Isn't World Dubs a Major as well?
You should avoid looking or watching that event for dress code PDGA violations. :thmbup:
In all honesty, the PRO tour has been looking very sharp as of late. That is the real focus anyway.
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2014 Am Worlds...Minneapolis
- Thread starter AndyJB
- Start date
Isn't World Dubs a Major as well?
You should avoid looking or watching that event for dress code PDGA violations. :thmbup:
In all honesty, the PRO tour has been looking very sharp as of late. That is the real focus anyway.
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2013
- Messages
- 4,230
How do you hold Worlds without playing the Blue Ribbon Pines course??? I heard from a friend that TD and CDs were amateur hour, showing up late for starts so players didn't even know what hole to start on. He said they dropped the ball the with course layouts and soft OB lines too. It seems like everyone there that had played in previous Worlds or big tourneys said it was one of the worst ever. "Growing the game" is such a joke if you can't even get Worlds done right.
DirtyMeathook
Birdie Member
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2013
- Messages
- 421
^^ I think about half the field play BRP, but I agree it should have been a priority to get everyone on it. Wasn't there but I am sure the majority of staff/volunteers were great. However, the guy who I assume was the TD, Chuck, was quite a character. One terrible joke after another, it was uncomfortable to listen to.
texhop58
Eagle Member
I have gone through 200 some odd post. Have I missed a post in which a pic
Of the player pack was posted. I saw a list of disc on page 42. If someone could direct me to post number would be helpful if there is one
Of the player pack was posted. I saw a list of disc on page 42. If someone could direct me to post number would be helpful if there is one
texhop58
Eagle Member
Nevermind found someone on the Facebook group that posted player pack. On a slightly related note. I know it's hard with the logistics. But it's too bad a player pack couldn't have a disc from each manufactor in it. Could you imagine a player pack with 7 or 8 companies working together. I would buy into that.
BRP is waaaaay out of the metro area. Total hassle for people to get to. I think they used it for a Doubles round before the actual tournament though.
I don't think Chuck was the TD of this event.
you have to be trollin or the easiest butt hurt bitch
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
I was not TD. I was involved with getting courses ready working with the Park Departments partly because 5 of the final 8 were ones where I was primary designer. We had to replace four courses (Hyland, Bethel, Lakewood, Acorn) with three other courses (Bryant, Lions, BRP) over the past two years from the original bid because upgrades wouldn't be done or they didn't want to be included. BRP was reluctant to be part of the regular Worlds rotation during peak season which required exclusive use of the course during those rounds, but agreed to the two rounds that were played by smaller divisions. They were happy to have players come check out their course with the informal doubles and the flex start league days that were set up.
Bryant Lake charges $10 per person per round for exclusive use of the course so it was only played three of the possible eight rounds. I suspect the same fee may have been charged if Hyland could have been played.
"Soft" OB (water edge or paint lines) were used sparingly. All OB was typically hard edged like grass/concrete or flag boundaries around water hazards or grass areas. Paint lines are falling out of favor for OB marking on grass borders for both cost, time, maintenance and fuzziness. Ball golf uses stakes but those are tougher to permanently use on disc golf courses due to vandalism.
Just a reminder that what's included in the player packs is directly related to what the manufacturers wish to provide and has little to do with the tournament hosts. Several sponsors prefer doing things like "win your card, win a disc" or supporting the event in other ways or not at all if it's not in their budget or marketing plans that year.
Bryant Lake charges $10 per person per round for exclusive use of the course so it was only played three of the possible eight rounds. I suspect the same fee may have been charged if Hyland could have been played.
"Soft" OB (water edge or paint lines) were used sparingly. All OB was typically hard edged like grass/concrete or flag boundaries around water hazards or grass areas. Paint lines are falling out of favor for OB marking on grass borders for both cost, time, maintenance and fuzziness. Ball golf uses stakes but those are tougher to permanently use on disc golf courses due to vandalism.
Just a reminder that what's included in the player packs is directly related to what the manufacturers wish to provide and has little to do with the tournament hosts. Several sponsors prefer doing things like "win your card, win a disc" or supporting the event in other ways or not at all if it's not in their budget or marketing plans that year.
Mike Snelson was the TD.
Thanks for all your hard work Chuck!
blackcatsmith
Double Eagle Member
Cue the Ron Burgundy GIF. "Scotch"
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2008
- Messages
- 4,039
Am Worlds St Paul Review
So I got back from Am Worlds yesterday. I didn't play my best, I kind of lost my ability to throw a descent upshot midway round 2...shrug. But I was very happy with my putting, I slammed it home all week with only about a dozen missed circle putts, getting from drive to circle was the hard part though....lol. Anyways I wanted to share my thoughts on the experience.
Players Package:
The easiest way to sum up the players package at this years worlds is just laughter. It was pathetic to be honest, especially considering no payout.
A cheap water bottle
A Innova shopping bag.....like the reusable ones at the grocery store.
Discraft Buzzz OS
Innova Gstar Teebird w/ sweet stamp
Millennium JLS
UB Handy Candy Putter.....
DGA Torrent/Squall
Am Worlds mini
Towel
Stickers
Coupons
Free shirt from Discraft coupon
Other random things
I have only ever competed in 1 other worlds, which was Milwaukee. We basically got a similar deal but instead of a lame ass shopping bag we got a sweet mini Revolution bag and not only that but we also got a payout at that worlds. I know that last year the Ranger bags were a mistake, but even if it had been the small bag as intended the players pack was still sweet.
If you are not going to do a payout that's fine, I don't agree but I accept it. However, the players pack and the player amenities better be lavish. The players pack honestly was lacking, it felt like any quality A tiers pack, except I paid more both in entry fee and time off work. But even such I did not let this damper my spirits, and hoped that the player amenities would shine through.
We did get some random CTP/TOC prizes. But a lot of the value of the players packs seemed to be donated stuff not paid for.
Player Amenities:
Here they score another PATHETIC. The water situations at the courses was infuriating. First off, I understand that Minnesota or whatever has some law that says you have to clean the water coolers out everyday, but I find it abysmal that they used that as their justification for creating tons of plastic trash with over priced bottled water that was warm from the beginning. Shouldn't you be washing them everyday anyway? It takes all of 1 minute.
Now more about these plastic bottles, often placed in the sun, and usually no attempt to put them in spots that people would cross often. I feel like a huge portion of our fees went to these bottles, which is a total waste of money, and the reasoning is laziness, plain and simple.
I really feel cheated in this department.
Courses:
A few issues here, too many courses with shared/criss-crossing fairways. Even the final 9 was so poorly organized that groups were interfering with each other. I've played probably 90% of the courses in that area, and there was many better choices without the player endangerment.
A note to the Twin Cities DG Community, what the hell is up with all the broken glass on every course everywhere. You blame the kids who smash the bottles that you bring and leave on the course. Its 50/50 for whose at fault. Stopping bringing the bottles and get some people out there to pick that glass up. Its shameful.
Oakwood, why wasn't the grass mowed? It was 6+ inches long.
Organization:
Players on the first day of check in didn't receive their water bottle.
If you didn't have a smart phone or access to a computer you were essentially completely gimped from finding out any information. I understand that most people have become very tech savvy but you cannot except/demand that of everyone.
One thing I have always felt should be a must for big events like this, each round should start off with a quick players meeting. Make sure no one has any questions about the rules/etc. I have attended several multi day tournaments, and the ones that go smoothest are the ones that do this. It literally takes about 5 minutes.
Schedule:
The afternoon tee times were not thought out well whatsoever. Advanced often had 3 hours between rounds. After the great shuffle that was extended by another half hour (2:30 tee time??). On the day of the flymart I missed the first hour because I didn't even get back to our place until it ad already started. 2:00 tee time and a 6:00 flymart. I missed out on some events because I wanted to wash the sweat off, oh well.
Staff:
Way understaffed. Plain and simple. No spotters often. thank you to those who did come spot! Course TD's were often the only ones there. All of A Pool could have been potentially stroked on the first day for starting on the wrong hole, though I believe the TD ok'd it.
There needs to be some kind of incentive for people to volunteer to come help. I remember in Milwaukee even holes that didn't need spotters had spotters. Maybe there is more at work locally then what I know about.
The TD himself was not very reachable at all. The Milwaukee worlds I remembered being asked who I was traveling with so at least for the start we could be in the same pool to figure out travel arrangements after the shuffle. I sent 2 emails to the TD without ever receiving a response. Sadly we ended up in 2 different pools from the beginning and had to take 2 cars. It was probably better that we did anyway but it would have been nice to be able to manage a single car.
Other Players:
I had great groups all weekend. Not a single card was unpleasant. And that was probably the highlight of the tournament for me.
However, players need to be more aware of groups outside of their own. All to often I saw groups fiddling with their bags and talking loud with someone 20-30ft from them in another group trying to putt. Lots of talking while people were on the tee. It's sad when spectators are being more courteous than other players.
Value:
Though I had a lot of fun, I don't think I will attend another worlds after this as a competitor. I can attend better run tournaments more locally, with payout and stellar players packs. The payout to me really drives the competitive spirit, if by round 2 or 3 you are statistically out of the Final 4, what incentive do you have? To make the "Sweet 16%" and get a disc with a sticker on it? If the player pack only is going to be the new deal, then it has to be done right.
Other Thoughts:
I have said this many times, and this experience only solidifies my personal opinion, but, the PDGA themselves should have their own staff run and organize all Majors and NT's. There is too much inconsistency in the quality. I know there are TD's out there that rock it for their perspective tournament, but often other TD's drop the ball hard. The PDGA as a professional organization should be running a professional tournament. There is also the problem with local political BS, a TD with a bad rap is going to have a hard time getting volunteers. I don't forsee the PDGA having to deal with that issue.
So I got back from Am Worlds yesterday. I didn't play my best, I kind of lost my ability to throw a descent upshot midway round 2...shrug. But I was very happy with my putting, I slammed it home all week with only about a dozen missed circle putts, getting from drive to circle was the hard part though....lol. Anyways I wanted to share my thoughts on the experience.
Players Package:
The easiest way to sum up the players package at this years worlds is just laughter. It was pathetic to be honest, especially considering no payout.
A cheap water bottle
A Innova shopping bag.....like the reusable ones at the grocery store.
Discraft Buzzz OS
Innova Gstar Teebird w/ sweet stamp
Millennium JLS
UB Handy Candy Putter.....
DGA Torrent/Squall
Am Worlds mini
Towel
Stickers
Coupons
Free shirt from Discraft coupon
Other random things
I have only ever competed in 1 other worlds, which was Milwaukee. We basically got a similar deal but instead of a lame ass shopping bag we got a sweet mini Revolution bag and not only that but we also got a payout at that worlds. I know that last year the Ranger bags were a mistake, but even if it had been the small bag as intended the players pack was still sweet.
If you are not going to do a payout that's fine, I don't agree but I accept it. However, the players pack and the player amenities better be lavish. The players pack honestly was lacking, it felt like any quality A tiers pack, except I paid more both in entry fee and time off work. But even such I did not let this damper my spirits, and hoped that the player amenities would shine through.
We did get some random CTP/TOC prizes. But a lot of the value of the players packs seemed to be donated stuff not paid for.
Player Amenities:
Here they score another PATHETIC. The water situations at the courses was infuriating. First off, I understand that Minnesota or whatever has some law that says you have to clean the water coolers out everyday, but I find it abysmal that they used that as their justification for creating tons of plastic trash with over priced bottled water that was warm from the beginning. Shouldn't you be washing them everyday anyway? It takes all of 1 minute.
Now more about these plastic bottles, often placed in the sun, and usually no attempt to put them in spots that people would cross often. I feel like a huge portion of our fees went to these bottles, which is a total waste of money, and the reasoning is laziness, plain and simple.
I really feel cheated in this department.
Courses:
A few issues here, too many courses with shared/criss-crossing fairways. Even the final 9 was so poorly organized that groups were interfering with each other. I've played probably 90% of the courses in that area, and there was many better choices without the player endangerment.
A note to the Twin Cities DG Community, what the hell is up with all the broken glass on every course everywhere. You blame the kids who smash the bottles that you bring and leave on the course. Its 50/50 for whose at fault. Stopping bringing the bottles and get some people out there to pick that glass up. Its shameful.
Oakwood, why wasn't the grass mowed? It was 6+ inches long.
Organization:
Players on the first day of check in didn't receive their water bottle.
If you didn't have a smart phone or access to a computer you were essentially completely gimped from finding out any information. I understand that most people have become very tech savvy but you cannot except/demand that of everyone.
One thing I have always felt should be a must for big events like this, each round should start off with a quick players meeting. Make sure no one has any questions about the rules/etc. I have attended several multi day tournaments, and the ones that go smoothest are the ones that do this. It literally takes about 5 minutes.
Schedule:
The afternoon tee times were not thought out well whatsoever. Advanced often had 3 hours between rounds. After the great shuffle that was extended by another half hour (2:30 tee time??). On the day of the flymart I missed the first hour because I didn't even get back to our place until it ad already started. 2:00 tee time and a 6:00 flymart. I missed out on some events because I wanted to wash the sweat off, oh well.
Staff:
Way understaffed. Plain and simple. No spotters often. thank you to those who did come spot! Course TD's were often the only ones there. All of A Pool could have been potentially stroked on the first day for starting on the wrong hole, though I believe the TD ok'd it.
There needs to be some kind of incentive for people to volunteer to come help. I remember in Milwaukee even holes that didn't need spotters had spotters. Maybe there is more at work locally then what I know about.
The TD himself was not very reachable at all. The Milwaukee worlds I remembered being asked who I was traveling with so at least for the start we could be in the same pool to figure out travel arrangements after the shuffle. I sent 2 emails to the TD without ever receiving a response. Sadly we ended up in 2 different pools from the beginning and had to take 2 cars. It was probably better that we did anyway but it would have been nice to be able to manage a single car.
Other Players:
I had great groups all weekend. Not a single card was unpleasant. And that was probably the highlight of the tournament for me.
However, players need to be more aware of groups outside of their own. All to often I saw groups fiddling with their bags and talking loud with someone 20-30ft from them in another group trying to putt. Lots of talking while people were on the tee. It's sad when spectators are being more courteous than other players.
Value:
Though I had a lot of fun, I don't think I will attend another worlds after this as a competitor. I can attend better run tournaments more locally, with payout and stellar players packs. The payout to me really drives the competitive spirit, if by round 2 or 3 you are statistically out of the Final 4, what incentive do you have? To make the "Sweet 16%" and get a disc with a sticker on it? If the player pack only is going to be the new deal, then it has to be done right.
Other Thoughts:
I have said this many times, and this experience only solidifies my personal opinion, but, the PDGA themselves should have their own staff run and organize all Majors and NT's. There is too much inconsistency in the quality. I know there are TD's out there that rock it for their perspective tournament, but often other TD's drop the ball hard. The PDGA as a professional organization should be running a professional tournament. There is also the problem with local political BS, a TD with a bad rap is going to have a hard time getting volunteers. I don't forsee the PDGA having to deal with that issue.
That is a very thorough review. I've heard both sides of the arguement on this year's Am Worlds. I'm still thinking I'll play in next years. Hopefully it is better organized, as that seems to be the central gripe.
I'd like to hear from those who played this year on how many are playing next year? I know a lot of people on here are on the cusp of going pro, so you don't count! Lol
I'd like to hear from those who played this year on how many are playing next year? I know a lot of people on here are on the cusp of going pro, so you don't count! Lol
I did not play this year but am thinking I might next year. I watched the final 9 in person and watch all week live (at work) on the internet. The reason I didn't play in my home state is because I think of AM Worlds as a vacation to try some of the best courses a state has to offer. I think I would enjoy playing in a different state and getting to play courses I never have before apposed to playing courses I can play whenever I want. I have never played any Michigan courses at all and it is close enough to MN to make the trip not too crazy.
Ripper
Double Eagle Member
5 discs that he can probably sell for the cost of the tourney entry fee and he calls it pathetic and laughs. lol This stuff just kills me.
They should have just handed out tshirts and had descent catering and incentive to staff members.
Considering the tournament cost about $150 to play, and the only disc that was worth at least $20 was the Buzzz OS, I don't think your statement has any validity. The player's pack was less than impressive, and considering that there was no payout, I'm not really sure where all of the entry fees went. Someone's pockets is my guess.
In my opinion, having a greater scoring spread is a lame excuse for poor design choices. That hole was ridiculous. Nobody liked it. 2b was cool, but not really necessary. I think the course should have been played in the original layout with either all blue or all red tees.
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Hopefully that money went to the local club, not any one individual.
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