It sounds like you think too much out on the course, lol. Just throw the disc. All kidding aside, I highly doubt anyone takes all of these variables into play when out on the course.
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Brodie Smith PDGA #128378
- Thread starter DiscFifty
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It sounds like you think too much out on the course, lol. Just throw the disc. All kidding aside, I highly doubt anyone takes all of these variables into play when out on the course.
Consistently? 3-8, and 10-11. 12-13 are kinda parcel with 3-4 - more as a thought of "what kind of ground am I landing on..."
glassila
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I disagree. I think the majority of experienced players take all these factors into consideration on every throw.
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Ru4's list is straight up truth.
I definitely take the condition of the ground where I expect to land into consideration, and plan my shot accordingly. Hard packed ground that will always skip vs thick grass that grabs, vs grab that might allow a decent skip.
Do I want a skip or do I need to avoid skip?
What about the angle of the ground and potential for rollaway? How does my disc need to land to get the desired ground action?
I don't necessarily go through the list one at a time on every single shot, but I always assess the situation to determine which variables I need to consider on that given shot. Some courses require much more of that than others.
Flat, park style courses with fairly thick grass don't require you to run through all those variables except on maybe a few shots. On the other hand, DeLaveaga seemed to require that sort of analysis on damned near every single shot. That's one of the things that makes it such a demanding a course.
I definitely take the condition of the ground where I expect to land into consideration, and plan my shot accordingly. Hard packed ground that will always skip vs thick grass that grabs, vs grab that might allow a decent skip.
Do I want a skip or do I need to avoid skip?
What about the angle of the ground and potential for rollaway? How does my disc need to land to get the desired ground action?
I don't necessarily go through the list one at a time on every single shot, but I always assess the situation to determine which variables I need to consider on that given shot. Some courses require much more of that than others.
Flat, park style courses with fairly thick grass don't require you to run through all those variables except on maybe a few shots. On the other hand, DeLaveaga seemed to require that sort of analysis on damned near every single shot. That's one of the things that makes it such a demanding a course.
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Define experienced. I play with some guys who have been in the game 20+ years with decent ratings, and have never heard these variables mentioned, except when the situation called for it. Sun and shade? Sounds like grandmasters golf, lol. I'm not discounting these variables and maybe I just subconsciously take this into account, but by no means is it a checklist.
For some it is definitely subconscious. Especially if you're playing at a course you've played before.
I think a running checklist of variables and visualizing your shot is an axiom of sports.
I suppose I could just head out to a course four days a week and just chuck every disc in the general direction of the basket, but I am there to challenge myself. I don't randomly pick a disc, I formulate a plan and choose a disc based on my plan. The list provided was most certainly an abridged version for disc landings. There are dozens more variable to consider with every shot, outside of the landing. This concept is crucial in the approach game. Have you ever considered the wind before throwing? Trees?
Sun/shade could easily have an effect on ground softness or moisture, impacting how a disc first reacts with ground strike.
Maybe we should have more YouTubes on course and game management to go along with the millions on how to throw 500'.
Yes, sun/shade is often a grandmaster consideration, but explaining that could take years.
I completely agree that all these factors ultimately have an impact on the final outcome of the shot. What I was trying to say is I believe very few, if any, players are good enough to control these variables. You can't tell me you are good enough to hit an exact spot on a green from 300 feet out.
Btw, I am in my mid 50's so understand the sun/shade thing completely, lol.
Hampstead
* Ace Member *
Point is, for experienced players and those who pay attention, there's a lot more to a shot than simply "Overstable discs finish left", etc.
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You can't control them, but you can anticipate and account for them... and plan your shot accordingly.
Do we hit our intended landing spot every time? Enter skill and consistency. I sure as hell don't, but the 1050 boys do way more often than they don't.
But that doesn't mean that I don't plan to. I assess the situation in front of me, and plan a shot I think will maximize my benefit and minimize my risk, given my skill set.
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klodkrawler05
Birdie Member
One of the early Brodie videos with Mcbeth when they were out on course Mcbeth was explaining why he'd choose a BH over a FH for a particular approach and it came down to the type of surface they were landing on and the direction the disc was spinning when it touched the ground.
Anyone who thinks the pros aren't putting any more thought into the disc selection than "stable disc goes left, less stable disc goes less left" isn't actually paying attention.
I thought "gravity" last weekend was another good pro shot example, the play seems like it'd be a simple BH shot with a stable disc down the right side of the fairway and then swing left at the basket and use the hill as a backstop. Takes the one and only guardian tree out of play. Except the pros were actually just throwing straight discs at it, trying to just miss the tree left, then use the hill side for an anti skip to scrub off the rest of their speed and sit softly. Compared to the Am play spiking a hyzer into the hill and have the potential to roll away.
That's the most recent example I can think of, but OTB had a few examples too where they'd throw dumb hyzer BH's with a beefy fairway driver on one 290' hole and then the very next 375' hole they'd throw a putter off the tee because they needed to control the ground action better.
Anyone who thinks the pros aren't putting any more thought into the disc selection than "stable disc goes left, less stable disc goes less left" isn't actually paying attention.
I thought "gravity" last weekend was another good pro shot example, the play seems like it'd be a simple BH shot with a stable disc down the right side of the fairway and then swing left at the basket and use the hill as a backstop. Takes the one and only guardian tree out of play. Except the pros were actually just throwing straight discs at it, trying to just miss the tree left, then use the hill side for an anti skip to scrub off the rest of their speed and sit softly. Compared to the Am play spiking a hyzer into the hill and have the potential to roll away.
That's the most recent example I can think of, but OTB had a few examples too where they'd throw dumb hyzer BH's with a beefy fairway driver on one 290' hole and then the very next 375' hole they'd throw a putter off the tee because they needed to control the ground action better.
I mean, we actually agree.
I have a hole at one course that is about 500'. I can't get there, but I accurately get out to 270 or so in the fairway. Leaves about 230' to the pin. I would usually work a midrange to the basket. But this green is a sharp downhill slope, the close left is poison ivy (no interest in going there, but a putt is available). The green is hard pack dirt and is wide open in the sun, ensuring NOTHING with stick.
I could throw a midrange hyzer.....landing 40' short and hope for a nice slide, but short of the green is pretty sticky grass.
I used to throw a Blowfly Blunt at this pin. Nice and sticky midrange, I don't bag it anymore. Now I pull out an ESP Chally and throw a nice high, lofty straight putter at the pin. I gives me the best chance to land flat, minimize skip and slide. Do I run through that list every time I play the hole....naw. I play the course enough to know. But, in a tournament, I will walk through the best scenario for each throw and try to make smart decisions based on the information.
Seems like this is what I often do walking to my next shot. I frequently have a semi plan made by the time I get to my disc.
And this is a big difference between ok players and great players. Not saying Im great but I take all of those factors into consideration on every throw. Theres not too much thought to it either, its just natural to me.
The big thing is that the thought comes into play in the pre-shot routine. You're not "overthinking" things, you're thinking things through. When you're actually in the midst of the throw you throw the shot you know to achieve the desired result. The overthinking comes when you're still thinking about variables when you actually throw the disc.
glassila
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For good athletes in all sports the brain factors dozens of variables instantly, "without thinking". It doesn't go through a "check list"...it just happens.
What kind of grass?
Recently mowed?
How much grass?
Type of soil?
Wind?
Type of plastic?
Landing angle?
Landing topography?
Shade or sun?
Wet or dry grass?
Wet or dry soil?
Roots?
Rocks?
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A lot of those are pretty redundant and just fluffing up a list.
I mean, you basically just need to know what kind of ground play you get. You don't need to know when the grass was mowed and where the blade was set on the mower.
I mean, you basically just need to know what kind of ground play you get. You don't need to know when the grass was mowed and where the blade was set on the mower.
You shouldn't assume anything. I'm ok where my game/rating are and don't wish to get into a peeing contest, lol. I don't assume I am better than you, please grant me the same respect.
Please dont read things into my responses that arent there. Never did I state that I was better than your nor did I infer that. Im also not trying to get into a pissing contest with anybody. Never did I assume Im better than you and vice versa. Please do a better job of fully reading posts before replying to them. If there has been any disrespect is has come by your hand.
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I ask the park staff what the mower blade height was set to before every single throw.
Then figure out if the price of gas may have affected how often they mow. :|
Finally, I consult my horoscope and biorhythm.
Please do a better job at wording your responses. When you start with the separating good from great stuff, it leans toward you thinking you are aiming toward great. For me it is still a fun game, I have no pretenses of being anything more than I am, which I think is better than alot.
You have your process, I have mine. It is what it is. Peace.
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