wims
Double Eagle Member
Too stiff to meet the standards? What does that even mean? Are there rules regulating how stiff a disc can be, and if so, why?
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[Gateway] Gateway Wizard
- Thread starter Fosterjon35
- Start date
Yes, and I don't know.
SD86
Banned
Yes there are rules, i.e. criteria, for stiffness. Why? Probably for the same reasons they place limits on golf ball construction and composition...
Wasn't there an innova conspiracy theory involved with this?
Snap-it
* Ace Member *
minimal flexibility std, for safety reasons, see pdga
DougCrawford
Double Eagle Member
Hmm. I think a rock hard putter would still do less damage to a person than a slightly flexible speed 13 driver.
Snap-it
* Ace Member *
So do I, and also consider wing sharpness...that can carve right through the jugular at high speed. But...
The "PDGA is pro innova"conspiracy goes as such (i have no opinion on its validity)
KC pro has been made just has hard (specifically 11x era) by innova. Why is it that gateway was asked to stop making plastic that stiff when innova had been doing it?
The counter argument to the conspiracy is that innova did soften up 11x era kc pro, and has made it softer ever since. So it isn't that unlikely that they were asked to stop making kc that stiff, it just wasn't publicly disseminated.
Well there is a wing sharpness requirement by the PDGA too. Weather or not that requirement is adequate for safety reasons is debateable.
Actually the discs Gateway really threw a fit about were the Champ Firebirds that were out as the same time as the G9i Wizards. They couldn't pass a flex test, either. Again, no idea if the PDGA said anything to Innova about those or not.
I really didn't care so much about the G9i's, but I really miss medium Wizards. I've had to switch to the soft Wizards, which...it might be me but when a soft is new it's fine in terms of being firm, but they beat in and get softer. I hate soft putters. I really can't beat up a Wizard anymore.
Hopefully the beat up mediums I have will last me.
tbird888
Salient Disc Test Team
Supposedly Gateway sent G9is to the IDGC to stock on shelves, and they fondled them, found they were really firm (they are, and they're glorious), and decided to test them. Apparently Innova didn't send any of those offending Firebirds to the IDGC so the PDGA can plead ignorance.
What really is troublesome is that if they were really that stiff, the PDGA didn't make them illegal for competition despite the fact that they didn't pass the established standards.
What really is troublesome is that if they were really that stiff, the PDGA didn't make them illegal for competition despite the fact that they didn't pass the established standards.
notroman
* Ace Member *
Actually the discs Gateway really threw a fit about were the Champ Firebirds that were out as the same time as the G9i Wizards. They couldn't pass a flex test, either. Again, no idea if the PDGA said anything to Innova about those or not.
I really didn't care so much about the G9i's, but I really miss medium Wizards. I've had to switch to the soft Wizards, which...it might be me but when a soft is new it's fine in terms of being firm, but they beat in and get softer. I hate soft putters. I really can't beat up a Wizard anymore.
You can still find Soft Wizards that retain their stiffness. I'm not sure how to tell them apart when they are new, but I know I have a couple that are still very firm after a year of use. I had to actually take one out of the bag during the winter because it was too stiff/slick in the cold.
thunder3boy
Par Member
If you want more stiff wizards, go to RDG and get some fossil or fossil fuel ones. They're amazing...
@iDiscGolf
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Dec 1, 2013
- Messages
- 3,805
Might break the tree. But the disc will be fine...
That would have been a pretty empty ban since it would have been impossible to enforce. I think they did the most reasonable thing by just getting them out of the market and not worrying about the ones that are out there. They can't test every disc, and the flex test I'm sure is the most often flunked PDGA technical standard. There are millions of golf discs over the last 30 years that have been sold with "PDGA approved" on them that would have flunked the flex test. A couple hundred Wizards? No sweat.
I think the PDGA has for a long time has done this same thing with questionable plastic mixes. Case in point: Cam Todd Challengers. Everybody loved them. They could have sold a boatload of them whenever they wanted to. Why did that plastic disappear? Maybe for the same reason the G9i plastic disappeared and Discraft just never said anything publicly about it. I seriously doubt a Cam Todd Challenger could pass the flex test. Same with the 10X Kc Pro plastic. Why did it get softer during the 11X run? Why didn't Innova go back to the harder plastic when everyone hated the later 11X runs? Maybe the PDGA had something to do with that.
Or not. Hard to tell. It is possible, though.
Lurp Nuts
* Ace Member *
Ouch guys, reopening old wounds here.
DougCrawford
Double Eagle Member
When did all this happen? I just bought my first g9i wizard last week
Fossil is a perfect putter plastic. I have Scales in that plastic and I'm sure Fossil Wizards are great. I'd have to order those, though. You don't see them around. You can't kick a dead cat without finding a soft Wizard under it in this area so I have tons of them. They are OK, I can make due. Kinda hard to get a really cheap guy like me to special order something online when you have an OK alternative laying around.
When they made mediums, those were lying around as often as the softs. That was nice.
I think it was 2014 sometime. They have not run the G9i's in a while, but you can still get them.
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