action, not affect it. He was also in just a plain bad spot. You want to be beyond the basket to avoid 90-180 degree pan.

Inexperienced (when it comes to dg) camera dudes (that don't play disc golf), and this is what happens.

Wanna hear another story?

Cat is lining up a putt, and the camera guy is right in her view, moving around. She asks him to move, he won't. Paige sees this and goes over to talk to him, telling him to move. Explaining that we give preference to the people playing on higher number holes. He asks Paige if he's OB for the hole Cat is on. She tells him his is, but that it's not the point. He refuses to move, Paige gives up.

This is a better testament to the problem than hitting someone OB. It suggests an endemic problem and a general dickwad move. Even if you understand nothing about what's going on, you should have manners.

But it is still important to separate a player mistake from being mad at a cameraman or spectator for being hit when they are not IB. It turns out that throwing OB is still on the player, even if the camera person is a jerk.

 

[dorseymatt]

I'll have to watch it again, but I didn't feel like her shot was really a mistake. Or much of one. It seemed like a legitimate line. My recollection could be wrong, though.

 

[teemkey]

I think Ian's making the argument for experience.

How discs fly/skip/roll;
What line a specific pro might take;
What errors are most likely;
What disc flights look like through a viewfinder;
Where to stand for best shot without interfering.

And let's not forget JV was switching between cameras, and he is experienced.

 

[cheesethin]

hopefully they aren't going to be "starting over" with a new crew at each event... that would not bode well.

In an interview Steve Dodge said he was expecting to keep 4 same camera people throughout season PLUS 2 new local camera crew at each tournament.

Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk

 

[lyleoross]

I'll have to watch it again, but I didn't feel like her shot was really a mistake. Or much of one. It seemed like a legitimate line. My recollection could be wrong, though.

I guess I don't understand this. If your disc winds up OB, it went OB. Even if it is a little or at the end of a long throw. It's still OB. The other three players didn't end up there, IIRC. What hole was it?

 

[dorseymatt]

I guess I don't understand this. If your disc winds up OB, it went OB. Even if it is a little or at the end of a long throw. It's still OB. The other three players didn't end up there, IIRC. What hole was it?

I don't know which hole it was off hand. I guess I'm having a hard time understanding why you have this take (especially if you haven't seen the shot in question). Seems strangely, unnecessarily black-and-white. Again, without the camera guy's interference, that disc gets back in, almost certainly. It all happens very close to the OB line.

 

[cheesethin]

Also FPO R4, on hole 6, Jessica Weese throws, and the camera guy fails to get out of the way in time, causing the disc to hit him and not skip back in bounds. It almost certainly would have been safe.

I guess I don't understand this. If your disc winds up OB, it went OB. Even if it is a little or at the end of a long throw. It's still OB. The other three players didn't end up there, IIRC. What hole was it?

This is what is being discussed (I think)

 

[_MTL_]

Though I don't understand the argument about higher numbered holes. I know the custom that is being cited, but that's for players and who has priority if their play takes them close to one another

It's also worth noting that there is nothing in the rules about this. It's just a common understanding, but absolutely nothing required in the rules.

I've actually been called on a courtesy violation for not following this. I protested it and won as the TD agreed.

 

[dorseymatt]

Just rewatched—it was hole 6 by the way. My memory was a bit off, it turns out. It was a worse shot than I remembered, but it also looked even easier to avoid than I had remembered. She should not have challenged OB as much as she did there, but the camera operator absolutely had time to get out of the way. I remain convinced it would have gotten back in bounds.

 

[Timthenchant3r]

It's also worth noting that there is nothing in the rules about this. It's just a common understanding, but absolutely nothing required in the rules.

I've actually been called on a courtesy violation for not following this. I protested it and won as the TD agreed.

I assume that it is to keep the flow of play going better? People in front should go quicker as to not cause a backup. Obviously, this is situational and I'm not sure how it pertains to the camera guy either.

 

[_MTL_]

I assume that it is to keep the flow of play going better? People in front should go quicker as to not cause a backup. Obviously, this is situational and I'm not sure how it pertains to the camera guy either.

It's just one of those "unspoken rules."

To me is makes absolutely zero sense as a blanket statement for so many reasons.

 

[davetherocketguy]

The more I read from royal the more I am changing my mind...

It is my literal worst nightmare to be hit,

Now this I can relate to. In college I was a sports photographer for the student newspaper. There was literally nothing worse in the world in my mind to be a negative part of the sporting event. The last thing I ever wanted was to be the reason a player stumbled on the court or interfere in some way even if I was outside of the field of play. Even with sports I was unfamiliar with I would ALWAYS make sure I would at the very least watch a practice or even an entire game prior to covering it just so I had a good understanding of where the action was so I could best cover it and avoid it at the same time.

A vidographer here is no different. The more I think about it, the more inexcusable it is to me to be in the way or get hit. These camera operators ought to know better even if they've never played the game. It's part of being a journalist. Know the topic you are covering and know it well. Even if you are OB and there is no chance the disc is ever coming back in bounds why be a factor in the game? If you are a factor in any way its just rude, ignorant and a bad look...

 

[XC_Eddy]

The Jessica Weese shot in question happens at about 15:00 into the video. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Bi4bqEJ5BBg

That camera man easily could have gotten out of the way and made very little effort to do so. It was clearly coming towards him. All he had to do was take a couple steps back. He's also hardly OB, right on the line. He wasn't way out of the line of play or anything. On a narrow fairway like that it's perfectly reasonable to expect players to challenge the OB. Weese probably turned it over a little more than intended, but it's not like it was shank. Jessica yells at him to "watch out!" He kinda half jumps, but really should have taken a step or two out of the way. Much more his fault than Jessica's

The worst thing media can do is affect the outcome of a shot. This is totally inexcusable and likely a result of this camera operator not having experience reading the flight of a disc. It's not an accident that the one time a CCDG crewmember got hit was during his first time filming dg. Nor is an accident that it happened during the first DGPT event with first time camera operators. It sounds like there will be some repeat camera crew, but that least some of the crew will be new every time. That means more bad camera work and more of this interference bull****. Totally unprofessional and not something that the players should have to put up with.

I bet we see at 2 more DGPT camera crew get hit this year because they don't know what they are doing.

 

[brutalbrutus]

For the people saying its difficult to evade discs when filming....

In 8+ years of filming a CCDG crew has been hit exactly once, and it was that guys first time filming dg. Jomez has never been hit to my knowledge.


This is correct.

A friend of mine was spotting on no5 at Idlewild in 2017 and swears the "Never been hit guy" got drilled square in the chest by a Drew Gibson roller.



I remember watching the vid to see it happen... but for "some reason" the B cam footage is missing on that shot...16:40 mark is where they start teeing off on the hole...

 

[XC_Eddy]

A friend of mine was spotting on no5 at Idlewild in 2017 and swears the "Never been hit guy" got drilled square in the chest by a Drew Gibson roller.



I remember watching the vid to see it happen... but for "some reason" the B cam footage is missing on that shot...16:40 mark is where they start teeing off on the hole...

You may be on to something here. The Gibson roller is at 17:45. They show catch cam for all three other tee shots. Drew's second shot is near where the catch cam guy was. I'm all in on this conspiracy.

I will say, he usually does an excellent job of dodging.

 

[VLaForce2002]

The trade off is, he's the worst guts player (j/k)

 

[biscoe]

It's just one of those "unspoken rules."

To me is makes absolutely zero sense as a blanket statement for so many reasons.

It makes perfect sense for one gigantic reason- no one needs to waste time debating or deciding.

 

[cheesethin]

A friend of mine was spotting on no5 at Idlewild in 2017 and swears the "Never been hit guy" got drilled square in the chest by a Drew Gibson roller.



I remember watching the vid to see it happen... but for "some reason" the B cam footage is missing on that shot...16:40 mark is where they start teeing off on the hole...

On the recent Jomez video AMA, their catch cam guy Michael says he's been hit once, in a Final 9 somewhere, by a Danny Lindahl shot, and that's it.

 

[wolfmandragon]

...

Cat is lining up a putt, and the camera guy is right in her view, moving around. She asks him to move, he won't. Paige sees this and goes over to talk to him, telling him to move. Explaining that we give preference to the people playing on higher number holes. He asks Paige if he's OB for the hole Cat is on. She tells him his is, but that it's not the point. He refuses to move, Paige gives up.

I have seen Marty refuse to move for a player putting as well.... and it was the player he was filming. The player was angry and missed his short putt. I think that putt cost said player a couple hundred dollars.

Not the first jackwagon to flim a card.