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2014 Am Worlds...Minneapolis
- Thread starter AndyJB
- Start date
I realize that my posts may seem whiny, but when it comes to the player's pack, I believe I hold a different opinion than you may assume. I would gladly forfeit most of my player's pack (I would still want a shirt and mini or something small) if I could be assured that the money which would have gone to the player's pack were to be invested in the courses. I would be happy to go without my Buzzz OS, JLS, Teebird, and whatever else was in the pack if I didn't have to see a dozen spit outs on the ancient Mach III baskets which were installed in many of the courses. The issue isn't that the player's packs were small, the issue is that the event was very costly, and the money didn't seem to be put to any good use.
gcr_russell
* Ace Member *
How many events do you play that last longer than 1 or 2 days and have to deal with the logistics of accommodating such an enormous field? Please everyone get a sense of perspective. Jiminy Christmas.
the conversations I heard at the final 9 were what was laughable. Mostly whining and complaining like a bunch of entitled special people who didn't realize for a minute they were at a amateur tournament for disc golf. Very ignorant and unappreciative.
It was pretty unreal but all in all most people seemed to be having a blast-- the younger kids especially'
It was pretty unreal but all in all most people seemed to be having a blast-- the younger kids especially'
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Kenwood is a school course and the focus course for the juniors plus the older women. The event is not only about the Advanced players. Hole 2a was an example of how to do an island hole properly to challenge all skill levels fairly since it's been botched by several TDs around the country. You might not do a hole like that for daily play. But just like the first hole at the USDGC that's 234 ft, the pressure is on when they announce your name and the hole plays tougher than it should. Haven't seen all of the stats yet but reports of 2 or 3 Advanced players in a group missing the island were common. It's kind of like the short program for skating at the Olympics, you have to demonstrate your basic skills on queue. It also was a popular ace opportunity for some divisions who don't have as many ace runs during the event. After the round on Friday, there was a line of more than dozen players emptying their bags trying to get an ace and doing it multiple times.
Hole 2b was a classic USDGC style hole as an immediate contrast to 2a. A corridor with OB on both sides and an option to cross it for risk/reward. It was a smaller stylistic version of hole 5 at the USDGC without the risk of losing your disc in the water. Definitely a thinking player's hole (school course again). Scores ranged from 2 to 10 (triple circle) on that hole but a 5 is about the highest you should take on that hole if you play sensibly and can throw at least 200 feet with moderate accuracy. Even the 7-year old rolled the heck out of that hole and did better than she did on some of the wooded holes.
Hole 2b was a classic USDGC style hole as an immediate contrast to 2a. A corridor with OB on both sides and an option to cross it for risk/reward. It was a smaller stylistic version of hole 5 at the USDGC without the risk of losing your disc in the water. Definitely a thinking player's hole (school course again). Scores ranged from 2 to 10 (triple circle) on that hole but a 5 is about the highest you should take on that hole if you play sensibly and can throw at least 200 feet with moderate accuracy. Even the 7-year old rolled the heck out of that hole and did better than she did on some of the wooded holes.
This is more than whiney, it is simply irresponsible. I don't believe you have any idea of the costs, expenses or related organizational needs that involved the money. Stick to the entitlement, accusations are uncalled for.
Just another P.O.S disc golfer making unfounded accusations online.
Perhaps last year with the Ranger bags and 8 discs or however many spoiled people?
I'll stop trying to back up my points now since everyone has resorted to insulting my skill level instead of addressing my points. My final point that I will make is that the only people I have seen defending those who ran the event are individuals who were not in attendance. I do not claim to know what it takes to run an event such as this, nor am I proposing that I run the next worlds. However, I have played a number of tournaments, and I will say that this was not one of my favorites.
Feel free to "back up your point" that someone lined their pockets with the money. I didn't insult your skill level, I insulted your morality. You are calling someone a thief online because you didn't like the way the tournament was run. It's a weak-minded, sh#tty thing to do.
UCF_Knight
Birdie Member
^^^THIS!
The first ever, to my knowledge, trophy only am worlds had an insane players pack. The second trophy only am worlds the very next year has a players pack that is equivalent to that of all the worlds in the past where there was a payout. What are people supposed to think? Regardless of what is deserved, standard in other sports or reasonable, the value of this years worlds seemed substantially less than last years. The other issue is the lack of communication on payouts. There was never, to my knowledge, an official statement from the TD or PDGA as to the existence or not of payout for this event. The bar seemed to have been set in 2013 on both transparency about it being trophy only and quality of players pack and this year the costs were similar and both players pack and communication were not even close.
I went for the experience and competition and got every drop of challenge I expected from both competitors and the courses so players packs were not my worry but I was surprised, in a bad way, after talking to people who came back from Emporia last year. In general the reviews from last year were through the roof in every category, going into my first worlds this year after hearing about last year I was basically just unimpressed.
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nah, most people know that the ranger bag was an accident. i think people expected more cause there was no payout. when the players pack was less than a typical worlds with a payout thats what got under peoples skin.
welcome to disc golf where players packs have been apart of the sport longer than you have. this is a unique sport with its own style, its apart of its allure. why homogenize it?
additionally, value doesn''t just mean monetary worth.
also, ad hominem arguments are no good.
WhiteyBear
Eagle Member
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- Jan 17, 2012
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- 878
replied....
WhiteyBear
Eagle Member
- Joined
- Jan 17, 2012
- Messages
- 878
Deciding the value of an experience based on players pcks negates the actual game of DG in it's entirey. Players are stating that they'd rather pay for plastic than playing, and expect to "play for free".
No thanks, that attitude is ridiculous. Part of the reason I like softball more than DG, I expect nothing in return of my fee except the right to play, which I thoroughly enjoy. I wish DG was more that way.
No thanks, that attitude is ridiculous. Part of the reason I like softball more than DG, I expect nothing in return of my fee except the right to play, which I thoroughly enjoy. I wish DG was more that way.
"why didn't they give full size baskets to every winner?! I would be so mad if I got one of those mini baskets..."
That one had me rolling.
That one had me rolling.
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- Mar 11, 2011
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I have been a course director at a worlds before so I know what kind of work and effort goes into an event of this size. Kudos to all of those who did put in the time. I do have some feedback on the event that I would like to share.
As course director during the 2012 worlds I was told by the TD that I needed to be onsite at my course several hours before tee time. Not only to prepare the course for the players but to be sure that no trees had fallen, directional signage was all still in place(not everyone gets to see or practice every course) and that no major problems had appeared on the course. The players would arrive to the course set up with Ice water in place, the board ready and the scorecards set waiting for them. This was required and expected by the TD and if I was going to volunteer for the position that was what I was getting into. Doing these things took more effort on my part and on the part of the other CDs however it did ensure that the players had as positive of an experience as possible in the morning pre-round and during their round. There were issues that came up during our event as well and things were not always perfect and they never are in this size of an event however these little things can go a long way in making an event seem more professional and keeping the majority of players happy.
My experience at this worlds was very different. I was asked to take tee-signs out to holes on the course one morning because the TDs didn't want/have time to. The board was very late arriving a few times to my pool(15min before an AM tee time) and I have heard that it was so late at other courses that it caused delayed tee offs. TDs had to run through courses to fix an easily foreseen problem with the starting holes because of the numbering at Kenwood. Also a group in my pool played the wrong tee-pad on a hole at The Valley because the sign telling them otherwise had been removed overnight and not replaced.
These were just a few examples that soured my experience at worlds. I know that this kind of a tournament is a big undertaking and takes more time and effort than most even realize but sometimes the little things like these examples, that with effort and organization can be avoided, can really put a damper on the experience for most. Even if it is complete chaos in some cases the illusion of organization and professionalism on the front can go a long way to keeping the participants in an event happy.
I felt that these examples and other things like them took away from the tournament for me and kind of left a bad taste in my mouth for lack of organization or foresight. I will probably give worlds another chance next year. I had a lot of fun meeting people from all over the country and playing courses that I'll likely never see again. How it goes next year will be a big difference maker on whether or not I do go after that.
As course director during the 2012 worlds I was told by the TD that I needed to be onsite at my course several hours before tee time. Not only to prepare the course for the players but to be sure that no trees had fallen, directional signage was all still in place(not everyone gets to see or practice every course) and that no major problems had appeared on the course. The players would arrive to the course set up with Ice water in place, the board ready and the scorecards set waiting for them. This was required and expected by the TD and if I was going to volunteer for the position that was what I was getting into. Doing these things took more effort on my part and on the part of the other CDs however it did ensure that the players had as positive of an experience as possible in the morning pre-round and during their round. There were issues that came up during our event as well and things were not always perfect and they never are in this size of an event however these little things can go a long way in making an event seem more professional and keeping the majority of players happy.
My experience at this worlds was very different. I was asked to take tee-signs out to holes on the course one morning because the TDs didn't want/have time to. The board was very late arriving a few times to my pool(15min before an AM tee time) and I have heard that it was so late at other courses that it caused delayed tee offs. TDs had to run through courses to fix an easily foreseen problem with the starting holes because of the numbering at Kenwood. Also a group in my pool played the wrong tee-pad on a hole at The Valley because the sign telling them otherwise had been removed overnight and not replaced.
These were just a few examples that soured my experience at worlds. I know that this kind of a tournament is a big undertaking and takes more time and effort than most even realize but sometimes the little things like these examples, that with effort and organization can be avoided, can really put a damper on the experience for most. Even if it is complete chaos in some cases the illusion of organization and professionalism on the front can go a long way to keeping the participants in an event happy.
I felt that these examples and other things like them took away from the tournament for me and kind of left a bad taste in my mouth for lack of organization or foresight. I will probably give worlds another chance next year. I had a lot of fun meeting people from all over the country and playing courses that I'll likely never see again. How it goes next year will be a big difference maker on whether or not I do go after that.
I played this year and have no gripes about the players pack. I love the shirt, the Buzzz OS is sweet, as is the TeeBird, and the other discs I'll sell for $5 at my local course to the chuckers.
I do agree that the overall feel of the event was "unorganized" and it pales in comparison to my experience last year in Emporia, but I still had fun.
I don't understand all the whining about the water - and don't bother explaining it to me because you're whining about *free water*. I also don't understand the whining about not playing BRP - you had ample opportunity to play it throughout the week and if we had played it, there would have been sooooo much complaining that we were being forced to drive an hour north to play. At least, I would have complained...
And whomever said that the final round at Kaposia was a pressure-cooker and let the cream rise to the top... you're right. I sucked it up big time that final round - I don't play very well when a camera crew is following me. I found myself yanking every backhand shot which I hadn't done all week. I did feel bad for Cody, though. He's a fantastic player and a super-nice guy, but both rounds the camera crew followed him, he struggled.
I do agree that the overall feel of the event was "unorganized" and it pales in comparison to my experience last year in Emporia, but I still had fun.
I don't understand all the whining about the water - and don't bother explaining it to me because you're whining about *free water*. I also don't understand the whining about not playing BRP - you had ample opportunity to play it throughout the week and if we had played it, there would have been sooooo much complaining that we were being forced to drive an hour north to play. At least, I would have complained...
And whomever said that the final round at Kaposia was a pressure-cooker and let the cream rise to the top... you're right. I sucked it up big time that final round - I don't play very well when a camera crew is following me. I found myself yanking every backhand shot which I hadn't done all week. I did feel bad for Cody, though. He's a fantastic player and a super-nice guy, but both rounds the camera crew followed him, he struggled.
I guess I will use this reply to talk about my review for the tournament. I thought the tournament was a fantastic experience. I come from Houston, which virtually has no elevation on any courses, so this was a huge bit of excitement for me as the majority of courses that MA1 played had elevation. I enjoyed all of the courses that we played, and if I were to pick a favorite and a least favorite, I would say the Valley was my favorite and Oakwood was my least favorite.
Maybe ignorance is bliss, but I thought the player's pack was good. I have never played in a tournament higher than a B-Tier, and in those events, the player's pack has never been more than a tournament stamped disc, these tournaments run $40-$50 for MA2. So to give six discs plus all of the other stuff was well worth the $125.
I felt like each round was run smoothly. At the course, you would know where you were starting 45 minutes ahead of time. It sucks for the people that I guess this was not the case.
I never came to this tournament thinking about payout mainly because I know the previous year there was no payout. I would play and will play another world championship if I got the chance to. This left a good impression on me.
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I was really impressed with Bryant Lake and BRP. I thought both were very well done and well maintained and worth the Pay to play model.
Kaposia- seemed a little less maintained and like less of the money raised as pay to play went into the course. Also I hate that we did not play the normal layout. I felt that some of the combined holes were not as interesting as some of the holes I saw we weren't playing were. THe throws down walking paths concerned me but these may have been added post installation of the course. The layout we played and the condition of the course I felt it was a 3.5-4 course
The Valley- Was solid. I thought the hole that threw over another holes basket was a little poor for a worlds but it is what it is. The course overall was good would also rate it about a 3.5-4 range. On a side note I was amazed that with hole 11 that Advanced Women played this course. Seemed like a HUGE challenge for that field overall.
Oakwood- I thought this course was a pretty fun layout. It did have a few holes with some odd angles and gaps for the distance but they were not impossible. I probably had the most fun with this layout but it belongs n the 3-3.5 range
C.P. Adams- This one I thought was a little boring. A lot of par 4's that for advanced level play are a little too simple and would not provide much separation. The property provided gave a lot of opportunity for big bombs so I understand. Hole 12 felt as though it could use a tree or 2 gone to create a fair gap. It's already hard enough to get up that hill and hit that green but it seems you have to get lucky to do it. another 3- 3.5
Kenwood- I liked some of the holes here. Add me to the list of people who were not a fan of 2a but we all had to play it. I took my easy 2 and moved on. The course overall was pretty good. 3-3.5
The courses overall matched up to my expectations and were solid. Idk that Blue Ribbon would be in a top 10 position for me but it is defiantly a very solid layout and a very cool place to go. I really enjoyed my round at Bryant Lake as well. You can tell with the erosion control and built up greens that a lot of time and effort went in to both of these courses.
I enjoyed them for the most part. It's a very good DG scene you guys have up there.
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