2016 Am Worlds - Madison, Wi

[lyleoross]

We should then do the same with minorities and disabled, just use math. Offer resources based on their % of the population, but never use the math as evidence we have a problem growing certain demographics. The point is 17% is too small if the population is over 50% women, that is using math. So why not do more to make the sport more available to them. Lets just make the field of open advanced 576 put in 40 total women and go from there; that is 7%. I still think it is dumb to have 9 divisions under 4 registered. Last year 2 divisions were like that. The math is this: Last year v This year - Advanced Women 50/40, Advanced Master Women 19/11, Junior 1 Boys 40/35, girls 7/3, JIIB 32/27, JIIG 9/3, J III B, 16/12, J IV B, 6/2. Every growth division is down. If you dont see the futility in offering up a world title in 9 divisions that have 4 or less, especially when players are out there that would expand those cards, I can't help you. Why so many comments on what happened in the past! Isnt the point of "growth" to be better than what was in the past, to do more, grow more? I would have not liked to be part of the 2012 World championship if it strove to be as good as events 4-5 years prior.

The best players in the world shouldnt have a 10 minute sign up window. A junior during the time of SAT's and final exams and graduation shouldnt be forced to sign up for 4 spots from 12:00 to 12:10AM that is ludacris, whether it is the PDGA's issue or the LOC.

You're still reaching. What the numbers say is that for every woman who is disappointed there is an equivalency in males relative to participation in the sport. Title 11 did a lot to open youth sports to girls, and we have a ways to go, but punishing others for a false equivalency doesn't fix it. If 1,000 women play, and 1,000 men, and they hold more for men, you have an argument, and a good one. Even if you can show me that there is a non equivalency in the numbers on the wait list, I'll grant your argument some merit, but right now you're fishing.

No one doubts our society is racist and sexist. No one, with brains, argues that we don't need affirmative action (hate comments start now) but you're suggesting this isn't fair, when the event has served a larger proportion of playing women than men and I disagree with that position.

 

[lyleoross]

BTW - 1978

Just a reminder, again, this isn't a merit based competition. I wrote about that upstream. If you want it to be, and that is what you sometimes argue, then make a proposal to the PDGA. Right now the event meets their defining characteristics for the event. That's what they're supposed to do. If you want something else then run on your ownsies or lobby the PDGA to redefine. Honestly, they're much more reasonable than the carping that goes on here.

 

[1978]

This thread is about the 2016 Am Worlds. Regardless of whether the lower number was defined by the PDGA or the organizers of the event. I haven't made a distinction, just a point that lowering the numbers and making the ability to sign up for the event harder came as a surprise to many. The organizing group has taken it upon itself to become offended by the sentiment felt by many. My opinion isn't unique on this topic; it appears to be a common one. Second point relative to your comment above this, is that people from every division are disappointed, that's a credit to you that they want to go to Madison, take it as such. The process and scale of the event appear to be short sighted though to many outsiders. Regardless of how you add it up, there are less available spots for the same amount of divisions. Advanced men hold steady with 4 full fields, while everyone else gets cut is the appearance.

My argument is that this is the WORLD championships and there should be some organization for registering, at least for the initial sign ins. Many tournaments do this including Am Nats. This is the premier event. The PDGA should understand by now what the popularity of the World championships and adjust accordingly. We dealt with this in 2012, but at that time it was pro's that waited weeks to sign up , in this case people only had just a few minutes.

 

[Stardoggy]

I think it has as much to do with a dearth of quality bids as anything else.

News flash: not that many people want to deal with the headaches that go with such a big tournament that basically makes no money.

 

[lyleoross]

This thread is about the 2016 Am Worlds. Regardless of whether the lower number was defined by the PDGA or the organizers of the event. I haven't made a distinction, just a point that lowering the numbers and making the ability to sign up for the event harder came as a surprise to many. The organizing group has taken it upon itself to become offended by the sentiment felt by many. My opinion isn't unique on this topic; it appears to be a common one. Second point relative to your comment above this, is that people from every division are disappointed, that's a credit to you that they want to go to Madison, take it as such. The process and scale of the event appear to be short sighted though to many outsiders. Regardless of how you add it up, there are less available spots for the same amount of divisions. Advanced men hold steady with 4 full fields, while everyone else gets cut is the appearance.

My argument is that this is the WORLD championships and there should be some organization for registering, at least for the initial sign ins. Many tournaments do this including Am Nats. This is the premier event. The PDGA should understand by now what the popularity of the World championships and adjust accordingly. We dealt with this in 2012, but at that time it was pro's that waited weeks to sign up , in this case people only had just a few minutes.

You raise a good point in that, if the PDGA doesn't view this a true world championship, then they aught to change the name. Their documentation clearly lays out the event as a non-world championship, but the name is what it is.

Star doggy is correct, and others have said this, bids are an issue. If you make a World Championships, and this event (not sure how you would sell it) then how do you accommodate both? And would you have the turn out for this event if you changed the name?

 

[kcwaldo]

Players Packs

If they would stop with the players packs for an event that clearly needs little in the way of a players pack, maybe they could afford to pay for needful expenses and maybe make a little money.

 

[lyleoross]

If they would stop with the players packs for an event that clearly needs little in the way of a players pack, maybe they could afford to pay for needful expenses and maybe make a little money.

I see a poll on the value of player packs at this event in your future.

 

[ERicJ]

You are totally discounting and ignoring the fact that this worlds is basically advanced men/masters centric.

Have you looked at the PDGA demographics?
http://www.pdga.com/files/2015_disc_golf_and_pdga_demographics.pdf

There are 20+ girls on the waitlist for advanced women, and way too many divisions with only 2-3 players. That is NOT an inclusive Worlds event, and it does not support the growth of the sport regardless of if it was planned 2 months ago or 20 years ago. A field of 244 advanced men, vs a field of 40 women with a large wait list. where do the 100-150 players come from? What a question. They are already on your wait lists.

Please re-read the post you quoted.

Anyways, running the event is a boat load of work. Sorry to complain before the event starts. I know tons of people not advanced men or masters really bummed at what feels like a small field.

The Male divisions got cut down more this year (vs. 2015) than the Female or Juniors. The number of Female and Junior spots allocated are still disproportionately higher than their membership percentage would dictate.

* Note that in 2015 some Junior divisions were combined for division caps so the per division numbers in the chart are approximate but the totals are basically accurate.

 

[puttlikeablowfly]

EricJ gave a breakdown of this year vs last, but as part of my original research into pool configs, I took the last 10 years of data, based on actual participation, not the number of originally available slots. Here are some of the highlights of how our totals compare with the averages of the previous five years, which included two larger events (Kalamazoo '15 and Charlotte '12); two smaller events (Emporia '13 and Rochester '11), and one in the middle (Twin Cities '14):

Group: 5-year-avg vs. 2016
Men: 470 vs. 400
MA1: 251 vs 216
Men>=40: 219 vs. 184
Women: 59 vs. 64
Junior Boys: 68 vs. 88
Junior Girls: 12 vs. 24
Total: 610 vs. 576

I think it is readily apparent that we did our best to minimize the impacts on the women's and junior fields given the constraints on overall capacity. Can you imagine what some of the divisions sizes would have been if we gave MA1 a full four pools (288 players) and then spread the other 288 spots over the other 21 (!!) divisions?

 

[smarkquart]

Thought a few days would cool me off, but I am still miffed. I have read everything that has been posted on here. It really is not a matter of the size of the tournament. Clearly it is what it is. Without temp courses created and having participants drive a little further out, you cannot make the tournament any bigger. I get that. Even if it did occur, I also get that it could lower the quality of the tournament. As a player, a member of a league, and as a parent in Scouting, I was asked on numerous occasions in 2014 to help organize volunteers, and all of it almost at the last second. While the 2014 was essentially in my backyard and maybe I am a little biased about the experience, but I have to say that it was likely an underwhelming experience for everyone involved. I get the whole argument of making this year's a quality experience. What still stings, however, is the overall registration process and the risk that is being taken with quality experience versus quality play; they can co-exist, but they are not synonymous. One concerns the whole tournament, which includes mostly the down time, the other concerns the actual golfing itself.

As much as I believe I should have been in because of past performance and points earned, I am trying to temper all of this against that it would have to be insulting to someone who did get in to say to them that I was more deserving of their spot than they were. I realize that is not fair to them; so, I am keeping my grumblings to the process in general. With that said, I moved up two spots on the waiting list today.

 

[papparoc]

Looking for a mixed doubles partner for my son.

 

[Pbmercil]

Anybody have any good campground recommendations? I'll be tent and/or hammocking it.

 

[Horsman]

Anybody have any good campground recommendations? I'll be tent and/or hammocking it.

Tokken creek is nice for camping. Has a nice area with nice bathrooms and showers.

 

[Oldstump]

Token Creek

We made Token Creek Reservations as well.. not many spots left..

 

[puttlikeablowfly]

There is also camping at Lake Farm County Park, which is where the Capital Springs DGC is located. Most of the sites are setup for RVs / trailers, but there are more than a dozen regular sites, all close to the bathrooms and showers. Babcock County Park is across Lake Waubesa from Lake Farm, and has a couple dozen sites. Mendota County Park in Middleton is right in the immediate metro area, but is not really close to any of the courses used or other activity centers for the tournament. Still, it's 15-25 minutes from four of the five courses and the host hotel, but Bird's Ruins is about 40 minutes away. Lake Kegonsa State Park is the closest state park with camping, but is just outside the urban area (to the southeast). Like Mendota, you wouldn't be really close to any course, but all are between about 20 and 30 minutes away.

The closest private campgrounds I'm aware of are the KOA in DeForest (just north of Madison but super convenient to the Interstate), and a couple in Stoughton (south of Madison): Badgerland Campground (very close to Lake Kegonsa State Park) and Viking Village (a few miles south of Badgerland, but it is for camping trailer / RVs only ... can only have a tent in conjunction with a trailer / RV).

 

[ScottyLove]

I'm camping at Babcock as each site is 100% shaded!!! Small campground, so let's fill it with disc golfers!

 

[araytx]

This thread is about the 2016 Am Worlds. Regardless of whether the lower number was defined by the PDGA or the organizers of the event. I haven't made a distinction, just a point that lowering the numbers and making the ability to sign up for the event harder came as a surprise to many. The organizing group has taken it upon itself to become offended by the sentiment felt by many. My opinion isn't unique on this topic; it appears to be a common one. Second point relative to your comment above this, is that people from every division are disappointed, that's a credit to you that they want to go to Madison, take it as such. The process and scale of the event appear to be short sighted though to many outsiders. Regardless of how you add it up, there are less available spots for the same amount of divisions. Advanced men hold steady with 4 full fields, while everyone else gets cut is the appearance.

My argument is that this is the WORLD championships and there should be some organization for registering, at least for the initial sign ins. Many tournaments do this including Am Nats. This is the premier event. The PDGA should understand by now what the popularity of the World championships and adjust accordingly. We dealt with this in 2012, but at that time it was pro's that waited weeks to sign up , in this case people only had just a few minutes.

I guess, Mark, that I don't see it a) coming as a surprise to many [because everyone who was on the site on the Thursday night previous when it crashed knew or should have known the demand, and everyone who received an invite knew exactly how many spots there were available]; or b) the PDGA making it harder to sign up [the sign up process is the exact same one as used in 2015.]

I am guessing that you are intimating something else to make your point. There are two kinds of "it's not fair" arguments that people make -- those wherein some people received a different/more/insider information from everyone else; and those where the outcome wasn't quite what I thought it should be. I am assuming which angle you are coming at it from.

 

[eagleaspen]

Me and a friend are 17 coming down from Washington state for Junior Worlds, and are looking for a place to stay in Madison. We would pitch in for a group campsite, or we can just set up a camp in someone's backyard. We're also looking for someone to carpool with for the tournament. We are trying to plan a our trip as soon as possible, so quick responses are appreciated. Thanks

 

[ERicJ]

Glide and/or puttlikeablowfly, what's the pay-to-play situation with regard to tourney rounds and Sat/Sun/Mon practice rounds? Are players expected to pay or is there a "tourney exemption" for the week?

 

[klay]

Got this reply when I asked the same question back at the end of April on the Disc Golf Scene page:

Seth Johnson April 24 at 9:33am
Steve, our intent is for participants to not have to pay to practice Sat - Mon. We are still working with the parks departments on the best way to handle that, especially since player check-in doesn't start until Sunday. At this time, the courses will likely be open to the public on those days, but at a minimum, we will strongly encourage locals to play other area courses.